Man is not an animal

[Wildswanderer]

And I agree that we have lost a lot. But the reason people no longer believe in a God is because we have learned a LOT since those early days of hunting and gathering. Our understanding (as a society, not as individuals) of the world around us is much, much deeper than what was available even a couple hundred years ago, let alone a few thousand.

It's just not. I've read the old theologians..we are shallow and selfish and most people are downright ignorant of things our ancestors knew by heart. We have mapped more of the earth and become more dependent on stuff. It's not a good trade-off.

 

[Polymath257]

It's just not. I've read the old theologians..we are shallow and selfish and most people are downright ignorant of things our ancestors knew by heart. We have mapped more of the earth and become more dependent on stuff. It's not a good trade-off.

I disagree. We have discarded old superstitions. We have forgotten old and no longer needed technologies and replaced them with newer ones more appropriate for a more complex society.

 

[Polymath257]

No, things that we think we know. Most science of the past is shown to be wrong within a couple of years. We only think we know everything.

Nobody thinks we know everything. But we do know far more than we did in the past.

Life as hunter gatherers was not nearly as idyllic as you seem to think.

 

[Polymath257]

Sorry, but no. Your dog can express affection but it's really loyalty because of what you do for her. And she's not from your family tree, that's just fuzzy feeling silliness. And the Wolves "love" their pack members until one of them has food the other wants. My dogs do the same thing. Animals are basically selfish creatures because that's what is required to survive. The only exception would be mothering instinct, but that's just to ensure the species continues.

Wolf packs in the wild are family units,unlike the mixed groups found among human pets. In such a context, altruism and sharing does promote survival of the family unit.

 

[Polymath257]

Only the existence of a deity has not been proven wrong and in fact, most people still believe in God.

Fewer all the time. That's what happens with education and the realization that religions have mostly been a tool of oppression and power.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Nobody thinks we know everything.

There are a handful of times I've heard physicists boast along the lines of there being very little or virtually nothing left to figure out, in reference to the standard model. I personally think speaking in absolutes is erroneous and should be avoided. Infinites exist in maths, but have yet to be observed in physics.

Nothing ever has been, and everything always was eternally impossible...

 

[SkepticThinker]

Let's see, primitive man navigates by the Stars, has the ability to craft weapons with sticks and stones, start a fire by rubbing sticks together, lives in a cave that's naturally insulated and warm in the winter, cool in summer, pays no bills, owes no taxes, has all the knowledge he needs to thrive in his mind. Kills and harvests natural organic food from nature, with sticks and stone tools he makes himself, and worships the God he knows to exist because he lives within the created world.

Yeah, and now we can start a fire by flicking a Bic lighter that we invented. And we can go on these things called computers that we also invented and talk to people all over the world.
We can see into space with a giant telescope that we invented and actually travel to space in rocket ships that we invented. We can heal ourselves with antibiotics and vaccines that we also invented so that we live past the age of 25 and most of our kids don't die before the age of five anymore. We know so much more than our ancient ancestors even had the chance to know, because they didn't have the tools available to them that we do today. Our ancient ancestors didn't know where lightning came from, and invented Gods as explanations for those things. But we know today where lightning comes from and how it operates just fine without the need for deities.

Modern Man keeps his brain in his pocket in a little plastic box, buys a $100,000 house that depreciates instantly, pays constantly for it's upkeep, can't even fix his own lunch without an expensive device, buys prepackaged food that's bad for his health, is constantly stressed, can't make it across town without a GPS, and is scared to death to be in the woods. Doesn't believe in God because a liberal professor at the college he attended mocked the idea of a deity.
You know why people don't believe in God? Because they are too scared to. They prefer everything to be prepackaged or on screens... The real world is just too much for them.

Houses don't tend to depreciate in value (especially these days), maybe you're thinking of cars? I wonder how come our ancient ancestors didn't have brick houses with indoor plumbing?

I don't believe in God because I haven't seen any good evidence that convinces me there is one in the first place. I didn't have to go to college to discover that. By the way, I used to believe in God when I was young. Then I realized I didn't have any good reasons to believe. Also, I read the Bible and realized how immoral that God is.

Do you seriously think that people don't believe in God because "they are too scared to?" You've spent all this time on these forums and you still think that, really?

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, things that we think we know. Most science of the past is shown to be wrong within a couple of years. We only think we know everything.

Nonsense.

Also, total avoidance of the point at hand.

 

[questfortruth]

There's animal, vegetable and mineral (plus virus and bacterias) - which are you?

Human.

 

[YoursTrue]

"Animal" refers to any life-form in the biological Kingdom Animalia. Brains, consciousness and spirituality do not define Animalia, much less speech or reasoning. It's a taxanomic category.
Sponges and jellyfish are animals, and they have no brains at all.

We are multicellular and eukaryotic, we develop from a blastula and lack cell walls; therefore, we are animals.

This thread has a massive problem with definition and strawmen. Some are using a precise, biological definition, others are using various colloquial, culturally based understandings of the term. We've been talking past each other for 145 posts.

Colloquial "definitions" are never precise, and they vary even among culturally homogenous individuals. They are unsuited to serious discussions. They do not lead to consensus.

I no longer subscribe to the definitions of evolutionists regarding the kingdom animalia.

 

[YoursTrue]

Sorry, but no. Your dog can express affection but it's really loyalty because of what you do for her. And she's not from your family tree, that's just fuzzy feeling silliness. And the Wolves "love" their pack members until one of them has food the other wants. My dogs do the same thing. Animals are basically selfish creatures because that's what is required to survive. The only exception would be mothering instinct, but that's just to ensure the species continues.

Fwankly speaking, my dear, I doubt if someone goes as far back as possible in their family tree, he will get a loyal doggie as a progenitor. So please take this as agreement to your comment there.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Human.

That wasn't one of the available options.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I disagree. We have discarded old superstitions. We have forgotten old and no longer needed technologies and replaced them with newer ones more appropriate for a more complex society.

If you think they're no longer needed you might want to take a look around at society. The people who have kept up on the old skills are looking more and more wise, as our society starts to crumble due to the insane cost of everything. Knowing how to raise a garden and shooting and butcher your own meat, has never been more relevant. Our dependence on technology for everything has made us weak.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Do you seriously think that people don't believe in God because "they are too scared to?" You've spent all this time on these forums and you still think that, really?

Actually these forums helped convince me of that.
People have been taught that they are the center of the universe, it's a way our society is set up now, from kindergarten through college. To believe in something bigger than yourself is a scary thing.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Yeah, and now we can start a fire by flicking a Bic lighter that we invented. And we can go on these things called computers that we also invented and talk to people all over the world.

And people today depend on their computers to tell them everything. That's where they get their information about what is happening in the world and if they want to know how something works they Google it... So nobody actually knows anything, except the people who have already had experience with real life skills.
When you are stranded when your electric car breaks down, and your Bic lighter runs out of fuel, you're going to wish you knew some alternative ways to start a fire, BTW.

 

[YoursTrue]

Humans have created a great system for testing ideas, it is called science, it makes humans special. Denying accepted and proven science is not a good idea and goes against the best interests of the human race.

I take vaccines -- to be a scientist one does not have to accept the theory of evolution.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Actually these forums helped convince me of that.
People have been taught that they are the center of the universe, it's a way our society is set up now, from kindergarten through college. To believe in something bigger than yourself is a scary thing.

Ah I see, so you don't believe people when they tell you why they don't believe in God(s), and instead adhere to your preconceived notions that you learned through the theology you follow.

It seems to me that it's the religious-minded who think they are the centre of the universe, and that the universe was created with human beings in mind. It would seem that you're just projecting your theology onto others.

I believe the universe is vastly bigger than I am. But you don't care, you'll go on believing that I'm scared to believe in God because that's what you've been told and darnit, you're not going to take in any new information that may conflict with what you already believe.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I believe the universe is vastly bigger than I am. But you don't care, you'll go on believing that I'm scared to believe in God because that's what you've been told and darnit, you're not going to take in any new information that may conflict with what you already believe.

It's not what I've been told... it's what I've observed.

 

[SkepticThinker]

If you think they're no longer needed you might want to take a look around at society. The people who have kept up on the old skills are looking more and more wise, as our society starts to crumble due to the insane cost of everything. Knowing how to raise a garden and shooting and butcher your own meat, has never been more relevant. Our dependence on technology for everything has made us weak.

You're still avoiding the point.

And gardening and butchering aren't old superstitions. In fact they are things that are still undertaken on much more massive scales than they were in the ancient world.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It's not what I've been told... it's what I've observed.

No it isn't. If you went with what you observed, then you'd go with what people tell you. But you don't do that.