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Proof against the existence of God?

Dawnofhope

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
What is the strongest or most compelling argument in your view for the non-existence of God or gods?

I'm sure this question has done the rounds on RF ad nauseum. I'm curious as to why people would be completely convinced about the non-existence of God.

The strongest argument I would put forward, is a personal one. I have never seen God and to my knowledge, nor has anyone else.

That being said I am a committed theist and the the God I believe in is an Unknowable Essence.
 
PoetPhilosopher

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
The biggest argument I can think of is that there is no real solid proof, that the holy writings tend to have a PR problem over time, especially as the years pass and society develops further, that morality tends to come from within rather than from a book, and that it's extremely difficult if not impossible to prove scriptures without using the scriptures to prove the scriptures (which is circular reasoning).
 
Left Coast

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Dawnofhope said:
What is the strongest or most compelling argument in your view for the non-existence of God or gods?

I'm sure this question has done the rounds on RF ad nauseum. I'm curious as to why people would be completely convinced about the non-existence of God.

The strongest argument I would put forward, is a personal one. I have never seen God and to my knowledge, nor has anyone else.

That being said I am a committed theist and the the God I believe in is an Unknowable Essence.
Click to expand...

I think the Problem of Evil and the Problem of Divine Hiddenness are probably the best arguments against the Abrahamic omnimax sort of God. I don't think there's any way to definitively "know" such things though, nor would I say I'm "completely convinced" of God's non-existence. I'm solidly agnostic and highly dubious.
 
Heyo

Heyo

Veteran Member
Dawnofhope said:
What is the strongest or most compelling argument in your view for the non-existence of God or gods?

I'm sure this question has done the rounds on RF ad nauseum. I'm curious as to why people would be completely convinced about the non-existence of God.

The strongest argument I would put forward, is a personal one. I have never seen God and to my knowledge, nor has anyone else.

That being said I am a committed theist and the the God I believe in is an Unknowable Essence.
Click to expand...
I emphasised the reason I'm not convinced of the existence of "gods".
I don't know what a god is and - as you admit - neither do you. Come with a definition that a vast majority of believers agree upon and we can talk.
 
We Never Know

We Never Know

No Slack
Dawnofhope said:
What is the strongest or most compelling argument in your view for the non-existence of God or gods?

I'm sure this question has done the rounds on RF ad nauseum. I'm curious as to why people would be completely convinced about the non-existence of God.

The strongest argument I would put forward, is a personal one. I have never seen God and to my knowledge, nor has anyone else.

That being said I am a committed theist and the the God I believe in is an Unknowable Essence.
Click to expand...

Well there is no scientific evidence of a god...but science doesn't study gods, therefore science can't provide evidence of a god existing or not existing in anyway, so we are back to there is no scientific evidence of a god.
Its circular reasoning.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
We Never Know said:
Well there is no scientific evidence of a god...but science doesn't study gods, therefore science can't provide evidence of a god existing or not existing in anyway, so we are back to there is no scientific evidence of a god.
Its circular reasoning.
Click to expand...


It is definitely not a scientific problem. I will agree with that. But specific versions of God may be refuted with science, but one cannot refute a general God that way. It is more of a philosophical problem and for that one should look at the sorts of arguments that @Left Coast posted (Hah!! Got it right this time:D).
 
Dawnofhope

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Heyo said:
I emphasised the reason I'm not convinced of the existence of "gods".
I don't know what a god is and - as you admit - neither do you. Come with a definition that a vast majority of believers agree upon and we can talk.
Click to expand...

I've often heard about the need to define what God is before any discussion can begin. To an extent, the sacred scriptures of the Abrahamic Faiths, provide a reasonably comprehensive narrative about who God is. The argument against a knowable God would be that God is so much greater than we are and is therefore beyond our comprehension. Because Islam and Christianity is so large, there is a relative amount of agreement about who God is with each of these faith communities.

So if one starts from Christianity or Islam there is certainly a comprehensive view of God presented. Whether that God is plausible or not is a different matter.
 
Dawnofhope

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
We Never Know said:
Well there is no scientific evidence of a god...but science doesn't study gods, therefore science can't provide evidence of a god existing or not existing in anyway, so we are back to there is no scientific evidence of a god.
Its circular reasoning.
Click to expand...

I do agree that scientific methodology isn't designed for the study of the existence or nature of God. If one desires to consider the existence or otherwise of God, then taking a purely scientific approach appears unlikely to be fruitful.
 
Dawnofhope

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Left Coast said:
I think the Problem of Evil and the Problem of Divine Hiddenness are probably the best arguments against the Abrahamic omnimax sort of God. I don't think there's any way to definitively "know" such things though, nor would I say I'm "completely convinced" of God's non-existence. I'm solidly agnostic and highly dubious.
Click to expand...
Agnosticism whether skeptical or sympathetic to theism, appears more virtuous than hard line atheism.
 
an anarchist

an anarchist

Your local anarchist.
Dawnofhope said:
What is the strongest or most compelling argument in your view for the non-existence of God or gods?

I'm sure this question has done the rounds on RF ad nauseum. I'm curious as to why people would be completely convinced about the non-existence of God.

The strongest argument I would put forward, is a personal one. I have never seen God and to my knowledge, nor has anyone else.

That being said I am a committed theist and the the God I believe in is an Unknowable Essence.
Click to expand...
I believe the problem of evil rules out the Abrahamic God. It does for me at least. gods on the other hand...
 
We Never Know

We Never Know

No Slack
CG Didymus said:
And other religions that have a different concept of God also refute the Gods of others.
Click to expand...

Science has no stance on whether a god(s) exist or not. People either believe a god does exist or believe a god doesn't exist.

IMO Its all based on belief. Those that claim a "lack of belief" simply don't believe in a god.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
We Never Know said:
Science has no stance on whether a god(s) exist or not. People either believe a god does exist or believe a god doesn't exist.

IMO Its all based on belief. Those that claim a "lack of belief" simply don't believe in a god.
Click to expand...

Who do you think is trying to use science in their arguments for or against God?
 
Truthseeker

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
Snow White said:
The biggest argument I can think of is that there is no real solid proof, that the holy writings tend to have a PR problem over time, especially as the years pass and society develops further, that morality tends to come from within rather than from a book, and that it's extremely difficult if not impossible to prove scriptures without using the scriptures to prove the scriptures (which is circular reasoning).
Click to expand...
From a purely logical view it is hard to prove God that way. If you look at the Bible, there are many authors, some which contradict each other. If you look at the Qur'an, you would have to really study and ponder them for a long time to know to establish one way or another conclusively if God is behind them.

If you don't trust that what you are feeling inside is what I would call spiritual feelings if indeed they occur at all, then you're still out in left field.

Then there is the life of the Prophet. What source do you trust for an accurate account to decide whether the Prophet is crazy, deluded, or a liar?
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Dawnofhope said:
What is the strongest or most compelling argument in your view for the non-existence of God or gods?
Click to expand...
In this thread I started are two legitimate reasons not to believe in God.

Legitimate reasons not to believe in God

1. There is no proof that God exists
2. There is too much suffering in the world for God to exist

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1. Of course, there is no reason to think that there would be proof if God exists since God would have to provide that proof, and if God wants our faith, as I believe, God will never provide proof.

2. God could exist in spite of all the suffering in the world since there is really no correlation. However, in light of the fact that God created a world wherein He knew there would be so much suffering, even though God does not directly cause it, I cannot believe that God is All-loving.
 
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