For the dismally ignorant

[ChristineM]

I'd rather think this is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. By my signature, it is our belief that God made each person special and want to use each vessel to go beyond their natural potential into the arena of possibilities as we conveniently connect with Him.

You are welcome to your belief but would it stand as evidence in court?

 

[Kenny]

You are welcome to your belief but would it stand as evidence in court?

Depends on the court?

 

[ChristineM]

Depends on the court?

Truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, court of law

 

[Kenny]

Truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, court of law

That would be Heaven's Court which, in light of my signature, will the the Supreme Supreme Court.

Of course, others will have different viewpoints but equally non-verifiable until we die.

 

[ChristineM]

That would be Heaven's Court which, in light of my signature, will the the Supreme Supreme Court.

Of course, others will have different viewpoints but equally non-verifiable until we die.

And I'm betting you have no falsifiable evidence for "heavens court.

Actually my view is verifiable after death, the first law of thermodynamics is the key

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I'm not sure exactly what example you are looking for so this may not fit the bill:

George Washington Carver is credited with saving the agricultural economy of the rural South. From his work at Tuskegee, Carver developed approximately 300 products made from peanuts; these included: flour, paste, insulation, paper, wall board, wood stains, soap, shaving cream and skin lotion. Carver is also credited with the innovation of crop rotation.

Cotton was the primary crop in the South in the early 1900s but cotton depleted the soil. Carver knew that peanuts replenished soil and tried to convince his constituents to plant a harvest of peanuts in between cotton yields so the cotton harvest would be more bountiful. The only problem, peanuts were not a profitable crop, which led George Washington Carver to the woods. Why the woods?

All my life, I have risen regularly at four in the morning to go into the woods and talk with God. That’s where He reveals His secrets to me. When everybody else is asleep, I hear God best and learn my plan… ~ George Washington Carver

One of those mornings, Carver asked God to show him why he made the peanut. He knew it was the solution for soil health but he needed to know why it was valuable so his crop rotation idea could be implemented.

He told me, ‘separate the peanut into water, fats, oils, gums, resins, sugars, starches, and amino acids. Then recombine these under My three laws of compatibility, temperature, and pressure. Then, the Lord said, ‘then you will know why I made the peanut! ~ George Washington Carver

“Within ten days George Washington Carver had “discovered” more than 300 uses for the peanut. One trip to that special place in the woods to talk with God not only enhanced race relations at the time but also fundamentally changed the agricultural industry as we know it today. All because he listened to and felt the spirit of God in his life.” (Andy Andrews)

God’s response made sense to Carver because this was his field, God met him where he was. God expanded his understanding of an area Carver was already familiar with. Like Moses who used the staff that was already in his hands and like the widow who approached Elisha, the oil she already had was multiplied, God expanded something Carver was already involved with.

This is a lesson for us, we often wait for God to do a “new thing” in our lives when he’s actually seeking to increase and expand that which he’s already placed in us.

How to Hear God: A Lesson from George Washington Carver and the Peanut — Forward Ministries

thank you, but I was thinking in terms of chapter and verse from the Bible that encourages people to study and follow nature, and to be creative with that knowledge.

Most of what I remember is admonitions to ignore the world because it is as a dead corpse and to heed only the word of God, as found in the scriptures...

 

[Kenny]

thank you, but I was thinking in terms of chapter and verse from the Bible that encourages people to study and follow nature, and to be creative with that knowledge.

Most of what I remember is admonitions to ignore the world because it is as a dead corpse and to heed only the word of God, as found in the scriptures...

Interesting in that I have never heard of that position.

We could start at the very beginning where God handed the Garden to Adam and Eve and gave the commandment to take care of it and expand it. (In Genesis)

Genesis is probably the most powerful by the law of firsts or precedent.

Prov 25:2 MSG God delights in concealing things; scientists delight in discovering things. - In essence God places things there for us to delight in discovering it.

If your read Proverbs, you will find many applications such as:

Prov 6: 6 Go to the ant, you lazy one,
Observe its ways and be wise,
7 Which, having no chief,
Officer, or ruler,
8 Prepares its food in the summer
And gathers its provision in the harvest.
9 How long will you lie down, you lazy one?
When will you arise from your sleep?

Number 35:33 You shall not pollute the land in which you live, for blood pollutes the land,

Job 12: “But ask the beasts, and they will teach you; the birds of the heavens, and they will tell you; or the bushes of the earth, and they will teach you; and the fish of the sea will declare to you. Who among all these does not know that the hand of the Lord has done this? In his hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind.

Hope this helps, there are others.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Interesting in that I have never heard of that position.

We could start at the very beginning where God handed the Garden to Adam and Eve and gave the commandment to take care of it and expand it. (In Genesis)

Prov 25:2 MSG God delights in concealing things; scientists delight in discovering things. - In essence God places things there for us to delight in discovering it.

If your read Proverbs, you will find many applications such as:

Prov 6: 6 Go to the ant, you lazy one,
Observe its ways and be wise,
7 Which, having no chief,
Officer, or ruler,
8 Prepares its food in the summer
And gathers its provision in the harvest.
9 How long will you lie down, you lazy one?
When will you arise from your sleep?

Number 35:33 You shall not pollute the land in which you live, for blood pollutes the land,

Job 12: “But ask the beasts, and they will teach you; the birds of the heavens, and they will tell you; or the bushes of the earth, and they will teach you; and the fish of the sea will declare to you. Who among all these does not know that the hand of the Lord has done this? In his hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind.

Hope this helps, there are others.

Hmmm...King James makes no mention of scientists...only Kings...

2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

and the 'matter' being discussed seems to be disputes between people...

Proverbs 6 seems to be drawing moral lessons from unscientific observation of one limited category of living thing...little different than Aesop's fables...

Numbers is speaking of murder, the blood of which is a pollution of the land...not industrial pollution, or in fact anything to do with knowing about nature and exploiting it...

And Job does not seem to be speaking of science or understanding nature, but that one should understand that God can take everything away from you, including knowledge...

So, thank you, but I'm not seeing any encouragement to study and research nature through scientific means, trying to understand the works of God and to use that knowledge to "dress and keep" the world...

 

[Kenny]

Hmmm...King James makes no mention of scientists...only Kings...

2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

and the 'matter' being discussed seems to be disputes between people...

Proverbs 6 seems to be drawing moral lessons from unscientific observation of one limited category of living thing...little different than Aesop's fables...

Numbers is speaking of murder, the blood of which is a pollution of the land...not industrial pollution, or in fact anything to do with knowing about nature and exploiting it...

And Job does not seem to be speaking of science or understanding nature, but that one should understand that God can take everything away from you, including knowledge...

So, thank you, but I'm not seeing any encouragement to study and research nature through scientific means, trying to understand the works of God and to use that knowledge to "dress and keep" the world...

Maybe we can start over.

Gen. 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Law of firsts or precedent. Not to build houses, cities or even worship centers but to dress and keep the land.

Dress - abad (Heb) to work it. Implication is one has to study nature, trees, herbs if one is to work it.

Keep - Shamar - various applications: including to watch and observe; to pay heed; protect and save. Implication - if one is going to watch, observe et al, one has to study and know.

Prov. 25:2 You are right... I used The Message for clarity applying it to today's life since Kings are not the norm. The word "search out" is

1. to search, search for, search out, examine, investigate
   1. (Qal)
      1. to search (for)
      2. to search through, explore
      3. to examine thoroughly
   2. (Niphal)
      1. to be searched out, be found out, be ascertained, be examined
   3. (Piel) to search out, seek out

This is what scientists do. Solomon was also a scientist. I believe it is applicable.

Numbers. It may not be industrial pollution but it was considered pollution. So protecting the land was an important aspect (that is why I used it.

Job. But its application was "study nature" and you will know God better.

If you read the Bible with the intent of seeing "where is God asking me to study nature and discover new scientific realities" you will find it. Even as Washington Carver sought out and God opened his understanding.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Maybe we can start over.

Gen. 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Law of firsts or precedent. Not to build houses, cities or even worship centers but to dress and keep the land.

Dress - abad (Heb) to work it. Implication is one has to study nature, trees, herbs if one is to work it.

Keep - Shamar - various applications: including to watch and observe; to pay heed; protect and save. Implication - if one is going to watch, observe et al, one has to study and know.

Prov. 25:2 You are right... I used The Message for clarity applying it to today's life since Kings are not the norm. The word "search out" is

1. to search, search for, search out, examine, investigate
   1. (Qal)
      1. to search (for)
      2. to search through, explore
      3. to examine thoroughly
   2. (Niphal)
      1. to be searched out, be found out, be ascertained, be examined
   3. (Piel) to search out, seek out

This is what scientists do. Solomon was also a scientist. I believe it is applicable.

Numbers. It may not be industrial pollution but it was considered pollution. So protecting the land was an important aspect (that is why I used it.

Job. But its application was "study nature" and you will know God better.

If you read the Bible with the intent of seeing "where is God asking me to study nature and discover new scientific realities" you will find it. Even as Washington Carver sought out and God opened his understanding.

Thank you for your feedback, I can see better now how you reached your position. The ambiguity of the Bible is that one may read and find one thing, and another the complete opposite.

I, for example, read the Bible and see repeated and continuous warnings not to question God, nor do anything to test or challenge God. I do not see any encouragement to study or understand nature, except as its demonstration at how insignificant humans are and how mighty God is. And as a warning about the evil of demons and spirits and the like. Encouragement to study nature always seems to be couched in moral and ethical terms, in relation to God's commands to worship and commands to treat other humans morally and ethcially (but according to his written rules, not rules derived from observing nature), and not in terms of understanding the mechanics of the cosmos or using that knowledge to improve humanity or the world.

You, I am sure, do not get that message, from what you say.

Well, good night.

 

[Heyo]

If you read the Bible with the intent of seeing "where is God asking me to study nature and discover new scientific realities" you will find it.

And you will find reasons to deny what scientists have discovered also. As you do whenever it fits.

 

[Kenny]

Thank you for your feedback, I can see better now how you reached your position. The ambiguity of the Bible is that one may read and find one thing, and another the complete opposite.

I, for example, read the Bible and see repeated and continuous warnings not to question God, nor do anything to test or challenge God. I do not see any encouragement to study or understand nature, except as its demonstration at how insignificant humans are and how mighty God is. And as a warning about the evil of demons and spirits and the like. Encouragement to study nature always seems to be couched in moral and ethical terms, in relation to God's commands to worship and commands to treat other humans morally and ethcially (but according to his written rules, not rules derived from observing nature), and not in terms of understanding the mechanics of the cosmos or using that knowledge to improve humanity or the world.

You, I am sure, do not get that message, from what you say.

Well, good night.

Hope you had a good night.

Yes, we would see it differently. Perhaps it is how we approach the reading of it.

I find that "Love your neighbor as yourself" as we "seek knowledge and wisdom" encompasses "improve humanity and the world".

 

[Kenny]

And you will find reasons to deny what scientists have discovered also. As you do whenever it fits.

I wouldn't call letting scientists "correct their previous position" - denying what scientists discover. I agree with scientists 99% of the times (guesstamate).

The earth isn't flat and there is gravity (for an example)

 

[Heyo]

I wouldn't call letting scientists "correct their previous position" - denying what scientists discover. I agree with scientists 99% of the times (guesstamate).

The earth isn't flat and there is gravity (for an example)

And humans are apes (for an example).

 

[F1fan]

Again.. this is ignorance gone to seed with no relevance to what we are talking about. Your hostility is evident

I wouldn't call letting scientists "correct their previous position" - denying what scientists discover. I agree with scientists 99% of the times (guesstamate).

The earth isn't flat and there is gravity (for an example)

You admitted to being a creationist, that you reject humans being a species of animal that evolved. That puts you way under 99% agreement. Why would you disagree with experts in science at all? Based on what? You are admitting to some degree of willful ignorance.

 

[metis]

Yes but not for mankind.

I'm not sure what you mean by that so can you clarify? Are you saying that us humans didn't evolve, or that we are special, or...?

Hope ya had a great weekend.

 

[metis]

Yes... but I never said the soul was supernatural. It is the spirit that makes us supernatural.

I like the Society of Friends ["Quakers"] use of having an "inner light" as a definition for "soul", as a God-given gift that allows us to better see right from wrong, but then we must tap into it for it to be effective. Just a thought.

 

[Kenny]

And humans are apes (for an example).

Yes... that would be in the 1% as my posts have stipulated.

 

[Kenny]

You admitted to being a creationist, that you reject humans being a species of animal that evolved. That puts you way under 99% agreement. Why would you disagree with experts in science at all? Based on what? You are admitting to some degree of willful ignorance.

Come back when you come out of irrelevancy

 

[Kenny]

I'm not sure what you mean by that so can you clarify? Are you saying that us humans didn't evolve, or that we are special, or...?

Hope ya had a great weekend.

It was a great weekend!!

Yes... I am in the "man did not evolve" camp. On that point, I am pretty much a literalist.