Proof against the existence of God?

[Subduction Zone]

Stephen Hawking did in a program I saw on TV some years ago. He was trying to prove that God doesn't exist. In my belief, he knows better now.

Did he now? Are you sure about that? I am familiar with his work and I do not remember such a show.

 

[an anarchist]

1. Of course, there is no reason to think that there would be proof if God exists since God would have to provide that proof, and if God wants our faith, as I believe, God will never provide proof.

Well I'm not sure how much of the Bible Bahais believe, but there are plenty of examples where God provided proof of His existence and still expected faith, which he didn't always get. Why doesnt God do that presently?

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't know what a god is and - as you admit - neither do you. Come with a definition that a vast majority of believers agree upon and we can talk.

I can give you the Baha'i definition of God.....

God in the Baháʼí Faith

but why would the majority of believers agree on that? They all have different religions that were revealed at different times in history. Why would believers' different conceptions of God disprove God?

 

[Subduction Zone]

This is all you deserve for that reply....

Wait for it.....

Wait for it....

Wait for it...

Wait for it..



There it is

So sad. You still do not know who to use those. Try facepalming yourself about a thousand times. Then you may be ready to move one.

You seem to have forgotten that the only one that has claimed to have evidence in this thread was the OP. We are just wondering if he will ever provide any.

 

[Truthseeker]

2. God could exist in spite of all the suffering in the world since there is really no correlation. However, in light of the fact that God created a world wherein He knew there would be so much suffering, even though God does not directly cause it, I cannot believe that God is All-loving.

There's that feeling part that your reason or mine can remedy at this time.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well I'm not sure how much of the Bible Bahais believe, but there are plenty of examples where God provided proof of His existence and still expected faith, which he didn't always get. Why doesnt God do that presently?

Where in the Bible did God provide proof of His existence?
Even if it is written in the Bible, how would that be proof to those reading it?

 

[Dawnofhope]

I believe the problem of evil rules out the Abrahamic God. It does for me at least. gods on the other hand...

Why can't God allow evil to exist?

 

[We Never Know]

Why can't God allow evil to exist?

A god allows light and darkness, good and evil, left and right, up and down, hot and cold... one cant exist without the other.

 

[Truthseeker]

Did he now? Are you sure about that? I am familiar with his work and I do not remember such a show.

I am sure. I don't think you can cover everything he might have done on TV. I know for myself that I miss out on shows that I would have liked to watch.

 

[an anarchist]

Where in the Bible did God provide proof of His existence?
Even if it is written in the Bible, how would that be proof to those reading it?

Plenty and plenty of times God proves himself to the characters of the Bible. The Israelites more times than I can remember. And Jesus Christ provided proof and expected faith. That doesn't prove the Bible to us presently, rather it shows that if Abrahamic God is real, he expects a lot more faith out of us than he did of the people back then. Lucky them

 

[John53]

What is the strongest or most compelling argument in your view for the non-existence of God or gods?

I'm sure this question has done the rounds on RF ad nauseum. I'm curious as to why people would be completely convinced about the non-existence of God.

The strongest argument I would put forward, is a personal one. I have never seen God and to my knowledge, nor has anyone else.

That being said I am a committed theist and the the God I believe in is an Unknowable Essence.

I can't offer proof but there is plenty of evidence, however I can't rule out the existence of a God completely as I've only investigated a small number of the Gods that are claimed to exist.

 

[an anarchist]

Why can't God allow evil to exist?

A benevolent god I would think would squash evil. Sure, God can allow evil to exist. He might not even be responsible for evil. But this type of God isn't benevolent or omnipotent in my view.

 

[Trailblazer]

There's that feeling part that your reason or mine can remedy at this time.

"God could exist in spite of all the suffering in the world since there is really no correlation. However, in light of the fact that God created a world wherein He knew there would be so much suffering, even though God does not directly cause it, I cannot believe that God is All-loving."

No, that is not my feeling part, that is my reasoning part.
Of course, Baha'is have their apologetic, that suffering is good for us, but that does not cut the mustard for me.
That is just a way for believers to try to cover for God so they can still believe He is loving, since they need to feel loved.

How logical is it that a loving God would create a world that is a Storehouse of Suffering?
Baha'is do not use reason, they believe on emotions.

 

[Trailblazer]

A benevolent god I would think would squash evil.

I don't think so since God gave man free will to commit good or evil, so why would God take away the choice He gave us?

If you are talking about suffering that is different from evil. God created a world that is a storehouse of suffering, and God did that for a reason, so why would God squash what He created? That would make no sense.

 

[Dawnofhope]

1. Of course, there is no reason to think that there would be proof if God exists since God would have to provide that proof, and if God wants our faith, as I believe, God will never provide proof.

It is an interesting position. I believe in a God who wants us at the very least to be aware of His existence. I would consider that God to have made knowledge of Him open to many people. If we are discussing the God of Abraham then many peoples of the world have already come to know and worship Him. Did God have a role to play in so many coming to know Him? If God exists it seems likely. Less likely is that He actively avoided humans coming to know of Him. If that was His intention He appears to have been spectacularly unsuccessful.

God could exist in spite of all the suffering in the world since there is really no correlation. However, in light of the fact that God created a world wherein He knew there would be so much suffering, even though God does not directly cause it, I cannot believe that God is All-loving.

Do you think suffering is a bad thing or something to be avoided? Why would God not allow suffering?

I admit the concept of an All-loving God is highly problematic.

 

[an anarchist]

I don't think so since God gave man free will to commit good or evil, so why would God take away the choice He gave us?

If you are talking about suffering that is different from evil. God created a world that is a storehouse of suffering, and God did that for a reason, so why would God squash what He created? That would make no sense.

I think God would take away our ability to commit evil and bring about suffering out of the goodness of his heart. It makes no sense that a benevolent omnipotent god allows suffering and evil in the first place. People act like he is doing is a favor by allowing suffering and evil to run rampant in the world. He's really not.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am sure. I don't think you can cover everything he might have done on TV. I know for myself that I miss out on shows that I would have liked to watch.

Can't you remember the name of it? Perhaps you conflated demonstrating that God is not necessary with refuting God. They are not one and the same thing.

 

[We Never Know]

A benevolent god I would think would squash evil. Sure, God can allow evil to exist. He might not even be responsible for evil. But this type of God isn't benevolent or omnipotent in my view.

If there was no bad, you would never experience good. You would be just existing. You just as well be a rock.

 

[Heyo]

Why would believers' different conceptions of God disprove God?

It doesn't. It makes the discussion of gods moot. How can we sensibly talk about a thing we don't know what it is?

 

[Truthseeker]

No, that is not my feeling part, that is my reasoning part.

That reasoning part ultimately has feeling behind it. Your suffering has made you empathetic about suffering in the world, don't you think? In turn, since you are empathetic about it, you can't accept the suffering that exists. It is hard for you see that in cases of undeserved suffering created by the world, in the end the next world compensates for that. This is compounded by your lack of trust in the next world doing that. Am I on the mark? The next world for you is something unknown that you don't want to go to, and that is why read books like The Afterlife Revealed so you can get certainty about how it is in the next world, so you won't be anxious about the next world. This anxiety is another emotion that you have in spades in your life. How am I doing as a therapist this time? I feel like I am rambling.