Proof against the existence of God?

[an anarchist]

If there was no bad, you would never experience good. You would be just existing.

I disagree with that notion. There can be positivity without negativity. You just lose a frame of reference, that's all. Sadness is not a prerequisite for happiness.

 

[We Never Know]

It doesn't. It makes the discussion of gods moot. How can we sensibly talk about a thing we don't know what it is?

Same as people can debate about what isn't known. It happens here daily.

 

[We Never Know]

I disagree with that notion. There can be positivity without negativity. You just lose a frame of reference, that's all. Sadness is not a prerequisite for happiness.

If you never experienced bad, good would mean nothing.

Bad times are why you are thankful for good times.

 

[an anarchist]

If you never experienced bad, good would mean nothing.

Why? Supposedly in heaven there is no bad, so are you saying that there is no good in heaven either? I'm not exactly following this logic. "without beauty, there would be no ugliness" I have read before. Is it something along these lines?

 

[Truthseeker]

Of course, Baha'is have their apologetic, that suffering is good for us, but that does not cut the mustard for me.
That is just a way for believers to try to cover for God so they can still believe He is loving, since they need to feel loved.

I didn't cover this part. Sometiumes it isn't beneficial at the time. But as I said in my previous post, even if isn't beneficial in the life before death, the afterlife compensates for that, but you can't accept that for emotional reasons.

 

[Left Coast]

Agnosticism whether skeptical or sympathetic to theism, appears more virtuous than hard line atheism.

In my experience, anyone who gets excessively dogmatic about such things (or a lot of things, really) tends to get blinded by their own biases, whether they're atheists or theists. And that generally makes them just...unpleasant, usually. Self-righteousness is not a good look on anyone.

 

[We Never Know]

Why? Supposedly in heaven there is no bad, so are you saying that there is no good in heaven either? I'm not exactly following this logic. "without beauty, there would be no ugliness" I have read before. Is it something along these lines?

I thought we were talking about life as we live it. Are we talking about heaven?

And yes, if everything was beautiful, nothing would be ugly

 

[Left Coast]

Why? Supposedly in heaven there is no bad, so are you saying that there is no good in heaven either? I'm not exactly following this logic. "without beauty, there would be no ugliness" I have read before. Is it something along these lines?

The TV show The Good Place offers a humorous but insightful take on the problem with endless bliss.

 

[an anarchist]

I thought we were talking about life as we live it. Are we talking about heaven?

Im talking about evil. You are saying that if there is no evil, than good wouldn't exist. I bring up heaven as the concept of it seems to disagree with your assertion. Heaven is a place where there is no evil and only good. And God believers often believe in a heaven.

 

[Truthseeker]

Can't you remember the name of it? Perhaps you conflated demonstrating that God is not necessary with refuting God. They are not one and the same thing.

Perhaps his intention was to demostrate that God is not necessary in the world. It's been a while. I don't remember the name of the program. One part was that time didn't exist befire the Big Bang, so God wouldn't have time to create the Universe. Before that he endevoured to show that the Universe sprang into existence without God. That's what I remember.

 

[We Never Know]

Im talking about evil. You are saying that if there is no evil, than good wouldn't exist. I bring up heaven as the concept of it seems to disagree with your assertion. Heaven is a place where there is no evil and only good. And God believers often believe in a heaven.

Well earth and heaven(if it exists) are two different places. Things differ. There is life on earth but not Jupiter... Two different places

 

[RestlessSoul]

It doesn't. It makes the discussion of gods moot. How can we sensibly talk about a thing we don't know what it is?

The same way we can have discussions about gravity, or time, or infinity, or consciousness, without knowing exactly what they are or what is implied or assumed when the terms are used.

 

[an anarchist]

Well earth and heaven(if it exists) are two different places. Things differ. There is life on earth but not Jupiter... Two different places

I see, thank you

 

[Heyo]

Same as people can debate about what isn't known. It happens here daily.

And where does it lead to?

As I see it, talk about the unknown should have the increase in knowledge as a goal. Otherwise it is just small talk. Everyone talks about the weather but no-one is doing anything against it.
Talking about gods is like talking about the weather. In the end nobody is doing anything against them.

 

[We Never Know]

I see, thank you

I see it like this....
There is no up without down.
There is no cold without hot
There is no light without darkness
There is no left without right
There is no good without bad
Etc.

But thats me.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Perhaps his intention was to demostrate that God is not necessary in the world. It's been a while. I don't remember the name of the program. One part was that time didn't exist befire the Big Bang, so God wouldn't have time to create the Universe. Before that he endevoured to show that the Universe sprang into existence without God. That's what I remember.

Many take that as an attempt to prove that God does not exist, but I would not say that is necessarily the case. Just as many creationists try to claim that those that accept the theory of evolution are "trying to refute God".

 

[Dawnofhope]

I can't offer proof but there is plenty of evidence, however I can't rule out the existence of a God completely as I've only investigated a small number of the Gods that are claimed to exist.

There are different claims for different gods or God, that is true. In my culture (strongly influenced by Western culture) when people talk of God they usually refer to a single Creator God to which both our indigenous people and Christians believe.

 

[Heyo]

The same way we can have discussions about gravity, or time, or infinity, or consciousness, without knowing exactly what they are or what is implied or assumed when the terms are used.

We have a pretty good understanding about gravity, time and infinities. We have less understanding about Dark Matter or Dark Energy but we can devise tests to learn more. We know virtually nothing about gods (or consciousness for that matter) and we have no idea how to learn about them. In fact, many torpedo any attempt to try.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you think suffering is a bad thing or something to be avoided? Why would God not allow suffering?

I do not think all suffering is bad for people and we should accept there will be some suffering but not seek it out.
I think some suffering is gratuitous and some is more than some folks can handle and still function.
This idea that suffering makes people stronger does not apply to everyone and who are we to judge people who are weakened by their suffering?

I admit the concept of an All-loving God is highly problematic.

Thanks, you are the only Baha'i I know who has ever said that.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think God would take away our ability to commit evil and bring about suffering out of the goodness of his heart.

In that case, God would be taking away our free will and we could not choose good either.

It makes no sense that a benevolent omnipotent god allows suffering and evil in the first place. People act like he is doing is a favor by allowing suffering and evil to run rampant in the world. He's really not.

I cannot really argue with that. The evil I can understand since we have free will to choose and we cause it, but the other suffering I have a problem with. Especially since I have suffered for most of my life, I can understand how others feel and empathize.