Exclusive: Russia Backs Europe’s Far Right

[Revoltingest]

I am against all wars...so I do not condone such things. EU.

And yet....
Putin invaded Ukraine, killing thousands, destroying homes,
& driving millions to other countries. You say he's "good".
This not what a good person does. It's evil.
He & his invaders should get the death they deserve ASAP.

 

[exchemist]

One can also think of a border as being a spectrum. On one end, it can be like a huge walled-off bunker of a wall, and on the other end, it can be fully permeable. If it is fully permeable, though still 'there,' it de facto does not really exist

Also, your understanding of communism is different from mine. Communists nationalize culture as well as economics, so that means that they would be quick to externalize the content of other nations

Your association of this spectrum with the Left-Right spectrum is flawed, I think. It is the economic Right that is associated with removal of trade barriers and protectionism, and with globalisation of the economy.

 

[Estro Felino]

And yet....
Putin invaded Ukraine, killing thousands, destroying homes,
& driving millions to other countries. You say he's "good".
This not what a good person does. It's evil.
He & his invaders should get the death they deserve ASAP.

Yes...but this thread is about European rightists.
Their perspective.

 

[Stevicus]

I think russia is doing something pretty bad here, but I definitely think it's weird that the left seems to be defending ukraine on the pretext of nationalism. When the 'slava ukraini' slogan is used, that isn't technically what the left ever really stood for, since it historically favors a plurality of people working together to form a country. The end goal is actually a world without borders - which I think would be respectable, given the existence of wmds. That those on the 'left' dislike what is happening, is due to the fact that war is particularly evil

It depends. The left tended to support national liberation movements in the colonial world when the indigenous populations were fighting for their freedom and independence.

So, at least to some degree, they were indirectly supporting the ideological position of nationalism - mainly because they had a shared enemy: The imperialist/capitalist governments of the "first world" which held hegemony over most of the world at the time.

This approach may have been politically expedient and convenient for the left at the time, and it seemed right to support nationalism and national liberation for the oppressed, while opposing the nationalism and imperialism of the oppressors. But it seems that they've painted themselves into an ideological corner, which has hampered and weakened the left these past few decades.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes...but this thread is about European rightists.
Their perspective.

And I explained why they like Putin's personal brand of evil.

 

[ChristineM]

You are entitled to your opinions.

It just saddens me that people think Soros is good, whereas Putin is wicked.
It is like calling good evil and evil good.

As you are entitled to yours. But remember, it is your opinion and not the default state of Italy.

Who mentioned Soros??? You do love being him into a discussion didn't you so pray tell, WTF has Soros got to do with anything about this thread?

And Putin is commanding the murder/genocide/destruction of an indipendent country for basically selfish reasons. How is that NOT wicked?

 

[Stevicus]

All the moderate left of centre parties I am aware of in Europe support the nation state. I am unaware of any that call for national borders to be dissolved. Even Jeremy Corbyn wanted the UK to leave the EU, to make it easier to build socialism in one country.

Well, John Lennon wrote "Imagine there's no countries." In general, I've heard people talk about "one world" and a "world without borders" rather frequently over the years, even if it may not be part of any official party platform. It seems more of a long-term goal, just like some people often say "End world hunger," even though deep down people know it probably won't happen.

Nationalism is typically associated with the right wing, whereas internationalism tends to be associated with the left wing - at least traditionally, although exceptions abound. That's where both sides can become a bit ideologically compromised.

 

[Estro Felino]

And I explained why they like Putin's personal brand of evil.

Yes...and I am afraid you are wrong.
Because I did meet European Nationalists.
And they told me they need a strong figure like Putin to fight the EU, people like Schwabb...economic neo-liberism.

 

[Estro Felino]

Who mentioned Soros???

The OP

 

[exchemist]

Well, John Lennon wrote "Imagine there's no countries." In general, I've heard people talk about "one world" and a "world without borders" rather frequently over the years, even if it may not be part of any official party platform. It seems more of a long-term goal, just like some people often say "End world hunger," even though deep down people know it probably won't happen.

Nationalism is typically associated with the right wing, whereas internationalism tends to be associated with the left wing - at least traditionally, although exceptions abound. That's where both sides can become a bit ideologically compromised.

John Lennon was not, so far as I can recall, a major political leader.

 

[Revoltingest]

Nationalism is typically associated with the right wing....

Only by the left. Nationalism can afflicts both, eg,
N Korea, China, Cuba.

 

[ChristineM]

The OP

Yes, in sarcasm and you fell for it

 

[Estro Felino]

Only by the left. Nationalism can afflicts both, eg,
N Korea, China, Cuba.

Rizzo too.
Leader of Italian Communist Party.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.se...marco-rizzo-la-russia-lavora-per-la-pace/amp/

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes...and I am afraid you are wrong.
Because I did meet European Nationalists.
And they told me they need a strong figure like Putin to fight the EU, people like Schwabb...economic neo-liberism.

We must agree to disagree.

 

[Stevicus]

John Lennon was not, so far as I can recall, a major political leader.

He was a cultural leader, though. He had influence over how people looked at the world, which influences political views.

 

[Stevicus]

Only by the left. Nationalism can afflicts both, eg,
N Korea, China, Cuba.

You must have glossed over the part where I mentioned that the left supported national liberation movements and those who were oppressed by more powerful governments. However, this has caused them to become ideologically compromised, and it's (in my opinion) a large part of the reason why the left has been struggling in recent decades.

The West's increased support of the economic right has encouraged and emboldened support of the nationalist right, which has become a bigger problem now than it was 30-40 years ago.

 

[Estro Felino]

We must agree to disagree.

I do respect your opinion.

But... I can assure you it is all about economics.

For instance, M. Rizzo (Communist Party) and VoxItalia (Nationalist Party) do not mind justifying Russia.
What unites them? Far right and Far Left?

The hatred towards the Banking System unites them. And they think Putin is on their side.

 

[ChristineM]

I do respect your opinion.

But... I can assure you it is all about economics.

For instance, M. Rizzo (Communist Party) and VoxItalia (Nationalist Party) do not mind justifying Russia.
What unites them? Far right and Far Left?

The hatred towards the Banking System unites them. And they think Putin is on their side.

Personally i think its the voter draw of cheap gas from Russia that unites them but perhaps thats me being cynical..?

 

[fantome profane]

Well, John Lennon wrote "Imagine there's no countries."

The key word there being “Imagine”. You are not wrong here, but most people on the left are not quite so naïve or idealistic.

Most people on the left believe in national borders, they just want in understood that beyond those borders do not live a lesser people.

 

[Estro Felino]

Personally i think its the voter draw of cheap gas from Russia that unites them but perhaps thats me being cynical..?

Also.
Not everyone can afford expensive gas.