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Exclusive: Russia Backs Europe’s Far Right

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
You must have glossed over the part where I mentioned that the left supported national liberation movements and those who were oppressed by more powerful governments. However, this has caused them to become ideologically compromised, and it's (in my opinion) a large part of the reason why the left has been struggling in recent decades.

The West's increased support of the economic right has encouraged and emboldened support of the nationalist right, which has become a bigger problem now than it was 30-40 years ago.
It isn't "ideological compromise" by the left.
Both the left & right can be nationalistic.
The difference is that you idealize one, & demonize the other.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
...as long as the ECB compensates the losses.
Compensation is a good idea. When this is over Putin should personally be made to pay to rebuild every hospital, daycare centre, apartment building, shopping mall, and theatre he knocked down. And also pay a substantial recompense to the families of every person he murdered.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Why should it, they didn't start bombing and invading another country deliberately killing women and children in the process

Because the lounge-loving and carefree wealthy Brussels elites wanted the sanctions.
So they have to pay for them. And their consequences.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Because the lounge-loving and carefree wealthy Brussels elites wanted the sanctions.
So they have to pay for them. And their consequences.

Sanctions against a murdering dictator. Why do you have such a problem seeing facts and only accepting what you want to dream about?
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Sanctions against a murdering dictator. Why do you have such a problem seeing facts and only accepting what you want to dream about?

Because I am a populist and a socialist. So I defend the middle classes of Europe.

What the Brussels elites will not do.
They are too busy sipping cocktails in their lounges, to care about them.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Because I am a populist and a socialist. So I defend the middle classes of Europe.

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What the Brussels elites will not do.
They are too busy sipping cocktails in their lounges, to care about them.

They won't bail out putins like they are bailing out italy.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Of course

Actually as far as i know he didn't kill anyone, but like hitler he gave the command
Does anyone kill?
They only give the orders, push the button, pull the trigger,
or push the bayonet. Is responsibility so easily evaded?

I can't find the cartoon, but in Bloom County, Steve Dallas
(lawyer) travels in time to find clients. In one frame, he sits
with a forlorn Adolph Hitler, who says "I'm a victim too.".
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
Please excuse my not reading all of that. (Very long.)

Suffice to say that I know many conservatives, & it's
specious to say they all hate the Constitution, all hate
democracy, etc, etc.
Liberals & conservatives are so often at each others'
throats, imagining the worst....boiling children alive,
kicking puppies, etc, etc. There really are good people
on both sides.
BTW, there are also bad people on both sides.

We don't tolerate racism, sexism, & other prejudices.
Let's not be bigots regarding politics.
While I fully agree with your sentiments, it is the majority of Republican voters as well as the non-affiliated US voters who have demonstrated consistently that they can be/have been/and will be so readily led around by their short-sighted proverbial nose rings of fear/prejudice/ignorance in order to vote against their own best economic/military/geopolitical/liberty/freedom/environmental/religious/and national interests (along with those of everyone else). And the conservative politicians, and their conservative press (controlled by the conservative elite rich folks (which describes most of the rich) use them. The conservative politicians exploit the oh so willing and malleable Republican voters....AS A GROUP. Of course I talk with and am friends with multiple conservatives. They don't mean harm to our (and their own) world. But they have been purposefully misled into believing things that are patently false.

These false ideas force my conservative colleagues and friends to vote for conservative politicians.
The conservative politicians, for whatever reason they care to give, are fighting the US Constitution and the ideals of the "founding fathers", purely to gain and retain power for themselves. THEM, I blame. Their propaganda networks, I blame. They should know better. They DO know better. But for a quick buck (or million) they happily stuff our nation's morals and future into a canvas sack and repeatedly smash it with a rock, until its a bloody mash. :(
THEM; those so called 'conservatives', I will not forgive.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
While I fully agree with your sentiments, it is the majority of Republican voters as well as the non-affiliated US voters who have demonstrated consistently that they can be/have been/and will be so readily led around by their short-sighted proverbial nose rings of fear/prejudice/ignorance in order to vote against their own best economic/military/geopolitical/liberty/freedom/environmental/religious/and national interests (along with those of everyone else). And the conservative politicians, and their conservative press (controlled by the conservative elite rich folks (which describes most of the rich) use them. The conservative politicians exploit the oh so willing and malleable Republican voters....AS A GROUP. Of course I talk with and am friends with multiple conservatives. They don't mean harm to our (and their own) world. But they have been purposefully misled into believing things that are patently false.

These false ideas force my conservative colleagues and friends to vote for conservative politicians.
The conservative politicians, for whatever reason they care to give, are fighting the US Constitution and the ideals of the "founding fathers", purely to gain and retain power for themselves. THEM, I blame. Their propaganda networks, I blame. They should know better. They DO know better. But for a quick buck (or million) they happily stuff our nation's morals and future into a canvas sack and repeatedly smash it with a rock, until its a bloody mash. :(
THEM; those so called 'conservatives', I will not forgive.
Meh....both sides pose their own flavor of danger.
We can argue over which is worse, & in what way.
But that's irrelevant.
Whether it's the right's social oppression or the left's
economic authoritarianism, I've a bone to pick with both.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Like they are bailing out France?
If Macron okays the sanctions, I doubt he will be elected.
The French people will assault the palaces.
1789 docet.

Are they bailing out france? I don't believe so but one of the reasons Draghi was put in power after the last lot failed is that he has a good chance if placing the bail out money italy is recieving into the right places.

Not the fault of italy of course, the pandemic hit you hard and recovery is difficult.

If macron does not approve sanctions i doubt he'll be elected with such a majority. I think you have precisely the wrong opinion of current french ferling about putins murderous invasion
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Are they bailing out france? I don't believe so but one of the reasons Draghi was put in power after the last lot failed is that he has a good chance if placing the bail out money italy is recieving into the right places.

Not the fault of italy of course, the pandemic hit you hard and recovery is difficult.

If macron does not approve sanctions i doubt he'll be elected with such a majority. I think you have precisely the wrong opinion of current french ferling about putins murderous invasion

Draghi and Macron are cut from the same cloth.

They do not side with the people.
I sided with the gilets jaunes, three years ago. I do side with the people.
Macron used violence against the gilets jaunes.

So the Left who claims to side with the people is as credible as a 30 dollar bill.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
If macron does not approve sanctions i doubt he'll be elected with such a majority. I think you have precisely the wrong opinion of current french ferling about putins murderous invasion

Les Français could not care less about Russia.
They just want gas prices to be low.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The key word there being “Imagine”. You are not wrong here, but most people on the left are not quite so naïve or idealistic.

Most people on the left believe in national borders, they just want in understood that beyond those borders do not live a lesser people.

It's an ideal, just like "visualize world peace," even if we know deep down that it probably will never happen.

I don't know that the left necessarily believes in national borders as much as they believe in autonomy and self-determination. National borders may be a necessary tool to reasonably achieve that goal, but it's not the only way to do it.
 
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