ElishaElijah
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You can probably check the Mayo Clinic, compare what bitterness and unforgiveness, or joy and forgiveness, how each affect the body and mental health.
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By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...
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SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Agreed.
Yep. This is well documented. The old classic example of Finneas Gage comes to mind ..
My grandmother also comes to mind. After she had a stroke she had all kinds of weird hallucinations ... she thought this smiley face balloon someone got her was a human head floating around above her bed! She was terrified by it. She also started cursing like crazy when I'd never heard her say a bad word in my entire life, up until that point. Weird stuff.
And this is where we get into pure speculation, not in evidence.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
I've found no studies matching the description given.
How does one even measure "bitterness" or "unforgiveness," exactly?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is correct, because there is no evidence that demonstrates that the soul exists, since the soul is a mystery.
I am fine with mysteries as I don't need to know what I cannot ever know.
“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 158-159
“Verily I say, the human soul is, in its essence, one of the signs of God, a mystery among His mysteries. It is one of the mighty signs of the Almighty, the harbinger that proclaimeth the reality of all the worlds of God. Within it lieth concealed that which the world is now utterly incapable of apprehending.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 160
ElishaElijah
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Ask Mayo Clinic… Otherwise ask yourself, you’re telling me you can’t determine what’s better for your health and mental wellness?
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SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
I did. They don't have any studies showing that "when you are holding bitterness, it creates dark spots on your brains and what looks like leaves on the nerve endings eventual leave."
I have asked myself, and determined that assertion doesn't even make sense to begin with.
Is it okay with you if I ask the guy who made the claim to show something backing up that claim? Do I have your permission?
No, you only quoted Paul, and as I pointed out, Paul is repeating a notion from midrash that has no foundation in the Tanakh.
Read the Genesis account of the Garden of Eden carefully. You'll find that Paul's claim has no basis whatsoever ─ no mention of "sin" or of a "fall" anywhere. As for death entering the world, death was part of the system from the very start, as is made clear by the inclusion in the Garden of the Tree of Life ─ and as you know, because God expressly states it at Genesis 3:22-23, the reason God expelled Adam and Eve from the Garden was to prevent them from eating of the Tree of Life and becoming immortal like [him].
Please quote me the part of the Tanakh that says what Paul says. I'll be grateful to you because I'll have learnt something.
As for getting messages from God, Paul had mental problems which he frankly mentions, saw visions, suffered at least one major collapse.
And it remains the fact that Paul's claim is directly contradicted by Ezekiel 18, not least verse 20:
20 The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
That is, sin can't be inherited, hence there can't be "original sin" ─ nor does the Tanakh ever mention "original sin" or a fall of man or sin causing death to enter the world. Don't take my word for it ─ read the Garden story in Genesis 2 and 3.
ElishaElijah
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Paul’s letters are Scripture and inspired by the Holy Spirit.
The sin nature is inherited through Adam, that’s why Jesus Christ born of a virgin by the Holy Spirit could redeem us from the curse of the law.
The prophets spoke about that:
”And I will give them one heart, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh,“
Ezekiel 11:19 ESV
”And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.“
Ezekiel 36:26 ESV
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The bible says nothing of the kind. That's some human's view being wished on the text.
What sin nature? Have you not by now carefully re-read Genesis 2 and 3?
And as I showed you, according to the Tanakh, sin can't be inherited, hence 'original sin' is impossible.
Additionally, and quite separately from that, the idea that the child must hang for its remote ancestor's alleged crimes is absurd, unjust, arbitrary, disgusting.
Only the Jesus of Matthew and the Jesus of Luke were said to be born of a virgin.
The Jesus of Mark was an ordinary Jew until God adopted him as [his] son the same way [he]'d adopted David in Psalm 2:7.
The Jesus of Paul and the Jesus of John are never said to be born of a virgin, an inexplicable omission if the claim were thought historical. Instead their parentages are never explained. Those two, unlike the synoptic Jesuses, pre-existed in heaven with God and created the material universe (you'll recognize the gnostic demiurge in that). As to how they came to earth, we have to guess. Since the claim is made that they were descended from David, I assume they respectively entered the zygote of a Jewish couple at the moment of conception, but of course that's entirely guesswork. (Not guesswork about history, of course, but guesswork as to what those authors might have written if pressed on the topic.)
ElishaElijah
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”All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.“
Isaiah 53:6 NKJV
Everyone has sinned except Jesus, so all you show me is you don’t know what you’re talking about.
”For since the beginning of the world Men have not heard nor perceived by the ear, Nor has the eye seen any God besides You, Who acts for the one who waits for Him. You meet him who rejoices and does righteousness, Who remembers You in Your ways. You are indeed angry, for we have sinned— In these ways we continue; And we need to be saved. But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away. And there is no one who calls on Your name, Who stirs himself up to take hold of You; For You have hidden Your face from us, And have consumed us because of our iniquities.“
Isaiah 64:4-7 NKJV
If he is wrong, then you should correct him.
I suffer from sleep apnea. Before I was diagnosed, I was becoming someone I didn't even recognize. Apparently, massive sleep deprivation isn't good for you and alters your personality.
ElishaElijah
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It’s better if people look up things for themselves.
Sometimes people need help. Go ahead.
You quote all sorts of Bible verses whether anyone asks or not. Should be a piece of cake to help someone out like that. I know you can do it.
Worse than now??? ...... WoW!!!
ElishaElijah
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I do post verses sometimes with little or no commentary because the Scripture speaks for itself.
ElishaElijah
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You don’t know how to use Google? Type in Biblical Manuscripts?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not have massive sleep deprivation but when I am sleep deprived even for a day or two you don't really want to be around me.
Not even the cats want to be around me, I am so irritable.
I have been trying to compensate for the last two days so I can do my work but I feel as if I am walking a tightrope to prevent making mistakes since my short term memory is so bad when I am tired.
So, then you should have no trouble showing him that there are original manuscripts of the Bible.
You answer questions that no one even asks, so why not show us.
Maybe I want to know and I'm just being coy.