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Featured What we are living for

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Estro Felino, Oct 1, 2022.

  1. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Seriously, I am realizing that in the West, people are still prisoners of their own desires.
    Of their own slight veiled greed....
    They think life is eternal...that life is for stockpiling stuff.
    Forgetting we will have to leave all that on this Earth....because in the afterlife there is no room for clutter.
    Life is something we should not take for granted. Tomorrow I can also die in an accident...and I am not preoccupied with that.
    Because I have lived my life to the fullest, freed from desire.

     
    #1 Estro Felino, Oct 1, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2022
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  2. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    Life is a game, a competition for some.
     
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  3. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    That's for sure.
    Which I don't find fun...:):p
     
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  4. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    No I agree. That's certainly true, but some on top find such things immensely fun and amusing for themselves.

    A thrill similar to what psychopaths and sociopaths lavish in.
     
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  5. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    It's understandable...
    That's why people love sport...because they love competition.
    I am not into sports at all...soccer games, Olympics...it's a no, no, no...
    Maybe because there is an obsession with winning.
     
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  6. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    Desires results in pleasures in the beginning but pain and misery in the long run due to the factors of saturation and impermanence of sensory objects.

    In eastern philosophy, the bliss and peace of the Self or Buddha nature within is considered to be of a permanent nature.

    In Christianity, Jesus had also referred to seeking the kingdom of God or heaven within oneself.

    However, because of the tangible nature of sensory pleasures and untangible nature of the Self/Buddha nature/ kingdom of God within, the tendency is to go after sensory pleasures even if one had enjoyed them to the brim or suffered due to its loss and non-acquisition. This is due to habit and also the inexhuastible nature of desires.

    It takes a certain amount of wisdom and reflection to discern these patterns and exercise correct judgement.
     
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  7. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    There are Christian ministers as well, who talk about degrees of awareness.
    Of course everything is gradual and slow in life, We cannot force anybody...we cannot impose anything on anybody. Everything must be spontaneous.
     
    #7 Estro Felino, Oct 1, 2022
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  8. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    That's a broad brush you're going with. I love sports and games and an competitive within the rules but...I'm one of the least competitive people you'll find outside of that space.
     
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  9. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Because in your country there is probably a healthy approach to sports...
    You must have heard of what soccer fans are in Italy...;)
     
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  10. DharmaCatLamp

    DharmaCatLamp Member

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    I think you'll find that this is not a new attitude. There was a time when I thought Nihilism had taken hold in the west in a way it never had in other societies but I found that this is simply not the case. Commodification may be a problem unique to the west but if you look throughout time you'll find that plenty of people have often done exactly what you are describing.

    There were plenty of times when in ancient India people only practiced and learned the Vedas for rewards on this earth. There were plenty of times throughout history where preachers only preached to take advantage of their flock. People constantly need to be reminded of the truth and that is why we have so many teachers throughout time and space.

    People forget how often this has come up in the past. The Buddha points out to people that their satisfaction is temporary. Judas gave up Jesus for silver, time and again materialism takes hold in the world but you should remember that you can always come back to the source. Do not worry that people give up on spirituality and embrace the material. This will happen but all you need worry about is what you are doing right now. If we worry too much about what happens in the world then we will never run out of worry. If we cling to what we cannot change we will never stop clinging.

    "Favor and disgrace would seem equally to be feared;
    Honor and great calamity, to be regarded as personal conditions of the same kind.
    What is meant by speaking thus of favor and disgrace?
    Disgrace is being in a low position after the enjoyment of favor.
    The getting that favor leads to the apprehension of losing it, and the losing it leads to the fear of still greater calamity.
    This is what is meant by saying that favor and disgrace would seem equally to be feared.
    And what is meant by saying that honor and great calamity are to be similarly regarded as personal conditions?
    What makes me liable to great calamity is my having the body which I call myself;
    If I had not the body, what great calamity could come to me?
    Therefore he who would administer the kingdom, honoring it as he honors his own person, may be employed to govern it,
    And he who would administer it with the love which he bears to his own person may be entrusted with it."
    - Translated by James Legge, 1891, Chapter 13
     
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  11. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Leaderless Animal

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    I live for the weekend.
     
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  12. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Happiness, common welfare, balance are all gems.
    Peace is a state of mind you achieve when you are happy if the other is happy.
     
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  13. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Nice. Same here. Nothing to worry about. Live life as best one can within the bounds of 'dharma'.
    Play the games according to rules. ;)
     
    #13 Aupmanyav, Oct 1, 2022
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  14. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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    Death is the price of admission for this ride, and there is no evidence we can survive our own physical deaths in any meaningful way. How anyone copes with this fact, is of course up to them, but as long as they don't openly harm others, more power to their elbow.
     
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  15. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Very right.
    But that's the point. Many people do harm the others because they think there is no God and no God's judgment, after we die. So they do openly harm others because there is no eternal consequence as soon as they pass away.
     
  16. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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    I don't believe you. The evidence suggests atheists are at least as moral as theists. Plenty of theists commit murder and rape, much of the bible depicts a deity that actively encourages it.

    There are also consequences for crimes in this life, and many theists of course commit heinous crimes with impunity, believing a deity wants them, or that they can have them expunged later, or because they view non-believers as irrelevant and less than believers.
     
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  17. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    My personal experience says that the atheists I know are wonderful friends, and true friends.
    The Catholic "friends" I have known were phony and distant. So I am not saying atheism leads to amorality.

    Although...there might be those who justify their own amorality (absence of ethics, absence of empathy) on the basis of the fact that there will be no eternal consequences.
    Soros is one of them: he was interviewed and said:

    Implying that there is no Supreme Being that determines what is evil or good, let alone that good and evil exist.
     
    #17 Estro Felino, Oct 1, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2022
  18. Hermit Philosopher

    Hermit Philosopher Selflessly here for you

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    In Western modern society, we’re told that the meaning of life is what you choose it to be.

    It’s not that this is not true, but that it’s lead to each one of us following the wills of our own, personal egos (often, in disregard for that of others) and to believing that the meaning of life is self-realisation through accomplishments of our self-interested, self-set, personal goals.

    That goes well with the individualist values of the West, but it also contributes to a greater sense of distance from those whose goals are different to our own and to more disharmony between us all.

    Some think that western ideas of the meaning of life also increases secularism. Though I get why they’d say so, I am unconvinced because, whiles religions that are large in the West don’t promote self-centrism, they also don’t seem too worried about it and are rather good at incorporating it into their daily lives and activities.

    And yet; just notice your own inner reaction to someone seriously sitting before you now, suggesting that you live the rest of your days trying to fulfil the wills of those whom you encounter instead of your own personal desires. If you are a person of your own time, from a western culture, you are likely to feel appalled, if not actually insulted!

    Because words that once were considered great spiritual virtues (“innocence”, “servitude”, “sacrifice”) have been replaced as worthy, by words that once were among Man’s commonest sins (“pride”, “ambition”, “self-righteousness”).

    To me, that says that while worldliness changes drastically, spiritual wisdom remains: renounce your desires and possessions and you shall experience heavenly harmony and peace. Here and now, as in any possible afterlife.


    Humbly
    Hermit
     
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  19. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    It's a very beautiful discourse. I would also add that there is a useful word that pretty sums it all up: simplicity.
    Simplifying our own and others' lives, schematically.
    That's what makes life worth-living: improving things so they are much simpler for the future generations.
    And they can live a life without many burdens.
     
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  20. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    I'd rather be a prisoner of my own desires
    than prisoner of a tyrannical regime.

    To have the liberty to pursue my every
    interest is absolutely wonderful.
    Woe unto a people who think that life's
    purpose is decided & imposed by others.
     
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