Hope for things which are not seen.

[blü 2]

For what we cannot know - what comes after death, existence before birth, the origin and eternal destiny of all - what is the best-case scenerio?

A good birth with loving parents, a fulfilled life, a peaceful death. It doesn't get much better than that.

If you could define heaven, what would it be?

I've never been able to work it out. Either it's Paul's earth with evergrowing billions of dead standing on top of each other (their nourishment and sanitary requirements are rather obscure), or it's a disembodied spirit with no means of sensory input, or memory, or generating emotions, or its an over-the-rainbow autarchic "kingdom" of some kind, or it's the heavily male-oriented Muslim heaven somewhere. The main elements seem to be pleasure, eternity, no say in government, and minimal intellectual content (though perhaps the Jewish heaven has something of the kind?).

I'm content, when my time's up, just to get out of the way, the same as everyone else has done or will do.

 

[rational experiences]

Men humans toil and build on earth.

Then thesis blue light heavens with no clouds.

Clouds build up he says as the toil of the God spirit. Humans eventually seeing human ground life imaged mirrored in clouds. Animals humans strange objects.

Seen China's cities as a vision in the sky.

Knows it's phenomena.

But as humans choose the subject and topic egotistically they tell stories inferring human behaviour in the story.

So science as a theist said dont thesis by stories as you impose human egotism and it's not science.

Bible full of human told egotism hence had to be read objectively to confer what portions are really referenced science.

As the status earth products formulas is by data chemistry conversions of earths body.

So as you knew earth changed its body you talk non stop about what a natural planet owned.

Not a theist actually just a storyteller about planet earth.

The theist is Mr machine inventor who has to artificially give the machine a fake life. For it's function.

Hence using the word life out of context makes him a really evil human thinker today.

As machines don't live.

 

[YoursTrue]

This is off topic but since we were talking about suffering and if it is a choice, I wanted to say one last thing. I realize that some of my suffering is a choice because I am choosing to suffer for what I love and consider important. I do not blame anyone for my suffering. I certainly do not blame myself because it is a choice. I could be enjoying life more if I chose to because I have the means and I could make the time but other things are more important to me than enjoying life.

If I might, I believe we all are victims of suffering or hardship, depending on circumstances. Today I stopped by a little pond near a store and parked there for a moment or two, watching ducks and birds do their thing. I was enjoying it. I was listening to a pretty music cd while I was parked. I was so happy for a few minutes looking at the ducks and other birds. Now I might say that some relieve pain and suffering by hobbies, exercise and the like. I put up pretty pictures on the wall that I grab from calendars and it makes me feel good. Just to mention -- but no one is immune from pain and suffering.

 

[idea]

Humans to be the origin only human DNA once was the same human everywhere as the human.

Which cannot happen as earths origin mass over many years has changed.

From its origins.

As we all live inside of the heavens and our life is mutual water cooled supported oxygenated.

So no hierarchy would also impose no changes to the lower ground heavens surrounding us either.

So we could live mutually as consciousness seeing we all use our human head the same no matter what different DNA biology we own.

Which would be technologies removal.

Cannot actually envision greedy man's want to support such changes myself.

I personally believe in thermodynamics - in conservation of mass, conservation of energy, information, intelligence - everything is eternal without beginning and without end. Nothing magically pops into or out of existence. Outer forms change, but we are conscious self-aware freely acting eternal beings - all the same age, the same infinite time to grow and learn. No heirarchies - we are all eternal beings.

 

[idea]

That's nothing to do with " choosing" to believe.
In the event, I am not into self deception.

How do you handle what cannot be known?

 

[idea]

A good birth with loving parents, a fulfilled life, a peaceful death. It doesn't get much better than that.
I've never been able to work it out. Either it's Paul's earth with evergrowing billions of dead standing on top of each other (their nourishment and sanitary requirements are rather obscure), or it's a disembodied spirit with no means of sensory input, or memory, or generating emotions, or its an over-the-rainbow autarchic "kingdom" of some kind, or it's the heavily male-oriented Muslim heaven somewhere. The main elements seem to be pleasure, eternity, no say in government, and minimal intellectual content (though perhaps the Jewish heaven has something of the kind?).

I'm content, when my time's up, just to get out of the way, the same as everyone else has done or will do.

I agree, a few at least seem to find heaven in this life on Earth - simple, content, peaceful friendships, nature, good food, music, nothing grandiose needed - the grand can be found in the simple.

Paul, Christians, Muslims, so many choices and ideas - might as well create your own ideas. We choose what food we like, what music we enjoy, what people inspire us - For those who include God, God allows choice, so choose your heaven A loving God would give everyone their own choice, right? For those who see an eternal being within all - ability to choose, free will - I just thought it might be fun to read everyone's versions of their "happy place". No dogma, no figuring out someone else's dogma, just your own personal happy place

 

[YoursTrue]

How do you handle what cannot be known?

Before I studied the Bible I was not handling the unknown too well. But since I have read and peered into the scriptures with God's help, of course, to understand, that which was not known by me is better known or understood. It's a long story, but the history of Israel and their relationship with their God helps me truly to put things in place, if that makes any sense to you. (It does to me, though.)

 

[Trailblazer]

Now I might say that some relieve pain and suffering by hobbies, exercise and the like. I put up pretty pictures on the wall that I grab from calendars and it makes me feel good. Just to mention -- but no one is immune from pain and suffering.

No, I don't think anyone is immune from pain and suffering, but it comes to different people in different degrees.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, I don't think anyone is immune from pain and suffering, but it comes to different people in different degrees.

Agreed. It has taken me a long while to come out of depression, things happened that made me unhappy, my personality has changed to a degree, with God's help. I did things that I would not want to repeat, God has made me realize some of the bad things I did and I do not want to ever repeat them. Yet when I remember them I feel bad. Does that make sense to you? I look forward to the future to be entirely happy. But that will not be for a while, that is after the new heavens and new earth are firmly and positively established. Revelation 21:1-5.

 

[rational experiences]

I personally believe in thermodynamics - in conservation of mass, conservation of energy, information, intelligence - everything is eternal without beginning and without end. Nothing magically pops into or out of existence. Outer forms change, but we are conscious self-aware freely acting eternal beings - all the same age, the same infinite time to grow and learn. No heirarchies - we are all eternal beings.

I don't believe in just a handful man brother thinking.

As you take your imaginary themes and build manifest a machine that never existed.

You and your machine he says gives him his machine answers. So machines can take his place in bio life that lives by bio conception only in the life span woman ovary. Not his sperm.

Without his machine science he has no science.

As talking about natural life any human can and does no shifting of natural biology anywhere.

We survive. If you detail biology survival or why how .... it's only a choice. If you don't talk about it we still live it.

Bio micro organisms already living consume a deteriorating bio mass body when it dies.

Water gets released. No life no using energy to be biology. Biology exact uses biology.

Using energy to remain living is water and bio chemicals.

Bio chemicals disappear in total.

Bio chemicals existing before a human biological adult thesis a growing baby til ovary is present.

Which is human life itself.

You lie as a human theist.

You don't own any status that already was singularly existent first before you sought it.

No sex no life continuance is known.

Sex is life's creator God.

Man of science using science exact cloned.

Biology man woman bodies plus sex owned life.

Your position science said falsely you cloned life. Is an outright lie

You falsify use of human thought advice by human egotism.

Always had scientist.

 

[rational experiences]

The theme thesis by pretend first.

Says I'm looking at natural pretending natural terms about before.

As a human I can thesis pretend before no heavens no earth no human no theist.

Yet everything else would still exist.

Is about how theists coerce by using subjects by words human spoken.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Agreed. It has taken me a long while to come out of depression, things happened that made me unhappy, my personality has changed to a degree, with God's help. I did things that I would not want to repeat, God has made me realize some of the bad things I did and I do not want to ever repeat them. Yet when I remember them I feel bad. Does that make sense to you? I look forward to the future to be entirely happy. But that will not be for a while, that is after the new heavens and new earth are firmly and positively established. Revelation 21:1-5.

I don't know what 'bad things' you did that wounded yourself, but perhaps you could resolve them by putting in sincere and honest hard work to earn forgiveness from parties involved. That way, when the events are remembered in the future, the 'bad things' won't be the predominant memory, rather it will be the gratitude or relief you received as reward for good things you did as response

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't know what 'bad things' you did that wounded yourself, but perhaps you could resolve them by putting in sincere and honest hard work to earn forgiveness from parties involved. That way, when the events are remembered in the future, the 'bad things' won't be the predominant memory, rather it will be the gratitude or relief you received as reward for good things you did as response

I'm working on it. Thanks.

 

[idea]

Before I studied the Bible I was not handling the unknown too well. But since I have read and peered into the scriptures with God's help, of course, to understand, that which was not known by me is better known or understood. It's a long story, but the history of Israel and their relationship with their God helps me truly to put things in place, if that makes any sense to you. (It does to me, though.)

There are many inspirational stories of many different people. I find myself inspired by musicians, scientists, Ghandi, M.L.K, Shakespeare, artists and poets - those who are passionate in researching, practicing, inventing, creating - independent, curious, driven, hard-working. I see religious texts as pieces of incomplete partial histories mixed with political propaganda and exaggerated stories - a few fables to explore ideas. No borrowed light - I think fulfillment, joy, peace come from within - from following our own heavenly path, and trusting others to do the same. Many paths, one destination

 

[idea]

Agreed. It has taken me a long while to come out of depression, things happened that made me unhappy, my personality has changed to a degree, with God's help. I did things that I would not want to repeat, God has made me realize some of the bad things I did and I do not want to ever repeat them. Yet when I remember them I feel bad. Does that make sense to you? I look forward to the future to be entirely happy. But that will not be for a while, that is after the new heavens and new earth are firmly and positively established. Revelation 21:1-5.

I have had to escape pain. 3 of my family are convicted child molesters. One of them, in jail now, a Christian "high priest". God loves some, hates others? God hates women and children?... An end of anger for me was - it's just the laws of nature, it's just an "empty boat". The following is just one version of it, passing it along to anyone else who might appreciate it.

A monk decides to meditate alone, away from his monastery. He takes his boat out to the middle of the lake, moors it there, closes his eyes and begins his meditation.
After a few hours of undisturbed silence, he suddenly feels the bump of another boat colliding with his own. With his eyes still closed, he senses his anger rising, and by the time he opens his eyes, he is ready to scream at the boatman who dared disturb his meditation.
But when he opens his eyes, he sees it’s an empty boat that had probably got untethered and floated to the middle of the lake.
At that moment, the monk achieves self-realization, and understands that the anger is within him; it merely needs the bump of an external object to provoke it out of him.
From then on, whenever he comes across someone who irritates him or provokes him to anger, he reminds himself, “The other person is merely an empty boat. The anger is within me.”


Heaven is not taking things personally. The ability to change - change beliefs, change surroundings, lay down burdens, define yourself. Self-sufficient, self-reliant, not dependent on anyone else- not on any church, on any book - free from all of that - free to define your own life, your own heaven.

I'm not angry at empty boats - they were empty, it was not their fault. No faults. Just the laws of nature, ignorance, emptiness. They taught me not to rely on any arms of flesh, taught me self-reliance, good comes from all things.

 

[YoursTrue]

There are many inspirational stories of many different people. I find myself inspired by musicians, scientists, Ghandi, M.L.K, Shakespeare, artists and poets - those who are passionate in researching, practicing, inventing, creating - independent, curious, driven, hard-working. I see religious texts as pieces of incomplete partial histories mixed with political propaganda and exaggerated stories - a few fables to explore ideas. No borrowed light - I think fulfillment, joy, peace come from within - from following our own heavenly path, and trusting others to do the same. Many paths, one destination

I do not rely upon myself to figure things out. Obviously we are different. While I have respect for the Einsteins and Beethovens of this world, I am not interested in following in their footsteps. My main interest right now is telling others about the wonderful future we, as a human race, will enter soon enough. And living it.
Anything else, such as interest in animals, music, painting, scientific exploration, is put in the background now and I expect as time goes on that there will be joyful fulfillment of everything I want and need according to God's promises and permission forever.

 

[YoursTrue]

I have had to escape pain. 3 of my family are convicted child molesters. One of them, in jail now, a Christian "high priest". God loves some, hates others? God hates women and children?... An end of anger for me was - it's just the laws of nature, it's just an "empty boat". The following is just one version of it, passing it along to anyone else who might appreciate it.

A monk decides to meditate alone, away from his monastery. He takes his boat out to the middle of the lake, moors it there, closes his eyes and begins his meditation.
After a few hours of undisturbed silence, he suddenly feels the bump of another boat colliding with his own. With his eyes still closed, he senses his anger rising, and by the time he opens his eyes, he is ready to scream at the boatman who dared disturb his meditation.
But when he opens his eyes, he sees it’s an empty boat that had probably got untethered and floated to the middle of the lake.
At that moment, the monk achieves self-realization, and understands that the anger is within him; it merely needs the bump of an external object to provoke it out of him.
From then on, whenever he comes across someone who irritates him or provokes him to anger, he reminds himself, “The other person is merely an empty boat. The anger is within me.”

I understand to a degree what you are saying. I used to be in therapy for many years, seemingly with no hope of getting out of it. Medication and more medication to keep me going. Then I started studying the Bible and believing what it says, this is not to say that everything in the Bible is literal, but many things are, and it helped me, along with others of similar viewpoint. The only religion that grabbed me is that which is explained at jw.org. After a time I realized that it's an either/or situation and I chose to enclose myself in that which seemed best for me and with which I agreed. I look forward to the future.

 

[idea]

I understand to a degree what you are saying. I used to be in therapy for many years, seemingly with no hope of getting out of it. Medication and more medication to keep me going. Then I started studying the Bible and believing what it says, this is not to say that everything in the Bible is literal, but many things are, and it helped me, along with others of similar viewpoint. The only religion that grabbed me is that which is explained at jw.org. After a time I realized that it's an either/or situation and I chose to enclose myself in that which seemed best for me and with which I agreed. I look forward to the future.

I know religious communities help many people - a different story, a different path for all. My kids gave me something to live for, something to pull myself together for. We are each saved by something different, if not in this life, hopefully within the life to come .

 

[Trailblazer]

Agreed. It has taken me a long while to come out of depression, things happened that made me unhappy, my personality has changed to a degree, with God's help. I did things that I would not want to repeat, God has made me realize some of the bad things I did and I do not want to ever repeat them. Yet when I remember them I feel bad. Does that make sense to you? I look forward to the future to be entirely happy. But that will not be for a while, that is after the new heavens and new earth are firmly and positively established. Revelation 21:1-5.

Thanks for sharing. Yes, that makes sense to me. I have gone through something similar with depression and grief but with God's help I was able to pull through. I went through many things that I hope I will never have to go through again. I am sure I will have more trials but I cannot imagine it being worse than the last 22 years. I might be getting a break from the storm now, after all of that.

I have no idea what the future holds, I just live one day at a time. If my husband and cats are not ill I am happy enough. I do not expect much more. I live a very simple life.

 

[Mock Turtle]

For what we cannot know - what comes after death, existence before birth, the origin and eternal destiny of all - what is the best-case scenerio? If you could define heaven, what would it be?

For me - no heirarchies, no one better than anyone else, no sexism, no racism, all equally educated, equal and all-knowing, everyone fully present with everyone else.

No such scenarios make any sense to me, given that I don't hold humans as being in any sense special enough to be worthy of any of this (whatever 'this' might mean) - even the best of us (not me) - and such merely being what we might project or wish as to such things. And hence quite explicable, given that most will desire some particular thing from life, and perhaps from death or what might follow. Just not an area to wallow in, in my view, since it is just such - fanciful projecting.