What we are living for

[JustGeorge]

As someone pulled out of that I must object.

How would you suggest handling someone in that mindset? Is it something other people can help with? If so, how? Or is it something a person has to come to on their own? A combination of both?

 

[Sheldon]

I respect your religious convictions but I believe that as electricity exists (and is invisible) then an immaterial world exists.
You cannot see electricity, yet it exists.

Electricity isn't immaterial, it is a natural physical phenomenon.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No...Christians believe different soteriologies.
For example...I believe that the sins Soros committed are irreparable and so there is no possibility of salvation.
Good Atheists are saved.

The Bible is clear there is only one unforgivable sin.

 

[Estro Felino]

The Bible is clear there is only one unforgivable sin.

You were raised Protestant, I was raised Catholic.
I was taught that those who worship the money-god and won't repent (by repenting Catholics mean reparation, not just words, God is not gullible) are already servants of the Prince of Evil.
But there are so many good people who serve the people's interests.

 

[Sheldon]

↑
I am not saying atheism leads to amorality.
Really?

Really

↑
Many people do harm the others because they think there is no God

Ok, I guess you're moving on without addressing that then.

No...Christians believe different soteriologies.
For example...I believe that the sins Soros committed are irreparable and so there is no possibility of salvation.
Good Atheists are saved.

Which doesn't address my point at all. Firstly I said Christians, not all Christians, so something of a straw man.

You also ignored this:

Good and evil are subjective human notions. Again there is no evidence that atheists are less moral than theists, why would they be.

 

[Sheldon]

The Bible is clear there is only one unforgivable sin.

Indeed, it's adding anything to decent wine, yes?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Indeed, it's adding anything to decent wine, yes?

No.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How would you suggest handling someone in that mindset? Is it something other people can help with? If so, how? Or is it something a person has to come to on their own? A combination of both?

Probably both.

You were raised Protestant, I was raised Catholic.
I was taught that those who worship the money-god and won't repent (by repenting Catholics mean reparation, not just words, God is not gullible) are already servants of the Prince of Evil.
But there are so many good people who serve the people's interests.

I was taught that no man can forgive you, but rather it is strictly between you and Jesus, as he is the only one who can forgive us. I was also taught god knows when are hearts are true and honest and when we are just saying words to the air.
And taught, very rigidly, god knows where our priorities lie, and if it is him or an idol we worship.

 

[Sheldon]

I was raised Catholic....I was taught that those who worship the money-god......are already servants of the Prince of Evil.

"Bankers' best guesses about the Vatican's wealth put it at $10 billion to $15 billion. Of this wealth, Italian stockholdings alone run to $1.6 billion, 15% of the value of listed shares on the Italian market. The Vatican has big investments in banking, insurance, chemicals, steel, construction, real estate."

 

[Sheldon]

No.

Well I am going to stubbornly cling to this belief...

 

[Estro Felino]

"Bankers' best guesses about the Vatican's wealth put it at $10 billion to $15 billion. Of this wealth, Italian stockholdings alone run to $1.6 billion, 15% of the value of listed shares on the Italian market. The Vatican has big investments in banking, insurance, chemicals, steel, construction, real estate."

Who said the Vatican is holy?
Or made up by holy people? Quite the opposite.

 

[Estro Felino]

Probably both.

I was taught that no man can forgive you, but rather it is strictly between you and Jesus, as he is the only one who can forgive us. I was also taught god knows when are hearts are true and honest and when we are just saying words to the air.
And taught, very rigidly, god knows where our priorities lie, and if it is him or an idol we worship.

well...I feel exactly like the song sung by Gala.

 

[Estro Felino]

You also ignored this:

Right, I had ignored that. Sorry.
Well...lots of atheists believe in the difference between good and evil.
The existence of a deity is not necessary for these two forces to exist.

 

[Revoltingest]

But that's the point. Many people do harm the others because they think there is no God and no God's judgment, after we die. So they do openly harm others because there is no eternal consequence as soon as they pass away.

Atheists & believers can both be good or bad.
But believers who are good, can be commanded
by their religion to do evil things, eg, execute the
infidel, deny abortions to little girls raped by thugs.
Religion is certainly not morally superior to atheism.

 

[Estro Felino]

Atheists & believers can both be good or bad.
But believers who are good, can be commanded
by their religion to do evil things, eg, execute the
infidel, deny abortions to little girls raped by thugs.
Religion is certainly not morally superior to atheism.

That's for sure.
Religion does harm and keeps doing harm.
But there is also the religion that respect people's free will...because only God can judge.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's for sure.
Religion does harm and keeps doing harm.
But there is also the religion that respect people's free will….

And those that oppose free will, ie, civil rights that offend their god. This is when religion makes good people go bad.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I live for the weekend.

48 hours need 48 thrills

 

[RestlessSoul]

I'd rather be a prisoner of my own desires
than prisoner of a tyrannical regime.

To have the liberty to pursue my every
interest is absolutely wonderful.
Woe unto a people who think that life's
purpose is decided & imposed by others.

Yes, but who pays for the satisfaction of my worldly desires? And who else benefits from my material wealth?

No man is an island, after all. Woe to those people who live only to gratify themselves.

 

[Alien826]

That's a broad brush you're going with. I love sports and games and an competitive within the rules but...I'm one of the least competitive people you'll find outside of that space.

It would not surprise me to learn that there is a gene for the need to win. I lack it and I suspect Estro does too. I have no interest in who wins in a sporting conflict. If I watch, say, a golf tournament I do so because as a sometime golfer I know just how difficult it is to play that well and I enjoy watching people display that skill. When playing a game myself I only play against myself (if that's the right image). I want to play well, based on my own abilities. I would rather lose narrowly to a superior opponent having played my best game than beat the crap out of an inferior opponent while not playing my best.

I've talked to "fans" about this and tried to understand how they feel without success. It still makes no sense to me to, as I see it, to get emotionally involved in whether one group of strangers move a ball around more successfully than another group. I just don't get it.

Which doesn't make anyone "good" or "bad" by the way.

 

[Alien826]

And yet; just notice your own inner reaction to someone seriously sitting before you now, suggesting that you live the rest of your days trying to fulfil the wills of those whom you encounter instead of your own personal desires. If you are a person of your own time, from a western culture, you are likely to feel appalled, if not actually insulted!

If we can just change the words "wills of others" to "well-being of others" this would simply be an expression of what I truly feel to be the best life I could lead. All that is lacking is my ability to do so! Doing what others want is a modified form of slavery though.