Jesus Prayed

[YoursTrue]

No, Moses did not write the Torah -- it has at least four (or more) different authors. However, the law does indeed exist, and so there would be an original person who wrote it up, and we can call that person Moses.

Some things are clearly legend. Other things are clearly history. And many things we cannot be sure of. It doesn't really matter. What matters is the lessons these stories teach.

OK, now that we have that settled as far as your beliefs are concerned, what are the lessons?

 

[YoursTrue]

It would help if you would only ask the same question once. I just answered this in your other post.

So do you believe the Law was given as written and taken down from Mt. Sinai by Moses on stone tablets, or do you believe that was a story based as a myth, too, and didn't really happen as recorded in the Torah? Thank you, by the way, for answering these questions.

 

[YoursTrue]

Are you aware of this? These are the 13 principles of Jewish faith detailed by Rambam. It's a good list. Notice, there is no requiement for biblical literalism on this list. Arguably, the 3rd principle prohibits it since there are times when Jehovah is described in human terms, in poetic language. But Jehovah is not corporeal. We agree on this, correct?

If Jehovah is not corporeal, then that means that there *must* be occasions when the scripture is read non-literally.

1. Belief in the existence of the Creator, who is perfect in every manner of existence and is the Primary Cause of all that exists.

2. The belief in G‑d's absolute and unparalleled unity.

3. The belief in G‑d's non-corporeality, nor that He will be affected by any physical occurrences, such as movement, or rest, or dwelling.

4. The belief in G‑d's eternity.

5. The imperative to worship G‑d exclusively and no foreign false gods.

6. The belief that G‑d communicates with man through prophecy.

7. The belief in the primacy of the prophecy of Moses our teacher.

8. The belief in the divine origin of the Torah.

9. The belief in the immutability of the Torah.

10. The belief in G‑d's omniscience and providence.

11. The belief in divine reward and retribution.

12. The belief in the arrival of the Messiah and the messianic era."

13. The belief in the resurrection of the dead.

I'd like to address the 1st one of Rambam's tenets. (Maimonides) Do you believe as he expressed, "in the existence of the Creator, who is perfect in every manner of existence and is the Primary Cause of all that exists"? Expressly, since some of us are discussing the theory of evolution, that there is (exists) a Creator who is the Primary Cause of all that exists.

 

[dybmh]

I'd like to address the 1st one of Rambam's tenets. (Maimonides) Do you believe as he expressed, "in the existence of the Creator, who is perfect in every manner of existence and is the Primary Cause of all that exists"? Expressly, since some of us are discussing the theory of evolution, that there is (exists) a Creator who is the Primary Cause of all that exists.

Yes, I believe whole heartedly that Jehovah is the solitary creator who is perfect and complete in every manner.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, I believe whole heartedly that Jehovah is the solitary creator who is perfect and complete in every manner.

Thanks for your answer. May I ask why you use the name of God because some if not most Jews do not utter God's name because they believe it is so holy to come from human lips. Which is why when it is read from the Hebrew it is said, I think, as the Hebrew word for Lord or adonai rather than Yahweh or Jehovah as you mentioned.
Do you believe then the recounting in Genesis of creation?

 

[dybmh]

Thanks for your answer. May I ask why you use the name of God because some if not most Jews do not utter God's name because they believe it is so holy to come from human lips. Which is why when it is read from the Hebrew it is said, I think, as the Hebrew word for Lord or adonai rather than Yahweh or Jehovah as you mentioned.

Sure, It's a little complicated, but I'll try to explain.

Just speaking for myself, I think the most important thing when speaking on this forum is clarity. People here believe in many different gods and god concepts. When I make a proclamation of faith to a Jehovah's witness, or perhaps I'm discussing scripture with a Jehovah's witness, I want to be clear we are talking about the same God.

Also, using a veiled version of God's name, in my opinion, may appear haughty as opposed to humble. I don't want someone to think, "Oh look at him, he thinks he's so holy, and so different, and better than us, he won't use God's name in our presence."

The prohibtion, technically, is not to use God's name in vain, and I don't think using God's name on the forum is a transgression.

Also, do I really know that this is God's name and how it's pronounced? No.

Lastly, I'm inspired by Elijah's offering, 1 Kings 18:36.

This is a liberal view, perhaps it's incorrect. But that's the answer to your question.

Do you believe then the recounting in Genesis of creation?

Simple answer, imv, Gen 1,2,3 are all happening in God's mind ( for lack of a better word ). It is describing a spiritual creation, not a material creation. The material creation happened, but simply isn't recorded in scripture.

 

[RabbiO]

@Eli G -

This forum community has rules, rules that, among other things, guide how we are supposed to interact with one another. You don’t seem to have read them. I have.

Those rules constrain me in the manner to which I can respond to a non-Jew’s ignorant and arrogant attacks on Jews who do not meet the expectations of that non-Jew as to who and what a Jew is or should be.

Right now I can’t think of a way to do it, but if I do I’ll get back to you.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Simple answer, imv, Gen 1,2,3 are all happening in God's mind ( for lack of a better word ). It is describing a spiritual creation, not a material creation. The material creation happened, but simply isn't recorded in scripture.

I think I understand what you mean..
..such as Eve being made from "Adam's rib" is in a figurative sense .. right?

 

[YoursTrue]

Sure, It's a little complicated, but I'll try to explain.

Just speaking for myself, I think the most important thing when speaking on this forum is clarity. People here believe in many different gods and god concepts. When I make a proclamation of faith to a Jehovah's witness, or perhaps I'm discussing scripture with a Jehovah's witness, I want to be clear we are talking about the same God.

Also, using a veiled version of God's name, in my opinion, may appear haughty as opposed to humble. I don't want someone to think, "Oh look at him, he thinks he's so holy, and so different, and better than us, he won't use God's name in our presence."

The prohibtion, technically, is not to use God's name in vain, and I don't think using God's name on the forum is a transgression.

Also, do I really know that this is God's name and how it's pronounced? No.

Lastly, I'm inspired by Elijah's offering, 1 Kings 18:36.

This is a liberal view, perhaps it's incorrect. But that's the answer to your question.


Simple answer, imv, Gen 1,2,3 are all happening in God's mind ( for lack of a better word ). It is describing a spiritual creation, not a material creation. The material creation happened, but simply isn't recorded in scripture.

I see. Thank you for your response. I believe that many would not say or know the Name, even though Psalm 83 verse 18 says that God wants people to know His name.
As I have been studying the Bible with people, they often do not know that the tetragrammaton, or the 4 Hebrew letters signifying God's distinct and personal name, has been covered up in many translations with the word Lord (using the ord in small capital letters).

 

[YoursTrue]

Sure, It's a little complicated, but I'll try to explain.

Just speaking for myself, I think the most important thing when speaking on this forum is clarity. People here believe in many different gods and god concepts. When I make a proclamation of faith to a Jehovah's witness, or perhaps I'm discussing scripture with a Jehovah's witness, I want to be clear we are talking about the same God.

Also, using a veiled version of God's name, in my opinion, may appear haughty as opposed to humble. I don't want someone to think, "Oh look at him, he thinks he's so holy, and so different, and better than us, he won't use God's name in our presence."

The prohibtion, technically, is not to use God's name in vain, and I don't think using God's name on the forum is a transgression.

Also, do I really know that this is God's name and how it's pronounced? No.

Lastly, I'm inspired by Elijah's offering, 1 Kings 18:36.

This is a liberal view, perhaps it's incorrect. But that's the answer to your question.


Simple answer, imv, Gen 1,2,3 are all happening in God's mind ( for lack of a better word ). It is describing a spiritual creation, not a material creation. The material creation happened, but simply isn't recorded in scripture.

Hello, dybmh. About the creation accouint, I have been thinking about it a lot. And the way it is described in the book of Genesis is fantastic because while I know the Bible is not a science book, I am happy to see how Moses described the order and manner of God Almighty's setting up the environment for life to thrive on the earth. Thank you. (P.S. What I also find fantastic is how He centered His relationship with mankind on the Jews in general although yes, I believe He reaches out to as many as possible, certainly including non-Jews.)

 

[YoursTrue]

Sure, It's a little complicated, but I'll try to explain.

Just speaking for myself, I think the most important thing when speaking on this forum is clarity. People here believe in many different gods and god concepts. When I make a proclamation of faith to a Jehovah's witness, or perhaps I'm discussing scripture with a Jehovah's witness, I want to be clear we are talking about the same God.

Also, using a veiled version of God's name, in my opinion, may appear haughty as opposed to humble. I don't want someone to think, "Oh look at him, he thinks he's so holy, and so different, and better than us, he won't use God's name in our presence."

The prohibtion, technically, is not to use God's name in vain, and I don't think using God's name on the forum is a transgression.

Also, do I really know that this is God's name and how it's pronounced? No.

Lastly, I'm inspired by Elijah's offering, 1 Kings 18:36.

This is a liberal view, perhaps it's incorrect. But that's the answer to your question.


Simple answer, imv, Gen 1,2,3 are all happening in God's mind ( for lack of a better word ). It is describing a spiritual creation, not a material creation. The material creation happened, but simply isn't recorded in scripture.

I looked up 1 Kings 18:36. What a beautiful statement of the prophet Elijah. thank you for sharing that.

 

[dybmh]

I think I understand what you mean..
..such as Eve being made from "Adam's rib" is in a figurative sense .. right?

Well, both yes and no. Figurative, yes, in that there is a lot of detail happening behind the story that's not said. That said, I think each word accurately describes the intention and will of the author, God.

Regarding the rib, was it really a rib? My preferred translation has it as Adam's side.

Jastrow, עֲלַע

 

[dybmh]

I see. Thank you for your response. I believe that many would not say or know the Name, even though Psalm 83 verse 18 says that God wants people to know His name.
As I have been studying the Bible with people, they often do not know that the tetragrammaton, or the 4 Hebrew letters signifying God's distinct and personal name, has been covered up in many translations with the word Lord (using the ord in small capital letters).

As usual, I can see both sides of it. There's both pros and cons to publicizing it.

I think there's plenty of support for the idea that God's reputation and station should be publicisized. But, are there any other verses with this same imperative about knowing God's name? That specific psalm comes from Asaph, no one really knows who that it is.

 

[dybmh]

Hello, dybmh. About the creation accouint, I have been thinking about it a lot. And the way it is described in the book of Genesis is fantastic because while I know the Bible is not a science book, I am happy to see how Moses described the order and manner of God Almighty's setting up the environment for life to thrive on the earth. Thank you. (P.S. What I also find fantastic is how He centered His relationship with mankind on the Jews in general although yes, I believe He reaches out to as many as possible, certainly including non-Jews.)

Yes, I agree. And I expect that others have been contacted by God Almighty in other ways, and the Torah is just one of potentially many different revelations to humanity throughout history.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

OK, now that we have that settled as far as your beliefs are concerned, what are the lessons?

For example, the story of the Garden of Eden teaches us that human beings have become morally sentient, and this consciousness puts us out of harmony with ourselves, with each other, with nature, and with God.

 

[dybmh]

For example, the story of the Garden of Eden teaches us that human beings have become morally sentient, and this consciousness puts us out of harmony with ourselves, with each other, with nature, and with God.

Out of harmony with God?

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, what if he puts forth his hand, and takes also from the tree of life, and eats, and lives forever;​

 

[Sand Dancer]

Yes, but if a person doesn't believe what Moses wrote, yet claims to be genetically or religiously a Jew, maybe you know or don't know the old Cole Porter song -- "Anything Goes..." Now genetics doesn't really do it for several reasons. Because a person can claim to come from a Jewish lineage and not believe in God or what is written to and for the Jews. The historical documentary in the Bible is very, very interesting.

Marcus Borg said, "Myth is stories about the way things never were, but always are." What good is religion if it doesn't teach us about humanity and how to be a better person?

 

[River Sea]

Religion teaches to love and respect life. But over time it deteriorates and man made doctrines corrupt its purity. So in the Gita Krishna says He returns from time to time to renew religion. In this day the things you mention are being done away with.

@loverofhumanity

• What does the word "Gita" mean? Could you please tell me more about the word "Gita"?

• Have you ever observed Krishna reincarnate as Moses (Mosheh ben-Amram Moses), as you mention in your post "Gita Krishna says He returns from time to time to renew religion"? Could you please provide me with further information about returning?

• Was Moses a king or a messiah? Was Moses reincarnated as Jesus?

• Can females be messiahs, and can the queen perform the same functions as the religion's king David, or can't she due to no seed being passed on? However, the Greeks altered Jewish law, which caused Jews to be passed down through women and no longer through seed.

• Why did Jesus take on the abilities of animals when only animals could please God? How could God be pleased if animals were slain by draining their blood without breaking bones? Is God's rage so dysfunctional that such abuse is required?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Out of harmony with God?

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, what if he puts forth his hand, and takes also from the tree of life, and eats, and lives forever;​

Yes, when we choose to sin, we are not in harmony with God.

 

[YoursTrue]

As usual, I can see both sides of it. There's both pros and cons to publicizing it.

I think there's plenty of support for the idea that God's reputation and station should be publicisized. But, are there any other verses with this same imperative about knowing God's name? That specific psalm comes from Asaph, no one really knows who that it is.

The Tetragrammaton is written thousands of times in the Hebrew scriptures, but I can see your point. His Name is so divine, so over every other name, that to misuse it would not be good, and could be a horrible travesty.