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Does Quran disagree with a portion of the Bible?

firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
stanberger said:
the latter was debunked by biblical scholar bart erman in 'misquoting Jesus' was not in original gospel manuscript so can't support that fiction
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Great. And you should know it was not debunked by Bart Ehrman, it was "exposed" as forgery long long ago by almost all Christian scholars. This was in the early 20th century after the discovery of Sinaiticus. Then came Vaticanus and alexandrinus. Bart Ehrman is a New Testament scholar, and he was only repeating the unanimous position of scholars. Ehrman didnt invent this. Its normal, average scholarship worldwide.

Okay. So that was ruled out.

How about the other verse? The pig verse? Do you accept that?

And since your elimination criteria was the verse teaching the trinity, which verse in the bible teaches the trinity?
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
stanberger said:
we muslims only reject bible verses where trinity is taught instead of monotheism
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You said "we Muslims". Which means it should be mainstream Islamic Scholarship.

Can you tell me which school of thought says "only reject bible verses where trinity is taught instead of monotheism"?

Thanks.
 
S

stanberger

Active Member
firedragon said:
Great. And you should know it was not debunked by Bart Ehrman, it was "exposed" as forgery long long ago by almost all Christian scholars. This was in the early 20th century after the discovery of Sinaiticus. Then came Vaticanus and alexandrinus. Bart Ehrman is a New Testament scholar, and he was only repeating the unanimous position of scholars. Ehrman didnt invent this. Its normal, average scholarship worldwide.

Okay. So that was ruled out.

How about the other verse? The pig verse? Do you accept that?

And since your elimination criteria was the verse teaching the trinity, which verse in the bible teaches the trinity?
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gospel ' in the heavens are 3 the father son and Holy Ghost '
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
stanberger said:
google it mate I can't hold your hand
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Nah. See, no googling will in your life give a verse that does not exist.

Your verse you are speaking of does not exist in the whole bible. That is why you can never answer that question. Never in your entire life. Show the world one verse that says "Gospel is Father, Son and the Holy Spirit in heaven" as you claimed. You can google all you want mate.

If you are referring to 1st John 5:7, you should know that just like the Pericope Adultarae, or the woman of adultery in the NT, 1st John 5:7 is also a very very well known interpolation. Its more potently an interpolation than pericope adultarae. This is called Comma Johanneum.

Anyway, since you said that you muslims only reject the verses in the Bible that teaches, So can you provide a school of thought in Islamic history who said that as Bible criterion?

Edit: So anyway, according to your criteria you had given saying "we Muslims" accept all verses in the Bible except for the trinity verses, and you had spoken of "One Verse" which is a well known forgery, means you and all the muslims you called "we Muslims" must accept the entire bible.

Thats your thesis.

It is not an Islamic thesis. Never in the history of Islam has there been an idea like that. Its absolutely bogus.

Thanks.
 
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S

stanberger

Active Member
firedragon said:
Nah. See, no googling will in your life give a verse that does not exist.

Your verse you are speaking of does not exist in the whole bible. That is why you can never answer that question. Never in your entire life. Show the world one verse that says "Gospel is Father, Son and the Holy Spirit in heaven" as you claimed. You can google all you want mate.

If you are referring to 1st John 5:7, you should know that just like the Pericope Adultarae, or the woman of adultery in the NT, 1st John 5:7 is also a very very well known interpolation. Its more potently an interpolation than pericope adultarae. This is called Comma Johanneum.

Anyway, since you said that you muslims only reject the verses in the Bible that teaches, So can you provide a school of thought in Islamic history who said that as Bible criterion?

Edit: So anyway, according to your criteria you had given saying "we Muslims" accept all verses in the Bible except for the trinity verses, and you had spoken of "One Verse" which is a well known forgery, means you and all the muslims you called "we Muslims" must accept the entire bible.

Thats your thesis.

It is not an Islamic thesis. Never in the history of Islam has there been an idea like that. Its absolutely bogus.

Thanks.
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start here mate Matthew 28 19 ' go forth and baptize in the name of the father. son. Holy Ghost ' apology accepted in advance
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
stanberger said:
start here mate Matthew 28 19 ' go forth and baptize in the name of the father. son. Holy Ghost ' apology accepted in advance
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Baptise does not mean "they are 3 but one Ousia". Yes I apologise for expecting character in you.

Matthew also says Jesus will baptise with the Holy Spirit and fire. Is that binatarianism? Also do you know that the verse you quoted is also a famously suggested interpolation? And that's based on patristic evidence.

Anyway, so you think you found a verse. Do you accept every other verse in the entire Bible like you claimed? And who are these "we muslims"? In what world? Not on earth for sure.

Show me scholars who agree with your "we muslims accept the whole bible other than trinity verses". Which Islamic scholar says that? And which group of people are you referring to as "we muslims"?

As a Muslim, why dont you just conclude you made a huge error. What you say is not Islamic.
 
S

stanberger

Active Member
firedragon said:
Baptise does not mean "they are 3 but one Ousia". Yes I apologise for expecting character in you.

Matthew also says Jesus will baptise with the Holy Spirit and fire. Is that binatarianism? Also do you know that the verse you quoted is also a famously suggested interpolation? And that's based on patristic evidence.

Anyway, so you think you found a verse. Do you accept every other verse in the entire Bible like you claimed? And who are these "we muslims"? In what world? Not on earth for sure.

Show me scholars who agree with your "we muslims accept the whole bible other than trinity verses". Which Islamic scholar says that? And which group of people are you referring to as "we muslims"?

As a Muslim, why dont you just conclude you made a huge error. What you say is not Islamic.
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quran ' the
firedragon said:
Baptise does not mean "they are 3 but one Ousia". Yes I apologise for expecting character in you.

Matthew also says Jesus will baptise with the Holy Spirit and fire. Is that binatarianism? Also do you know that the verse you quoted is also a famously suggested interpolation? And that's based on patristic evidence.

Anyway, so you think you found a verse. Do you accept every other verse in the entire Bible like you claimed? And who are these "we muslims"? In what world? Not on earth for sure.

Show me scholars who agree with your "we muslims accept the whole bible other than trinity verses". Which Islamic scholar says that? And which group of people are you referring to as "we muslims"?

As a Muslim, why dont you just conclude you made a huge error. What you say is not Islamic.
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quran is the criterion. anything in the previous scriptures that agree with the lord's final revelation we are to accept ....monotheism. prophets Halal/kosher. judgement day. etc
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
stanberger said:
quran is the criterion
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Excellent. Qur'an is the Furqan, the criterion. Qur'an is the Muhaymeenun.

No Islamic school of thought has ever in history made the theory that "we muslims accept the Bible except the ones that teach the trinity". Never.

stanberger said:
anything in the previous scriptures that agree with the lord's final revelation we are to accept
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Thats a whole paradigm shift. Complete, about turn.

Anyway, let me tell you what the Qur'an says.

Yakthuboona kithaaba bi aydheehim. That means they write their books by their own hands.

Then it says yakooloona haadhaa min indhillah. That means they claim it is from God.

This is what the Qur'an says. If you believe in Allah, and you believe the Qur'an is Gods word, Allah's kalaam, then you should know the Qur'an says "they write their books by their own hands and claim it is from God".

It does not say "anything that does not teach the trinity we accept".

Peace.
 
S

stanberger

Active Member
firedragon said:
Excellent. Qur'an is the Furqan, the criterion. Qur'an is the Muhaymeenun.

No Islamic school of thought has ever in history made the theory that "we muslims accept the Bible except the ones that teach the trinity". Never.



Thats a whole paradigm shift. Complete, about turn.

Anyway, let me tell you what the Qur'an says.

Yakthuboona kithaaba bi aydheehim. That means they write their books by their own hands.

Then it says yakooloona haadhaa min indhillah. That means they claim it is from God.

This is what the Qur'an says. If you believe in Allah, and you believe the Qur'an is Gods word, Allah's kalaam, then you should know the Qur'an says "they write their books by their own hands and claim it is from God".

It does not say "anything that does not teach the trinity we accept".

Peace.
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anything written by man we do not accept as from god term bible never mentioned in quran but torah of moses and gospel of Jesus. psalms of David we can accept the non corrupted verses
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
stanberger said:
anything written by man we do not accept as from god term bible never mentioned in quran but torah of moses and gospel of Jesus. psalms of David we can accept the non corrupted verses
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Right. So now you have changed your position from the whole Bible, and any verse without the trinity you said "we muslims accept".

Because its a false assertion you cannot provide any Islamic sources to support that statement. Thats fine. You have changed your position.

Now, the Qur'an speaks of Zaboor. Who said it is the psalms of David in the Tanakh? Is that established? Really?

Bro, please try and do some studies in this matter. This is not Islamic Scholarship you are speaking about.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
stevecanuck said:
I'm referring to his claim about a (non-existent) verse in the Qur'an. He's made the claim several times, but he never provides a verse number. In other words, I'm using your post to gig him, not you.
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He was referring to a verse in the Bible, not the Quran Steve.
 
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