Does Quran disagree with a portion of the Bible?

[firedragon]

I tend to agree with that.

Which Bible? 66, 73, 75 books? Which one?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Which Bible? 66, 73, 75 books? Which one?

Any one

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The Bahai idea of the Quran referring to the Bible is their attempt at attracting Christians. But this apologetic does not work. Because you should know, that the earliest Bible has the epistle of Barnabas and the Shepard of Hermas in it. Now you dont get it. So the Bahai scripture should quote those two extra books. Also, two letters of clement. Thats just in the New Testament.

The Qur'an never refers to the Bible.

Hmm, I would say the answer to question why Baha'u'llah insisted that the Bible is not corrupted is another topic. But briefly, as I see it, the reason is, there are many prophecies in the Torah and Gospels about End Time, return of Christ, Day of Judgment, etc, that matches with the Manifestation of the Bab and Baha'u'llah. But because the Muslims at the time of Baha'u'llah had believed the Torah and Gospels are illegitimate, they would not look at such evidences. So, Baha'u'llah in the Book of Iqan, refuted such ideas that the previous Holy Books are not available today or are corrupted.

 

[firedragon]

Thanks. That is what I call a straight answer.
Now this raises another question.
Please note that, I am not answering. I am just asking these questions to see how it make sense to you:

No problem.

Did God want Injil to be written as a Book so the People of Jesus may be guided by it, or God did not want it to be written?

We dont know what God wanted. Cant read Gods mind. But we know, that it is not said anywhere it is written, or recited.

I mean, there are about 600 years between Jesus and revelation of the Quran. How did those people before Quran know what is forbidden and what is commanded by God, if there was no Proper Book revealed to them by God?

because the Quran is Gods revelation. People dont need to know anything or inherit anything. God tells you. Unless of course you dont believe the Quran is Gods revelation.

How did the people of Jesus know what to do? Jesus was there to teach them. He was a messenger of God, and the Quran says that.

If we say, they did not have any way to know what is forbidden and what is commanded, then how were they guided? If God did not want to guide them, why He sent Jesus then?

Who said God did not want to guide them? Why that strawman?

God says in the Quran that every nation has received a messenger. Many came before Jesus. Why do you focus on Jesus? Why not Abraham? He was given scripture too.

I was asking you what those verses are talking about. So, the question is, when it says, they distorted the Book, or they change the words from their places, what does it mean? What Book they distorted and how did they change the words from their places?
Again I am not answering. I want to understand how you understand these verses, if you want please explain.

You quoted chapter 5. The problem is your understanding of the Quran is based on simple English. Book, does not mean a book. At least to the Quran. If that is the case, where is the book of Jacob? How about Abraham, Ishmael etc etc? Read the whole Qur'an. The whole of it.

Only the Quran is named as it is because it is a reading. The other books are not. So when the Quran says "anzala", or "Kithab", it is not necessarily a written book.

 

[firedragon]

Any one

Ah. Really. So could you please say if the Shepard of Hermas is part of the Bible?

I said this but you had ignored it.

Thanks.

 

[firedragon]

Hmm, I would say the answer to question why Baha'u'llah insisted that the Bible is not corrupted is another topic. But briefly, as I see it, the reason is, there are many prophecies in the Torah and Gospels about End Time, return of Christ, Day of Judgment, etc, that matches with the Manifestation of the Bab and Baha'u'llah. But because the Muslims at the time of Baha'u'llah had believed the Torah and Gospels are illegitimate, they would not look at such evidences. So, Baha'u'llah in the Book of Iqan, refuted such ideas that the previous Holy Books are not available today or are corrupted.

All of those prophecies are bizarrely manufactured by Abdul Baha. I mean really strangely. One woe is a prophet, another woe is anothe. All really strange and bizarre. One part of the Bible is direct, and the rest that doesn't agree with the Bahai theology are "superficial or allegorical". A lot of hard work has been put.

Bahaullah was absolutely mislead. He does not know the Bible in depth. He has read the KJV of his time and didnt know biblical scholarship. HE didnt even know the earliest Bibles. If he was Gods manifestation, he should have. No problem. If you wish to get into this, no worries.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Hmm, I would say the answer to question why Baha'u'llah insisted that the Bible is not corrupted is another topic. But briefly, as I see it, the reason is, there are many prophecies in the Torah and Gospels about End Time, return of Christ, Day of Judgment, etc, that matches with the Manifestation of the Bab and Baha'u'llah. But because the Muslims at the time of Baha'u'llah had believed the Torah and Gospels are illegitimate, they would not look at such evidences. So, Baha'u'llah in the Book of Iqan, refuted such ideas that the previous Holy Books are not available today or are corrupted.

I would say that people who have to explain how they are "a promised one" are very unlikely to be what they claim.

We have been given knowledge of end-times etc. for this very reason.
i.e. so we beware of false claims

It will be very obvious to all when the Messiah returns.
He will have great support from amongst the believers.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I would say that people who have to explain how they are "a promised one" are very unlikely to be what they claim.

We have been given knowledge of end-times etc. for this very reason.
i.e. so we beware of false claims

It will be very obvious to all when the Messiah returns.
He will have great support from amongst the believers.

So, when Moses, Jesus or Muhammad came, it was very obvious that they were the Promised One? They didn't have to explain why they were the Messengers of God?
I would say Surrah of Hud, shows it wasn't obvious to people at all.
Was it very obvious to the Jews that Jesus was their Promised Messiah?

 

[Link]

I don't see the Hadith would say they actually changed the Text. They misinterpreted them. Imam Ali and Muhammad are still in the Bible.

But the verse is about them changing God's words about the gate and so this the details in the hadith. It's not interpretation, it's them changing his words here.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

But the verse is about them changing God's words about the gate and so this the details in the hadith. It's not interpretation, it's them changing his words here.

Please quote the verse from the Quran. I am not aware of this. Thanks

 

[muhammad_isa]

Was it very obvious to the Jews that Jesus was their Promised Messiah?

Yes, but the Sanhedrin didn't accept his authority.
Read the Bible .. you'll see.

 

[KWED]

There is not a single verse in the Qur'an where it mentions the Bible. You will not address this as well.

Of course, the words "The Bible" don't occur, because it is simply an anglicised version of the Koine Greek for "scroll" or "book", but references are made to the scriptures that constitute the Bible. Anyone who has read the Quran would know that.
Of course, you won't address this.

 

[KWED]

The Bahai idea of the Quran referring to the Bible is their attempt at attracting Christians.

And you think the authors of the Quran weren't tying to attract Christians and Jews?
And the Islamic ideas of ritual ablutions before five daily prayers, and pilgrimage to Mecca to circumambulate the Kaaba were an attempt to attract Zoroastrians and Arab pagans.
Did you have a point?

 

[Link]

I don't see the Hadith would say they actually changed the Text. They misinterpreted them. Imam Ali and Muhammad are still in the Bible.

The pro one who seems to always know that god doesn’t mean what he says.

Please quote the verse from the Quran. I am not aware of this. Thanks

there is no point you going to say change Gods words said to them means interpreting it wrong. You never accept anything you always resort to sophistry.

 

[KWED]

I would say that people who have to explain how they are "a promised one" are very unlikely to be what they claim.

Yikes!
You do realise that Muhammad spent many years trying to explain that he was god's final messenger before more than a handful of people listened to him?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Yes, but the Sanhedrin didn't accept his authority.
Read the Bible .. you'll see.

When we read the Bible or Quran, we see, they kept asking the Messengers for Miracles, because it wasn't obvious to them they were truly Messengers. Jesus told them only an adulterers generation asks for Miracles and no Miracles will be given. Likewise, in Surrah Hud, every prophet that came, people called them Liars, and tried to kill them or ridicule them. Likewise they asked Muhammad many times to show Miracles, as described in the Quran and Muhammad always rejected their request and told them that Quran itself is the Miracle and Proof. They accuse Muhammad that this Book is just fabricated from previous Books. Then Muhammad in the Quran replied, if so, bring 10 surrah like it.
I mean, from these stories I see, it was never obvious to people who a true Messenger is. They were always arguing with the Messengers and accused them of being Liars.
So, why would the Promised ones of Islam or Bible be any different?

 

[muhammad_isa]

You do realise that Muhammad spent many years trying to explain that he was God's final messenger before more than a handful of people listened to him?

What do you think?

I was referring to the issue of the case of Shia Muslims claiming to be the 12th. Imam or Mahdi.
Why don't the majority of Muslims believe it, do you think?
Is it something to do with the person's character, or does it violate the very principle behind what the Mahdi actually is?

Did Jesus claim to "change the law" ? No, He didn't say that.
He followed Jewish law, and did not tell people to sin.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The pro one who seems to always know that god doesn’t mean what he says.

The words of Prophets as revealed in Holy Books or Hadithes are difficult to understand.
This is because God wants people to think and with a pure heart understand the Revelations.

This is an example of what they have said:

Baha'u'llah reminded of some well-known Traditions from Imams, such as these:

... they bear witness to this well-known tradition: “Verily Our Word is abstruse, bewilderingly abstruse.” In another instance, it is said: “Our Cause is sorely trying, highly perplexing; none can bear it except a favorite of heaven, or an inspired Prophet, or he whose faith God hath tested.”


Thus it is recorded: “Every knowledge hath seventy meanings, of which one only is known amongst the people. And when the Qá’im shall arise, He shall reveal unto men all that which remaineth.” He also saith: “We speak one word, and by it we
intend one and seventy meanings; each one of these meanings we can explain.”

the bolded traditions are Hadithes, mostly from Imam Sadiq.

there is no point you going to say change Gods words said to them means interpreting it wrong. You never accept anything you always resort to sophistry.

Oh common, we are only having some conversations. No worries.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

What do you think?

I was referring to the issue of the case of Shia Muslims claiming to be the 12th. Imam or Mahdi.
Why don't the majority of Muslims believe it, do you think?
Is it something to do with the person's character, or does it violate the very principle behind what the Mahdi actually is?

Did Jesus claim to "change the law" ? No, He didn't say that.
He followed Jewish law, and did not tell people to sin.

This is how Baha'u'llah's answers your question:

"Reflect, what could have been the motive for such deeds? What could have prompted such behavior towards the Revealers of the beauty of the All-Glorious? Whatever in days gone by hath been the cause of the denial and opposition of those people hath now led to the perversity of the people of this age. "
Book of Iqan



Basically Bahaullah says, reflect and recognize what was the cause of rejection and denial of past Messengers. Whatever was the cause of rejection in the past, is the cause of rejection in this Age also.

 

[Link]

Did baha’allah say Mohammad didn’t do miracles ?