I'm merely one of the universe's tenants.But you are the universe, judging yourself with your own personal standards
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I'm merely one of the universe's tenants.But you are the universe, judging yourself with your own personal standards
While I think Pessimism is a guaranteed self-fulfilling prophecy, I don't believe Optimism guarantees good things to come.
Could you explain the difference?Thanks.
If we are to be free then we will experience all that comes with free will. The group then benefits or suffers the consequences of the loyalties and disloyalties of our own members, higher authorities and celestial administrators. Lucifer rebelled against God and abused his authority. Being a free will celestial administrator the possibility of default was there. Many of the diseases end genetic deformities would have been eradicated long ago had the default not happened. So we all more or less still suffering the consequences of Lucifers betrayal.Children being born with diseases, or disfigurements.
Good people dying, bad people getting far in life.
You could be on your way to beating depression, becoming religious, and trusting God, and then one day before you achieve all your goals, you're out hiking and you're attacked by a bear. Killed.
You could have gone to school, became a great genius, but never getting into a career long enough to make a breakthrough.
Any of this can happen. Assume, now, there is a God and the universe is going exactly they way God planned it. This is His design, everything that happens is exactly as it's meant to be.
What do you think the message is here? What do you interpret the meaning of our chaotic universe to be based on everything we know?
If you were to ask me, I sometimes feel like life is much like Albert Camus's view on Sisyphus. From this wikipedia article:
Camus is interested in Sisyphus's thoughts when marching down the mountain, to start anew. After the stone falls back down the mountain Camus states that "It is during that return, that pause, that Sisyphus interests me. A face that toils so close to stones is already stone itself! I see that man going back down with a heavy yet measured step toward the torment of which he will never know the end." This is the truly tragic moment when the hero becomes conscious of his wretched condition. He does not have hope, but "there is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn." Acknowledging the truth will conquer it; Sisyphus, just like the absurd man, continues pushing. Camus claims that when Sisyphus acknowledges the futility of his task and the certainty of his fate, he is freed to realize the absurdity of his situation and to reach a state of contented acceptance. With a nod to the similarly cursed Greek hero Oedipus, Camus concludes that "all is well," indeed, that "one must imagine Sisyphus happy."
I feel like what God is telling me is to follow through with my duties, goals, my individual meanings of life even when there's no light at the end of the tunnel. To not fully give up on myself to fall victim of hedonism or nihilism, but to aim for my goals while being happy doing so.
Kind of like optimism, but accepting that things won't necessarily turn out as you expect them to, so therefore instead of hope for the future it's more like acceptance of the future while also trying to mold it. The two are not contradictory.
Yes. While the two words can certainly be seen as synonymous, for me at least "message" can connote "messenger" which, in turn, can suggest agency.Could you explain the difference?
I stumbled over your use of "chaotic" but let it slide as it seemed you meant it poetically, not in a scientific sense. In science we believe that the universe is orderly. That is usually one of the main contentions between believers and scientists for almost all religions insist on miracles being real - which is exactly the polar opposite of an orderly universe. The more mature a theology is, the less miracles it requires.To call existence poetic may seem to contradict my original post which claimed the world seemed chaotic. But there is order, we call it natural order. The reason why I say it's poetic is because from nonliving organisms comes life, and from life comes meaning for continued existence, and from meaning comes intelligent life, and from intelligent life comes intricate language and exploration of the universe and the desire to understand more about the world around us. It appears to me that, through life, the universe is trying to understand itself. But again, this is just my opinion why it seems there is a God (or that the universe itself is God)
I don't see why diseases or genetic deformities would be a result of our own freewill, especially when children get these things. The point of this thread is that no matter what we choose in life, to be the best we can be or to give up on ourselves and live in nihilism, there's no guarantee we will be happy; therefore we have no freewill.If we are to be free then we will experience all that comes with free will. The group then benefits or suffers the consequences of the loyalties and disloyalties of our own members, higher authorities and celestial administrators. Lucifer rebelled against God and abused his authority. Being a free will celestial administrator the possibility of default was there. Many of the diseases end genetic deformities would have been eradicated long ago had the default not happened. So we all more or less still suffering the consequences of Lucifers betrayal.
I was asking in the OP that, if hypothetically there is a message to this all, what could it possibly be? Essentially, what would the moral of the story be in a universe without justice?Yes. While the two words can certainly be seen as synonymous, for me at least "message" can connote "messenger" which, in turn, can suggest agency.
You're right, I did mean chaotic in a poetic sense.I stumbled over your use of "chaotic" but let it slide as it seemed you meant it poetically, not in a scientific sense. In science we believe that the universe is orderly. That is usually one of the main contentions between believers and scientists for almost all religions insist on miracles being real - which is exactly the polar opposite of an orderly universe. The more mature a theology is, the less miracles it requires.
Children being born with diseases, or disfigurements.
Good people dying, bad people getting far in life.
You could be on your way to beating depression, becoming religious, and trusting God, and then one day before you achieve all your goals, you're out hiking and you're attacked by a bear. Killed.
You could have gone to school, became a great genius, but never getting into a career long enough to make a breakthrough.
Any of this can happen. Assume, now, there is a God and the universe is going exactly they way God planned it. This is His design, everything that happens is exactly as it's meant to be.
What do you think the message is here? What do you interpret the meaning of our chaotic universe to be based on everything we know?
If you were to ask me, I sometimes feel like life is much like Albert Camus's view on Sisyphus. From this wikipedia article:
Camus is interested in Sisyphus's thoughts when marching down the mountain, to start anew. After the stone falls back down the mountain Camus states that "It is during that return, that pause, that Sisyphus interests me. A face that toils so close to stones is already stone itself! I see that man going back down with a heavy yet measured step toward the torment of which he will never know the end." This is the truly tragic moment when the hero becomes conscious of his wretched condition. He does not have hope, but "there is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn." Acknowledging the truth will conquer it; Sisyphus, just like the absurd man, continues pushing. Camus claims that when Sisyphus acknowledges the futility of his task and the certainty of his fate, he is freed to realize the absurdity of his situation and to reach a state of contented acceptance. With a nod to the similarly cursed Greek hero Oedipus, Camus concludes that "all is well," indeed, that "one must imagine Sisyphus happy."
I feel like what God is telling me is to follow through with my duties, goals, my individual meanings of life even when there's no light at the end of the tunnel. To not fully give up on myself to fall victim of hedonism or nihilism, but to aim for my goals while being happy doing so.
Kind of like optimism, but accepting that things won't necessarily turn out as you expect them to, so therefore instead of hope for the future it's more like acceptance of the future while also trying to mold it. The two are not contradictory.
Miracles (or magic) are exceptions from the laws of nature.That is true, but it depends on how you view 'miracles'.
Like miracles to laws of nature, mercy is an exception to justice. Nature doesn't do mercy but nature does the ultimate, blind justice. When you fall from a tall building, you get accelerated by 9.81 m/s², just like anybody else, no exception.Like I've said, the universe appears to have no justice (unless you believe in reincarnation like sayak83 mentioned), so to believe that the child that survives a car crash but everyone else dies a miracle would be far fetched for me.
Children being born with diseases, or disfigurements.
Good people dying, bad people getting far in life.
You could be on your way to beating depression, becoming religious, and trusting God, and then one day before you achieve all your goals, you're out hiking and you're attacked by a bear. Killed.
You could have gone to school, became a great genius, but never getting into a career long enough to make a breakthrough.
Any of this can happen. Assume, now, there is a God and the universe is going exactly they way God planned it. This is His design, everything that happens is exactly as it's meant to be.
What do you think the message is here? What do you interpret the meaning of our chaotic universe to be based on everything we know?
If you were to ask me, I sometimes feel like life is much like Albert Camus's view on Sisyphus. From this wikipedia article:
Camus is interested in Sisyphus's thoughts when marching down the mountain, to start anew. After the stone falls back down the mountain Camus states that "It is during that return, that pause, that Sisyphus interests me. A face that toils so close to stones is already stone itself! I see that man going back down with a heavy yet measured step toward the torment of which he will never know the end." This is the truly tragic moment when the hero becomes conscious of his wretched condition. He does not have hope, but "there is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn." Acknowledging the truth will conquer it; Sisyphus, just like the absurd man, continues pushing. Camus claims that when Sisyphus acknowledges the futility of his task and the certainty of his fate, he is freed to realize the absurdity of his situation and to reach a state of contented acceptance. With a nod to the similarly cursed Greek hero Oedipus, Camus concludes that "all is well," indeed, that "one must imagine Sisyphus happy."
I feel like what God is telling me is to follow through with my duties, goals, my individual meanings of life even when there's no light at the end of the tunnel. To not fully give up on myself to fall victim of hedonism or nihilism, but to aim for my goals while being happy doing so.
Kind of like optimism, but accepting that things won't necessarily turn out as you expect them to, so therefore instead of hope for the future it's more like acceptance of the future while also trying to mold it. The two are not contradictory.
I'm merely one of the universe's tenants.
Yes, pretty muchI was under the impression that amoral meant the lack of moral. I suspect we are in agreement?
I'm not the universe, so I get to judge.
Of course, I'll use my personal standards.
So behave yourself.
I feel like what God is telling me is to follow through with my duties, goals, my individual meanings of life even when there's no light at the end of the tunnel. To not fully give up on myself to fall victim of hedonism or nihilism, but to aim for my goals while being happy doing so.
Kind of like optimism, but accepting that things won't necessarily turn out as you expect them to, so therefore instead of hope for the future it's more like acceptance of the future while also trying to mold it. The two are not contradictory.
The universe will get its rentWell, your rent is overdue, and that party last week was too noisy. So pipe down.
Sincerely, the Universe.