Concerning? Ring of Power

[Nimos]

That has me worried because Jar Jar Abrams has slaughtered and butchered everything he's touched. ESPECIALLY Star Trek.

Exactly that is just one of the things left in his path of destruction.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Exactly that is just one of the things left in his path of destruction.

I'm not excited for this show anymore because Jar Jar clearly showed us he has no idea what Star Trek is. Not an inkling, clue, absolutely no knowledge at all what makes Star Trek Star Trek, with a strong chance he doesn't appreciate it for what it is nor respect it enough to learn and properly portray it. He took a chainsaw, blowtorch, steak knife and an assortment of blunt weapons to it. And then he performed a blind vivisection of Star Wars.
Someone needs to stop this man from further tarnishing and crapping on art. And can we expect better from his own approved lackeys who helped him disgrace greatness? I have my doubts.

 

[Nimos]

I'm not excited for this show anymore because Jar Jar clearly showed us he has no idea what Star Trek is. Not an inkling, clue, absolutely no knowledge at all what makes Star Trek Star Trek. He took a chainsaw, blowtorch, steak knife and an assortment of blunt weapons to it. And then he performed a blind vivisection of Star Wars.
Someone needs to stop this man from further tarnishing and crapping on art. And can we expect better from his own approved lackeys who helped him disgrace greatness? I have my doubts.

Well there is not a lot of franchises left for me, I actually think Lord of the rings is the last one And Abrams isn't involved which is good. But my fear is that these two guys, might have "learn" to much from him that they think that if they just do as him, then they will make something good.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well there is not a lot of franchises left for me, I actually think Lord of the rings is the last one And Abrams isn't involved which is good. But my fear is that these two guys, might have "learn" to much from him that they think that if they just do as him, then they will make something good.

Yeah. That has crushed my hopes and excitement for this show. Their mentor taught them how to disrespect canon, turn very emotionally heavy plot points into cheap throw away lines, and totally disregard and ignore what it is that makes something into what it is. Such as with Star Trek. It is heavily saturated with philosophical ponderings and according to Roddenberry Star Trek is about morality. He took all that out and made it dumb, run of the mill action mill that is pleasing for the masses who hate thinking and believe too much thinking and learning is bad for you.
These two, as they were involved with the heinous and brutal murder of Star Trek I have no hopes for them respecting Tolkien's lore and canon and how the stories have been typically been portrayed.

 

[SomeRandom]

I mean they have to, a lot of these locations doesn't exist but can obviously build some of them and most likely will. But some of them they simply can't. And again its not necessarily bad, but a lot of care need to be put into making things look good and believable and most the stuff I have seen at least, looks good. But then again, in a trailer where the scene changes every 2 second you don't really get the correct impression.

Hmm, yeah. One would think with that the increase in technological advancements CGI would run a little bit more smoothly.

I like the lore and the stories and fantasy in general, but im probably an average person when it comes to these things. But I do have an interest in movies and stuff like that. But im not a person that knows every little thing about any of this, but I do like watching stuff, made by people that do. If that makes sense? So my interest is probably above average, but far from what I would call a nerd knowledge

Ahh fair enough

Me neither, I did, again like it as a sci fi movie, because I like fantasy and sci fi, I thought it had a lot of cool things in it, all the aliens, space battles, the force was cool etc. But when these things are ruined, like the force in Disney is just magic now, there are no limits to what people can do, and they can do it when its convenient for the plot and not when it isn't. I don't like that, because despite being sci fi or fantasy, there still need to be rules.

Yeah. I kind of lost track of the rules of Star Wars ages ago, truth be told lol

For instance when you make it so people can suddenly heal each other, or raise people from dead or something like that. It hugely impact the story, rather than just looking cool, because imagine how insanely it would change the world, if people could suddenly heal just by putting their hand on a wound. And to me, all these things need to be explained or I lose interest. And Star wars with Disney have just thrown around these powers like there is no tomorrow, so nothing makes sense anymore and the result is, that all the characters capable of using the force looks like complete idiots, because they "can't" use it as it would ruin the story, despite it being the obvious choice.

I have to agree with you there

Sure they have, it is fantasy with trolls and orcs etc. But I don't understand people (Not aimed at you ) that thinks its perfectly fine that whenever something is fantasy or sci fi, then its fine that it is silly and doesn't really make sense. Again, such worlds still need to be believable and make sense despite the magic or whatever in them.

Well I was kind of referring to some of the scenes involving Gimli. In the movies he’s more of a comic relief than in the books. He gets off the hook mostly because he is still a good fighter in the movie trilogy.
Also I never quite liked Sauron in the PJ movie adaption. I don’t know, wasn’t the best adaptation of the character in my opinion. But eh, oh well.

Just think about, if you have seen it? that light jump that is done in the second Disney movie that destroy the big ship? It seems like a very minor thing, but that single thing, pretty much ruins the original movies, because nothing they do or plan etc. in those movies make any sense anymore. You light speed anything larger than a football into the death star and it is completely destroyed, which is why it is established in the OT that it is not possible to do.

Omg I’d kind of forgotten that. I remember seeing that in the cinema and my friend, who is a die hard Star Wars fan, damn near threw her popcorn at the screen lol

And that is sort of my fear with Rings of Power as well, that they start doing stuff, which end up ruining Lord of the Rings, because they don't know why something is as it is, or they might not care about it, because they think its cool and its fantasy anyway, so who cares?

Yes. Adaptions can be good or very unfaithful.
I can understand changing elements to fit into running times or even just for practical reasons. Sometimes changes are just dumb though
Like in Jackson’s adaption. He tried to give Arwen more to do than in the books. And at first it worked fine. Exploring her decision a bit more in depth and having her save Frodo. It was cool
But then they tied her fate to the Ring, which made no sense and they kind of didn’t bother explain the connection properly. Just forgot about her until her wedding lol

 

[Nimos]

Yeah. That has crushed my hopes and excitement for this show. Their mentor taught them how to disrespect canon, turn very emotionally heavy plot points into cheap throw away lines, and totally disregard and ignore what it is that makes something into what it is. Such as with Star Trek. It is heavily saturated with philosophical ponderings and according to Roddenberry Star Trek is about morality. He took all that out and made it dumb, run of the mill action mill that is pleasing for the masses who hate thinking and believe too much thinking and learning is bad for you.
These two, as they were involved with the heinous and brutal murder of Star Trek I have no hopes for them respecting Tolkien's lore and canon and how the stories have been typically been portrayed.

This is a quote from them, which is very concerning I think

He added, “It was like Tolkien put some stars in the sky and let us make out the constellations. We’re doing what Tolkien wanted. As long as we felt like every invention of ours was true to his essence, we knew we were on the right track.”

Fellow showrunner McKay called “The Rings of Power” the result of being “stewards” to the source material.

Now I actually just watch a video about what Tolkien said about people making use of his material and I doubt that these guys are doing what Tolkien wanted based on what he said

Tolkien wrote a letter to someone that wanted to make a movie of Lord of the rings, this is part of his reply it is rather long. But its to a person call Zimmerman, also referred to as Z:

If Z and/or others do so, they may be irritated or aggrieved by the tone of many of my criticisms. If so, I am sorry (though not surprised). But I would ask them to make an effort of imagination sufficient to understand the irritation (and on occasion the resentment) of an author, who finds, increasingly as he proceeds, his work treated as it would seem carelessly in general, in places recklessly, and with no evident signs of any appreciation of what it is all about...

The canons of narrative an in any medium cannot be wholly different; and the failure of poor films is often precisely in exaggeration, and in the intrusion of unwarranted matter owing to not perceiving where the core of the original lies. Z .... has intruded a 'fairy castle' and a great many Eagles, not to mention incantations, blue lights, and some irrelevant magic (such as the floating body of Faramir). He has cut the parts of the story upon which its characteristic and peculiar tone principally depends, showing a preference for fights; and he has made no serious attempt to represent the heart of the tale adequately: the journey of the Ringbearers. The last and most important pan of this has, and it is not too strong a word, simply been murdered.

7. The first paragraph misrepresents Tom Bombadil. He is not the owner of the woods; and he would never make any such threat. 'Old scamp!' This is a good example of the general tendency that I find in Z to reduce and lower the tone towards that of a more childish fairy-tale. The expression does not agree with the tone of Bombadil's long later talk; and though that is cut, there is no need for its indications to be disregarded.

8 line 24. The landlord does not ask Frodo to 'register'!2 Why should he? There are no police and no government. (Neither do I make him number his rooms.) If details are to be added to an already crowded picture, they should at least fit the world described.

...There is no fight. Sam does not 'sink his blade into the Ringwraith's thigh', nor does his thrust save Frodo's life. (If he had, the result would have been much the same as in III 117-20:4 the Wraith would have fallen down and the sword would have been destroyed.) Why has my account been entirely rewritten here, with disregard for the rest of the tale?...

...At the bottom of the page, the Eagles are again introduced. I feel this to be a wholly unacceptable tampering with the tale. 'Nine Walkers' and they immediately go up in the air! The intrusion achieves nothing but incredibility, and the staling of the...

20. The Balrog never speaks or makes any vocal sound at all. Above all he does not laugh or sneer. .... Z may think that he knows more about Balrogs than I do, but he cannot expect me to agree with him.

Will Z please pay my text some respect, at least in descriptions that are obviously central to the general tone and style of the book! I will in no circumstances accept this treatment of Lórien, even if Z personally prefers 'tiny' fairies and the gimcrack of conventional modern fairy-tales.



This is just part of the letter knows as 210... now read the statement again and imagine what Tolkien might say?

He added, “It was like Tolkien put some stars in the sky and let us make out the constellations. We’re doing what Tolkien wanted. As long as we felt like every invention of ours was true to his essence, we knew we were on the right track.”

Fellow showrunner McKay called “The Rings of Power” the result of being “stewards” to the source material.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This is a quote from them, which is very concerning I think

He added, “It was like Tolkien put some stars in the sky and let us make out the constellations. We’re doing what Tolkien wanted. As long as we felt like every invention of ours was true to his essence, we knew we were on the right track.”

Fellow showrunner McKay called “The Rings of Power” the result of being “stewards” to the source material.

Now I actually just watch a video about what Tolkien said about people making use of his material and I doubt that these guys are doing what Tolkien wanted based on what he said

Tolkien wrote a letter to someone that wanted to make a movie of Lord of the rings, this is part of his reply it is rather long. But its to a person call Zimmerman, also referred to as Z:

If Z and/or others do so, they may be irritated or aggrieved by the tone of many of my criticisms. If so, I am sorry (though not surprised). But I would ask them to make an effort of imagination sufficient to understand the irritation (and on occasion the resentment) of an author, who finds, increasingly as he proceeds, his work treated as it would seem carelessly in general, in places recklessly, and with no evident signs of any appreciation of what it is all about...

The canons of narrative an in any medium cannot be wholly different; and the failure of poor films is often precisely in exaggeration, and in the intrusion of unwarranted matter owing to not perceiving where the core of the original lies. Z .... has intruded a 'fairy castle' and a great many Eagles, not to mention incantations, blue lights, and some irrelevant magic (such as the floating body of Faramir). He has cut the parts of the story upon which its characteristic and peculiar tone principally depends, showing a preference for fights; and he has made no serious attempt to represent the heart of the tale adequately: the journey of the Ringbearers. The last and most important pan of this has, and it is not too strong a word, simply been murdered.

7. The first paragraph misrepresents Tom Bombadil. He is not the owner of the woods; and he would never make any such threat. 'Old scamp!' This is a good example of the general tendency that I find in Z to reduce and lower the tone towards that of a more childish fairy-tale. The expression does not agree with the tone of Bombadil's long later talk; and though that is cut, there is no need for its indications to be disregarded.

8 line 24. The landlord does not ask Frodo to 'register'!2 Why should he? There are no police and no government. (Neither do I make him number his rooms.) If details are to be added to an already crowded picture, they should at least fit the world described.

...There is no fight. Sam does not 'sink his blade into the Ringwraith's thigh', nor does his thrust save Frodo's life. (If he had, the result would have been much the same as in III 117-20:4 the Wraith would have fallen down and the sword would have been destroyed.) Why has my account been entirely rewritten here, with disregard for the rest of the tale?...

...At the bottom of the page, the Eagles are again introduced. I feel this to be a wholly unacceptable tampering with the tale. 'Nine Walkers' and they immediately go up in the air! The intrusion achieves nothing but incredibility, and the staling of the...

20. The Balrog never speaks or makes any vocal sound at all. Above all he does not laugh or sneer. .... Z may think that he knows more about Balrogs than I do, but he cannot expect me to agree with him.

Will Z please pay my text some respect, at least in descriptions that are obviously central to the general tone and style of the book! I will in no circumstances accept this treatment of Lórien, even if Z personally prefers 'tiny' fairies and the gimcrack of conventional modern fairy-tales.



This is just part of the letter knows as 210... now read the statement again and imagine what Tolkien might say?

He added, “It was like Tolkien put some stars in the sky and let us make out the constellations. We’re doing what Tolkien wanted. As long as we felt like every invention of ours was true to his essence, we knew we were on the right track.”

Fellow showrunner McKay called “The Rings of Power” the result of being “stewards” to the source material.

Sounds like they need fired and promptly replaced by Stephen Colbert (he's resoundly defeated even Peter Jackson on Tolkien trivia and knowledge), as they brought none of that respect and stewardship to Star Trek.

 

[Nimos]

Yeah. I kind of lost track of the rules of Star Wars ages ago, truth be told lol

Well at least they are easy to follow now, as there is none

Well I was kind of referring to some of the scenes involving Gimli. In the movies he’s more of a comic relief than in the books. He gets off the hook mostly because he is still a good fighter in the movie trilogy.
Also I never quite liked Sauron in the PJ movie adaption. I don’t know, wasn’t the best adaptation of the character in my opinion. But eh, oh well.

I think both of these characters (Gimli and Sauron) would have made Tolkien very mad, Gimli is almost a complete joke in the movies and is treated very disrespectful, compared to the books. I really hated that.

And Legolas is simply over heroic I think. I personally can accept Sauron. But I think its very sad that PJ ruined Gimli, he is a very cool character in the book.

Omg I’d kind of forgotten that. I remember seeing that in the cinema and my friend, who is a die hard Star Wars fan, damn near threw her popcorn at the screen lol

That is the problem, when people that doesn't know what they are doing gets their hands on these franchises. Tolkien spend his whole life creating this universe... and then you have some people as I mentioned in the last post that say something like this:

We’re doing what Tolkien wanted. As long as we felt like every invention of ours was true to his essence, we knew we were on the right track.

How full of yourself can you be? At least Peter Jackson openly said that they wanted or aimed at making Tolkien vision and not their own.

And I fear that these writers and Amazon given they want to make money, think that they can "improve/expand" on his work. And we have lots of example of people believing that they can do this, but nothing even remotely compared to how huge and expansive the lore behind Lord of the rings is.

Yes. Adaptions can be good or very unfaithful.
I can understand changing elements to fit into running times or even just for practical reasons. Sometimes changes are just dumb though
Like in Jackson’s adaption. He tried to give Arwen more to do than in the books. And at first it worked fine. Exploring her decision a bit more in depth and having her save Frodo. It was cool
But then they tied her fate to the Ring, which made no sense and they kind of didn’t bother explain the connection properly. Just forgot about her until her wedding lol

Yeah, there are things that are fine, and I don't think PJ did anything that ruins the story. He could easily have thought, as he did in the Hobbit, Im just going to add some extra characters, and it doesn't work, it sucked *** in the Hobbit as well. Giving Arwen some extra time, I think is fine, and its not like she suddenly becomes the Ringbearer instead of Frodo etc. But it is a fine line, and you need to be an exceptional good writer to pull a stunt like that. Which is also why i don't like when these writers start to add and change established lore.

 

[Nimos]

Sounds like they need fired and promptly replaced by Stephen Colbert (he's resoundly defeated even Peter Jackson on Tolkien trivia and knowledge), as they brought none of that respect and stewardship to Star Trek.

I don't know if they should be fired, again we have to wait an see. But I do think there is a lot of concerning things. Again, we know it, these directors are not shy of putting their own ego on these things as if they are so talented that they can easily improve them. And again and again, we end up with something that is simply ruined.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't know if they should be fired, again we have to wait an see. But I do think there is a lot of concerning things. Again, we know it, these directors are not shy of putting their own ego on these things as if they are so talented that they can easily improve them. And again and again, we end up with something that is simply ruined.

I've seen what the one they learned from has done in regards to respecting canon. I'm too pessimistic for a wait and see. Get rid of them now and replace them with someone who actually will respect Tolkien's canon.

 

[SomeRandom]

Well at least they are easy to follow now, as there is none

Hahah that is true

I think both of these characters (Gimli and Sauron) would have made Tolkien very mad, Gimli is almost a complete joke in the movies and is treated very disrespectful, compared to the books. I really hated that.

Yeah I so agree. Though I had a huge crush on Legolas as a kid so I can easily overlook how “way too OP” Jackson made him
Same thing happened with movie Hermione and Ron from the Harry Potter franchise, incidentally. Many of Hermione’s book flaws were written out and even given to Ron.
Ron’s book contributions meanwhile were given to Hermione. As a fan of the books, that really annoyed me and the fanbase in general I think lol

And Legolas is simply over heroic I think. I personally can accept Sauron. But I think its very sad that PJ ruined Gimli, he is a very cool character in the book.

Totally agree. But I liked movie Gimli well enough. Book Gimli is way more awesome though.
Sauron to me seemed way too over the top evil. Like I get it from a dramatic standpoint. But still didn’t sit right with me. At least after I actually read the books properly
(I saw the films when I was like 8-12ish so they were a little advanced for me then lol)

That is the problem, when people that doesn't know what they are doing gets their hands on these franchises. Tolkien spend his whole life creating this universe... and then you have some people as I mentioned in the last post that say something like this:

We’re doing what Tolkien wanted. As long as we felt like every invention of ours was true to his essence, we knew we were on the right track.

Not a good sign. Agreed

How full of yourself can you be? At least Peter Jackson openly said that they wanted or aimed at making Tolkien vision and not their own.

Yeah for all the flaws in the films, Jackson was clearly an actual fanboy of Tolkien, showing deference to his work rather than his own interpretation.
At least in the Rings trilogy. I have only seen the first Hobbit movie so I can’t comment on those adaptions lol

And I fear that these writers and Amazon given they want to make money, think that they can "improve/expand" on his work. And we have lots of example of people believing that they can do this, but nothing even remotely compared to how huge and expansive the lore behind Lord of the rings is.

True

Yeah, there are things that are fine, and I don't think PJ did anything that ruins the story. He could easily have thought, as he did in the Hobbit, Im just going to add some extra characters, and it doesn't work, it sucked *** in the Hobbit as well. Giving Arwen some extra time, I think is fine, and its not like she suddenly becomes the Ringbearer instead of Frodo etc. But it is a fine line, and you need to be an exceptional good writer to pull a stunt like that. Which is also why i don't like when these writers start to add and change established lore.

Yeah I agree
I appreciate your respect for established lore. Many folks often abandon that in favour of flashy adaptions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

At least in the Rings trilogy. I have only seen the first Hobbit movie so I can’t comment on those adaptions lol

He dug DEEP into the appendices of the lore of Arda to drag it out into three movies and to help tie it more into the Lord of the Rings.

 

[Nimos]

Yeah I so agree. Though I had a huge crush on Legolas as a kid so I can easily overlook how “way too OP” Jackson made him
Same thing happened with movie Hermione and Ron from the Harry Potter franchise, incidentally. Many of Hermione’s book flaws were written out and even given to Ron.
Ron’s book contributions meanwhile were given to Hermione. As a fan of the books, that really annoyed me and the fanbase in general I think lol

I have never been a Harry Potter fan, I enjoy the movies for being fantasy etc. But never read any of the books etc. So I wouldn't notice these things, it is kind of funny though, because I always thought or got the impression that Rowling was heavily involved in the films as well, because she wanted them to be "correct". But maybe I misunderstood that.

Yeah for all the flaws in the films, Jackson was clearly an actual fanboy of Tolkien, showing deference to his work rather than his own interpretation.
At least in the Rings trilogy. I have only seen the first Hobbit movie so I can’t comment on those adaptions lol

I think the Hobbit movies are entertaining, but not even close to the Lord of the rings. But for instance, Legolas and that elven girl Tauriel, is not in the book at all, they were just added, because I think Legolas were popular and some sort of romantic story were needed, so they added the elven girl, so she could fall in love with the dwarf, which were just silly as well. And Legolas gets even more overpowered in this one in regards to some of the things he does, which to me did not improve it.

Yeah I agree
I appreciate your respect for established lore. Many folks often abandon that in favour of flashy adaptions.

To me, it comes down to two things basically. First of all, because the author might have had a reason for making things the way they are, and unless you as a person has exceptional knowledge of the story, then you shouldn't mess with it. Secondly, I think its also plain an simple respect for the author, now in certain cases I have no issue with them changing minor things, like PJ giving the Balrog wings etc. It doesn't ruin the movie. But im not a huge fan of them for instance starting to change a whole race, like how the dwarfs are suppose to look, when Tolkien explicitly wrote how they looked. Same with the elf's, if Tolkien wrote that they have pointy ears, then they should have that. And I don't want to see them add a Gelf race with big square ears, that are even better than the Elf's, just because Tolkien didn't wrote that they couldn't exist or because the writers think that it would be cool. Which is sort of what they do with the new hobbit race in Rings of Power, the Hobbits play absolutely no role at all in the time period where Rings of Power takes place.

So when you read something like this:
"One of the very specific things the texts say is that hobbits never did anything historic or noteworthy before the Third Age," McKay explained before revealing just what kind of extra notes are going to be added to the show. "But really, does it feel like Middle-earth if you don't have hobbits or something like hobbits in it?"

And the answer is that "Yes it would!!" because its a completely different time period. But what they are doing in my opinion, is not understanding the source material and adding this new race, means that they have to give them a somewhat important part to play, unless they just want them to be there, because people like and expect Hobbits, in which case they just become silly. And to me, an argument like that, simply doesn't justify why they want them to be there. Because it is not based on whether or not it make sense, but purely to "meet" people's expectations.

 

[Nimos]

I've seen what the one they learned from has done in regards to respecting canon. I'm too pessimistic for a wait and see. Get rid of them now and replace them with someone who actually will respect Tolkien's canon.

Well you can be happy, that the writers of Ring of Power, also worked or "helped" making Star Trek - beyond, produced by JJ Abrams, so what could go wrong?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well you can be happy, that the writers of Ring of Power, also worked or "helped" making Star Trek - beyond, produced by JJ Abrams, so what could go wrong?

Everything.

 

[SomeRandom]

I have never been a Harry Potter fan, I enjoy the movies for being fantasy etc. But never read any of the books etc. So I wouldn't notice these things, it is kind of funny though, because I always thought or got the impression that Rowling was heavily involved in the films as well, because she wanted them to be "correct". But maybe I misunderstood that.

Yes, Rowling was heavily involved in the film adaptions. Hell the first two are pretty much verbatim from the books.
But the series went through several directors and became less and less accurate. Rowling had final say over many of the scripts, I’m pretty sure. but she allowed more changes as the series went on. Many fans suspect due to her changing priories and perhaps her not always being a literalist like some authors can be. Also her being a little overwhelmed by the process. Like the books literally gave her a “rags to riches” story overnight
The movies were fairly faithful to the books all the way through, there were many “artistic liberties” taken though.

I think the Hobbit movies are entertaining, but not even close to the Lord of the rings. But for instance, Legolas and that elven girl Tauriel, is not in the book at all, they were just added, because I think Legolas were popular and some sort of romantic story were needed, so they added the elven girl, so she could fall in love with the dwarf, which were just silly as well. And Legolas gets even more overpowered in this one in regards to some of the things he does, which to me did not improve it.

Ahh. Fair enough

To me, it comes down to two things basically. First of all, because the author might have had a reason for making things the way they are, and unless you as a person has exceptional knowledge of the story, then you shouldn't mess with it. Secondly, I think its also plain an simple respect for the author, now in certain cases I have no issue with them changing minor things, like PJ giving the Balrog wings etc. It doesn't ruin the movie. But im not a huge fan of them for instance starting to change a whole race, like how the dwarfs are suppose to look, when Tolkien explicitly wrote how they looked. Same with the elf's, if Tolkien wrote that they have pointy ears, then they should have that. And I don't want to see them add a Gelf race with big square ears, that are even better than the Elf's, just because Tolkien didn't wrote that they couldn't exist or because the writers think that it would be cool. Which is sort of what they do with the new hobbit race in Rings of Power, the Hobbits play absolutely no role at all in the time period where Rings of Power takes place.

So when you read something like this:
"One of the very specific things the texts say is that hobbits never did anything historic or noteworthy before the Third Age," McKay explained before revealing just what kind of extra notes are going to be added to the show. "But really, does it feel like Middle-earth if you don't have hobbits or something like hobbits in it?"

And the answer is that "Yes it would!!" because its a completely different time period. But what they are doing in my opinion, is not understanding the source material and adding this new race, means that they have to give them a somewhat important part to play, unless they just want them to be there, because people like and expect Hobbits, in which case they just become silly. And to me, an argument like that, simply doesn't justify why they want them to be there. Because it is not based on whether or not it make sense, but purely to "meet" people's expectations.

Yeah I agree. I recognise that liberties will be taken when adapting anything to film. So I can forgive minor changes to move the story along or to make it cinematic. Like I’m pretty sure they moved the story order around a bit in Return of the King, with regards to Shelobe, iirc
But it has to make sense within the lore. If they’re adding Hobbits just because the folks want Hobbits then they just want the publicity, imo

 

[sun rise]

this world is believable

Great point. I start losing it when I start thinking "hey wait a minute..." when a plot becomes unbelievable especially if it triggers my "Evil Overlord" rule. In other words if someone has to be a blithering idiot for the plot to work, forget it. I'll start checking out.

For example:

• One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation.
• I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one thing I want to know."
• When my guards split up to search for intruders, they will always travel in groups of at least two. They will be trained so that if one of them disappears mysteriously while on patrol, the other will immediately initiate an alert and call for backup, instead of quizzically peering around a corner.
• If a group of henchmen fail miserably at a task, I will not berate them for incompetence then send the same group out to try the task again.

 

[Nimos]

Great point. I start losing it when I start thinking "hey wait a minute..." when a plot becomes unbelievable especially if it triggers my "Evil Overlord" rule. In other words if someone has to be a blithering idiot for the plot to work, forget it. I'll start checking out.

For example:

• One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation.
• I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one thing I want to know."
• When my guards split up to search for intruders, they will always travel in groups of at least two. They will be trained so that if one of them disappears mysteriously while on patrol, the other will immediately initiate an alert and call for backup, instead of quizzically peering around a corner.
• If a group of henchmen fail miserably at a task, I will not berate them for incompetence then send the same group out to try the task again.

I agree and some genres are pretty much based on this, if you think standard teen horror movie, its always some young people stuck somewhere with something strange going on. The first thing they do is to go into the dark cellar alone... and get murdered or something like that.

And in that case its fine, because we kind of expect that this is how these movies operate. But it doesn't work, if the person is suppose to be intelligent etc. and then keep doing things which aren't.

 

[SomeRandom]

I agree and some genres are pretty much based on this, if you think standard teen horror movie, its always some young people stuck somewhere with something strange going on. The first thing they do is to go into the dark cellar alone... and get murdered or something like that.

And in that case its fine, because we kind of expect that this is how these movies operate. But it doesn't work, if the person is suppose to be intelligent etc. and then keep doing things which aren't.

Incidentally mocking those very tropes is one of the reasons I loved the first two in the “Scary Movie” franchise.
(After that the series went downhill imo.)
And indeed the first 2 Scream films that Scary Movie also mocked lol
It included all the stupid elements one expects and excuses from teen slasher movies, but also frequently mocked them. Whilst keeping characters who were actually intelligent in the mix.
There’s authenticity and respect for the source material, even as they mock them.

And authenticity is why I loved Christopher Lee’s performance in the Lord of the Rings trilogy in particular. If you seen any of his interviews then you know why he made certain acting choices. He was real life friends with Tolkien and pronounced everything true to how it was by the author out of respect. I thought that was classy

 

[Nimos]

Incidentally mocking those very tropes is one of the reasons I loved the first two in the “Scary Movie” franchise.
(After that the series went downhill imo.)
And indeed the first 2 Scream films that Scary Movie also mocked lol
It included all the stupid elements one expects and excuses from teen slasher movies, but also frequently mocked them. Whilst keeping characters who were actually intelligent in the mix.
There’s authenticity and respect for the source material, even as they mock them.

And authenticity is why I loved Christopher Lee’s performance in the Lord of the Rings trilogy in particular. If you seen any of his interviews then you know why he made certain acting choices. He was real life friends with Tolkien and pronounced everything true to how it was by the author out of respect. I thought that was classy

Yeah, comedy has its own rules and I do enjoy movies like Space balls making fun of Star wars etc.

Not that its a movie, but its creative

And its not because I have anything against these horror/slasher movies, they are not my kind of movies, because I think they are boring, but they also don't really try to sell themselves as anything with deep characters and plot lines etc. And some enjoy them, which is fine.

The problem with the Ring of Power in my opinion, again just speculations and based on what other stuff we have seen happening with other franchises, is that one could be scared of Amazon wanting to change Tolkien's work, so what we get is nothing like LOTR, by merely a modern diversity series loosely based on his work, so we are getting lots of new characters, of all races, all sexualities not because it makes sense for the story, but because that is how you make movies today. Modern movies HAS to represent all minorities, races and sexes at least somewhat equally, so they can check off all the checkboxes.

This is how you make a woman look strong today:

Its not by value woman strength, its by making them more like men. And if I were a woman, I would find it highly offensive, because none of this in my opinion is aimed at showing how women are strong. Giving her an armor, a big sword and make her sit like you would expect a man to sit for logical reasons, is simply offensive I think, when there are so many other ways you can make women appear strong without having to "destroy" their gender. And I don't get why women would buy into such rubbish and not speak out against it is strange to me.

If you take a show like Vikings, with Agatha

She is both a leader and a warrior, but she is not depicted as a "man", but rather a strong, intelligent women. Anyway, I think all this diversity has gotten completely out of control in modern day movies.