Challenge the statement that;

[icehorse]

God gave free will to ALL the people to find the purpose of life, and ALL people (Including me) are ALWAYS sincerely doing this task given by God in their own preferred ways.

Welcome

I have several issues with your argument:

- The concept of "free will" is complex and perhaps not even meaningful from a scientific perspective.

- As an atheist, I don't believe in any version of "god" that I've heard, so it's extremely unlikely that I'd believe your definition.

==

That said, I would agree that most people do put time and energy into pursuing the "purpose of life".

 

[viole]

But gene survival is not a purpose unless you believe that. Objectively there is no purpose in the world anywhere as far as I can tell.

My point.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Nakosis]

God gave free will to ALL the people to find the purpose of life, and ALL people (Including me) are ALWAYS sincerely doing this task given by God in their own preferred ways.


Welcome

One would first need to verify the existence of free will. Plenty of smart people say there is no reason/need to acceptance of free will so you'd have to get past this first hurdle before being able to make an unchallenged statement.

 

[firedragon]

No, but sometimes some people can't understand when they are subjective. And that is not limited to religious people and even I do it from time to time. I just try to learn from it, if it is pointed out to me.

Yes. Every single person on earth has subjective meaning or truths. Absolutely agreed.

 

[Lain]

God gave free will to ALL the people to find the purpose of life, and ALL people (Including me) are ALWAYS sincerely doing this task given by God in their own preferred ways.


Welcome

(All below is my opinion, and this.)

Whether or not I would challenge this depends on the meaning of "doing this task given by God in their own preferred ways" and "sincerely."

For if it means that they will fulfill the place God set for them in Providence (which in my view is not always good in the sense that sometimes they will be "vessels of wrath" to show God's justice, good for them that is) in their own will (which means sincerely) then I'd agree, for I believe God is in control.

If it means (speaking of sincerely) that they always believe they are doing right, I do not think this is the case for experience itself with no further proof shows that people can do something they do not believe is right, so in that sense I do not think they are sincere.

But for free will and such I'd agree, because the Scriptures say:

"God made man from the beginning, and left him in the hand of his own counsel. He added his commandments and precepts. If thou wilt keep the commandments and perform acceptable fidelity for ever, they shall preserve thee. He hath set water and fire before thee: stretch forth thy hand to which thou wilt. Before man is life and death, good and evil, that which he shall choose shall be given him: For the wisdom of God is great, and he is strong in power, seeing all men without ceasing."

(All above is my opinion, and this.)

 

[firedragon]

- The concept of "free will" is complex and perhaps not even meaningful from a scientific perspective.

Maybe you should read up on science in the field a bit. It might be interesting.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Maybe you should read up on science in the field a bit. It might be interesting.

Can you give some links, names, more specific clues and so on?

 

[firedragon]

Can you give some links, names, more specific clues and so on?

Benjamin Libet, Walter Sinott Armstrong, Lynn Nadel.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Benjamin Libet, Walter Sinott Armstrong, Lynn Nadel.

Only Libet seems relevant and it seems that as always we end in assumptions one way or the other. Now nobody has so far as I can tell explained how free will functions in causal terms, so I remain doubtful that we have it.

 

[firedragon]

Only Libet seems relevant and it seems that as always we end in assumptions one way or the other. Now nobody has so far as I can tell explained how free will functions in causal terms, so I remain doubtful that we have it.

1. What do you mean "assumptions"?
2. What do you mean "causal terms"?
3. What did you expect from your question you asked me about names, links etc? What was your expectation?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

1. What do you mean "assumptions"?
2. What do you mean "causal terms"?
3. What did you expect from your question you asked me about names, links etc? What was your expectation?

I did a quick search and only Libbet seemed relevant. The one in the middle of you list is a philosopher and the last one didn't seem relevant.

Okay, we can't see free will. So any claim made in the name of science rests on interpretations, which rests on assumptions.

As for causal, that is the typical one. How can a physical world cause free will?

 

[firedragon]

I did a quick search and only Libbet seemed relevant. The one in the middle of you list is a philosopher and the last one didn't seem relevant.

Dont do quick searches.

Okay, we can't see free will. So any claim made in the name of science rests on interpretations, which rests on assumptions.

What do you mean by assumptions? In a scientific sense? Then you have got it absolutely wrong. And what do you really expect from me? Since you asked for some scientific books I have given you three names. The latter two wrote works on Libets work. Thats why I gave you those names. Its not that I agree with them all or worship them but to show the person who said that free will is not scientific something or there other was not very correct. Scientific experiments were done.

So what are you really expecting?

As for causal, that is the typical one. How can a physical world cause free will?

Read Benjamin Libet, Armstrong, Lynn Adel. Then you will know "how a physical world can cause free will". There is a lot of research in this area. Was, is, and will.

Cheers.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Dont do quick searches.



What do you mean by assumptions? In a scientific sense? Then you have got it absolutely wrong. And what do you really expect from me? Since you asked for some scientific books I have given you three names. The latter two wrote works on Libets work. Thats why I gave you those names. Its not that I agree with them all or worship them but to show the person who said that free will is not scientific something or there other was not very correct. Scientific experiments were done.

So what are you really expecting?



Read Benjamin Libet, Armstrong, Lynn Adel. Then you will know "how a physical world can cause free will". There is a lot of research in this area. Was, is, and will.

Cheers.

Well, I don't have to read those books. It is simple. Explain to me what free will is in empirical observational terms or reference an instrument that can measure it.

 

[firedragon]

Well, I don't have to read those books. It is simple. Explain to me what free will is in empirical observational terms or reference an instrument that can measure it.

Why do you expect me to do that? Did I make any claims mate?

You are barking up the wrong tree in this thread. I have already explained, so let me cut and paste.

"And what do you really expect from me? Since you asked for some scientific books I have given you three names. The latter two wrote works on Libets work. Thats why I gave you those names. Its not that I agree with them all or worship them but to show the person who said that free will is not scientific something or there other was not very correct. Scientific experiments were done."

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Why do you expect me to do that? Did I make any claims mate?

You are barking up the wrong tree in this thread. I have already explained, so let me cut and paste.

"And what do you really expect from me? Since you asked for some scientific books I have given you three names. The latter two wrote works on Libets work. Thats why I gave you those names. Its not that I agree with them all or worship them but to show the person who said that free will is not scientific something or there other was not very correct. Scientific experiments were done."

Sorry. I got carried away.

 

[firedragon]

Sorry. I got carried away.

I knew Mikel. No problem.

Im looking for a good movie. Every thing is boring.

 

[icehorse]

Why do you expect me to do that? Did I make any claims mate?

You are barking up the wrong tree in this thread. I have already explained, so let me cut and paste.

"And what do you really expect from me? Since you asked for some scientific books I have given you three names. The latter two wrote works on Libets work. Thats why I gave you those names. Its not that I agree with them all or worship them but to show the person who said that free will is not scientific something or there other was not very correct. Scientific experiments were done."

So you're telling everyone else to read up on a topic you claim no expertise in?

 

[firedragon]

So you're telling everyone else to read up on a topic you claim no expertise in?

No. You!

 

[viole]

Okay, its NOT my God, its your preferred God, fine ? happy ?

My preferred God does not exist. Now what?

Ciao

- viole

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

My preferred God does not exist. Now what?

Ciao

- viole

Well, I don't believe in do exist or does not exist, so now what?