Existence

[Ludi]

You don't have to post it again, because you can edit your own post.

There are 5 buttons below your contents of your post. One of these buttons is the Edit button (next to Delete button and Report button).

You can make changes to your own post, as long as you modify within 24 hours after you post it.

Thank you for taking the time to give me a head's up. There is no greater treat in life then watching kindness in motion,

 

[Ludi]

How did you determine that, other than "Genesis says so"?

Hi, to tell you the truth I went through a series of massive events around 20 years ago, including what I can only describe as an incomparable self awakening. I actually had my perception shift from self, back to the purely conscious state I was born in. And what I described about Genesis was neither a guess, are a concept, it was a something I experienced for myself. And you cannot even begin to imagine what a baby actually see's, the absolutely insane power and beauty of creation itself. So going back to where I left off, once the man had gone into words, the 'self' actually replaces 'life' in between the two Living God's. That is why the tree of knowledge is described as being in the middle of the garden of God, just like the tree of life. And once in 'self' no matter where the man goes he will never 'see' are experience the garden of God again. This is why after banishing the man God settles him away from His garden, as because once he had disobeyed God, He will not allow the man to go 'back' to the garden. And since this entire world IS the garden of God, it is the reason God stations the cherubim, with the fiery revolving sword, guarding the way to the tree of life. With the cherubim representing the purely conscious Energy, that was still perfectly Alive, and still coming from Jesus, and still inside the man. It was also the only possible way back to the tree of Life. As the man would have to return to the 'state' he was created IN, to again 'eat' from the tree of life, just like every baby 'eats' from the tree of life, in the 'middle' of the garden of God.. Now God's warning to man that if he ate from this tree, are even touched it, he was surely doomed to die. And this was because God knew that once 'self' was created it would attach 'itself' to the flesh, are the clay of the earth, and that was doomed to die. Now 'self' created the concept of death, but this has nothing to do with God's truth, as the first death cannot harm anyone, it never could. And if you read this part in Genesis, you will also notice God at one point is talking to someone, and that is His Son Jesus, who gave everyone Life, including Adam and Eve. Now all of this is related to why, man has to this day been unable to find the origin of consciousness itself, we only know that when it is present you are alive, and when it leaves the body dies. This is why Jesus, who was again the source of Life inside everyone, said, what is born of flesh is flesh, and what is born of spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I told you, 'You must be born from above.' The wind blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit." It is also why Jesus said, 'It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail." Anyways it is again way past my bedtime, and if you want, I can continue this again tomorrow, and if you have any questions please just ask and I will try to answer them if I can. Hope you have a good night.

 

[Ludi]

In life, I think that's just about impossible. But it's good you were being careful.

In life, I think that's just about impossible. But it's good you were being careful.

In life that is very hard, especially when talking about hard things. But the hardness has had to much power for way to long, and the only way to address it, is by talking about hard things.

 

[Ludi]

Anyone as a human by self determined status...I am a Human born a baby knows I am never my two parents. Humans been living and are a long time deceased.

Life human living is never very old. To be aged or counted you live. Pretty basic advice.

If a human adult was instant as the adult then the bible says was not evolved by any terms.

Instantly an adult not grown. Both the same.

Yet the man human who poses status in human life as hierarchy says to everyone my life form was first.

Spiritually you would then quote he hence saw the human female spiritually manifest. To claim in human life I am your spirit teacher.

If your claim is God in natural in space history and so is its heavens. To be present. Then if gods heavens changed as the teaching why father and mother came out of the eternal spirit then human spirit teachings would exist.

As first natural human is spiritual aware and the highest self. Who proves they knew information in creation by status human expressed science.

An intelligent human knows science cannot be stated unless a living self present human stated the advice.

So we peruse science. Humans never owned addition nor did it own minus as an applied machine condition. All states highest in creation existed.

Two applications of a falsehood. Pretty basic science.

If a human teaches men sought advice of good and evil when all they lived supported by was good. Pretty basic science advice.

If humans quote a sacrificed human is acceptable then it is only your own self present psyche who thinks so.

I see it as victimisation and coercive human abuse. Otherwise I would not argue if I thought it acceptable.

So I would challenge the believers that some other human should be harmed claiming when I am not. I lived sick and in pain on and off through my life. Saw lots of human the same.

So if you the non suffering think I suffer for your benefit then in truth what is wrong with your psyche?

I see how and why you answer it must be my karma. You deserve it.

So then I ask was it Jesus karma too,? No they say he never deserved it he was so spiritual and loving.

I lived spiritual and loving too. I was born a baby.

The answer of course you have to be loving or you will be punished.

I only live my one sexually conceived life. Two humans chose sex. That is right they said sex was a sin.

Poor babies and little children who cannot argue for their behalf. I will instead I said sperm ovary not actually humans until conceived so how is it karmic as "the form" human?

Says a human female and the human babies mother.

So surely you understand why free thinkers argue against the scientific men human creators who taught all concepts.

I'm still trying to digest what you said here, powerful, thank you

 

[blü 2]

Yah, it's interesting, because let's face it, the first followers of Jesus were Jews. Then the word about Jesus being resurrected was brought to the non-Jews. (also called the nations...)

I'd put it slightly differently .

The first followers of Jesus appear to have been a small number of Jews. It's not clear what the earliest Christians believed ─ the earliest we encounter in history are Paul's gnostic-influenced accounts.

But Christianity wasn't successful amongst the Jewish people. Its adherents, thanks to Paul, were overwhelmingly pagan.

The resurrection is mentioned in Paul, implied in the original version of Mark, which ends at the empty tomb, and express in Matthew, Luke and John. There are stories of resurrection in a body in the Tanakh eg 1 Kings 17:17+, 2 Kings 4:32+, 2 Kings 4:32+. In the NT, Jesus raises the Nain woman's son (Luke 7:12+) and Lazarus (John 11.41+), Peter raised Tabitha / Dorcas (Acts 9:36-40), and Matthew describes the faithful dead at large in the streets of Jerusalem ((Matthew 27:52-53). It's by no means clear how these stories relate to Paul's 'incorruptible putting on incorruption'. since implicitly all those risen died again in due course. The many many Greek stories can also be ambiguous as to the state of the one returned from the dead ie the extent to which it was spiritual, like the souls in the Underworld, or corporeal, or something intermediate.

 

[Ludi]

Life human living is never very old. To be aged or counted you live. Pretty basic advice.

If a human adult was instant as the adult then the bible says was not evolved by any terms.

Instantly an adult not grown. Both the same.

Yet the man human who poses status in human life as hierarchy says to everyone my life form was first.

Spiritually you would then quote he hence saw the human female spiritually manifest. To claim in human life I am your spirit teacher.

If your claim is God in natural in space history and so is its heavens. To be present. Then if gods heavens changed as the teaching why father and mother came out of the eternal spirit then human spirit teachings would exist.

As first natural human is spiritual aware and the highest self. Who proves they knew information in creation by status human expressed science.

An intelligent human knows science cannot be stated unless a living self present human stated the advice.

So we peruse science. Humans never owned addition nor did it own minus as an applied machine condition. All states highest in creation existed.

Two applications of a falsehood. Pretty basic science.

If a human teaches men sought advice of good and evil when all they lived supported by was good. Pretty basic science advice.

If humans quote a sacrificed human is acceptable then it is only your own self present psyche who thinks so.

I see it as victimisation and coercive human abuse. Otherwise I would not argue if I thought it acceptable.

So I would challenge the believers that some other human should be harmed claiming when I am not. I lived sick and in pain on and off through my life. Saw lots of human the same.

So if you the non suffering think I suffer for your benefit then in truth what is wrong with your psyche?

I see how and why you answer it must be my karma. You deserve it.

So then I ask was it Jesus karma too,? No they say he never deserved it he was so spiritual and loving.

I lived spiritual and loving too. I was born a baby.

The answer of course you have to be loving or you will be punished.

I only live my one sexually conceived life. Two humans chose sex. That is right they said sex was a sin.

Poor babies and little children who cannot argue for their behalf. I will instead I said sperm ovary not actually humans until conceived so how is it karmic as "the form" human?

Says a human female and the human babies mother.

So surely you understand why free thinkers argue against the scientific men human creators who taught all concepts.

.




Hi thank you for this polite and well very thought out response..
A[/QUOTE]
hi I am sorry but I think I accidently sent you the wrong response stll getting used to message board.

 

[YoursTrue]

I'd put it slightly differently .

The first followers of Jesus appear to have been a small number of Jews. It's not clear what the earliest Christians believed ─ the earliest we encounter in history are Paul's gnostic-influenced accounts.

But Christianity wasn't successful amongst the Jewish people. Its adherents, thanks to Paul, were overwhelmingly pagan.

The resurrection is mentioned in Paul, implied in the original version of Mark, which ends at the empty tomb, and express in Matthew, Luke and John. There are stories of resurrection in a body in the Tanakh eg 1 Kings 17:17+, 2 Kings 4:32+, 2 Kings 4:32+. In the NT, Jesus raises the Nain woman's son (Luke 7:12+) and Lazarus (John 11.41+), Peter raised Tabitha / Dorcas (Acts 9:36-40), and Matthew describes the faithful dead at large in the streets of Jerusalem ((Matthew 27:52-53). It's by no means clear how these stories relate to Paul's 'incorruptible putting on incorruption'. since implicitly all those risen died again in due course. The many many Greek stories can also be ambiguous as to the state of the one returned from the dead ie the extent to which it was spiritual, like the souls in the Underworld, or corporeal, or something intermediate.

I was thinking about this today. Paul related his experience about his transformation due to his meeting with Jesus and not everybody believed him and moreso in the way of persecution.

 

[YoursTrue]

Thank goodness! I'm encouraged when religious people change their interpretation of a text to match the available evidence. I think it shows openness and flexibility and humility.

Glad you think so. I agree but it should come from a source you respect. As far as the evidence, it's kind of like slavery, or medicine. Time changes things as knowledge increases and cultures change. For instance, slavery was virtually de rigueur thousands of years ago. Take care...

 

[YoursTrue]

Ah, my brave friend, you're miles ahead of me. I keep getting these impressions, sort of "God so hated the Jews that [he] sent [his] only son to create a rival sect that would persecute them for a couple of thousand years and counting."

Which isn't a Jewish way of seeing it, I'd guess ─ just the Christian version.

Re-reading this, let me say in order to understand things, God was specific in his commands to the nation. Remember the nation virtually signed a contract with the Almighty God through Moses. But...the Bible (the account) starts with Adam, goes through Noah, then Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Then the enslavement of the descendants of Jacob. Name changed to Israel. Then the prophets. Then Jesus. Then the apostles To sum up, Adam was not an Israelite. Neither was Noah. You might want to look up some information about Israel at www.jw.org.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Re-reading this, let me say in order to understand things, God was specific in his commands to the nation. Remember the nation virtually signed a contract with the Almighty God through Moses. But...the Bible (the account) starts with Adam, goes through Noah, then Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Then the enslavement of the descendants of Jacob. Name changed to Israel. Then the prophets. Then Jesus. Then the apostles To sum up, Adam was not an Israelite. Neither was Noah. You might want to look up some information about Israel at www.jw.org.

If you studied the history of the Bible you would know that Genesis and Exodus are mythical. They were written far more recently than you think that they were.

 

[Left Coast]

Glad you think so. I agree but it should come from a source you respect. As far as the evidence, it's kind of like slavery, or medicine. Time changes things as knowledge increases and cultures change. For instance, slavery was virtually de rigueur thousands of years ago. Take care...

Agreed, which is why we see old texts like the Bible condone slavery and endorse inaccurate understandings of the world. Thankfully we've moved beyond those understandings, including many religious folks.

 

[Ludi]

If you studied the history of the Bible you would know that Genesis and Exodus are mythical. They were written far more recently than you think that they were.

Genesis is not mythical. It says in Genesis that God formed man out of the clay of the earth, and I don't think thousands of years ago, are even hundreds of years ago, that anyone could have possibly understood what the flesh was made of, and yet now we do know the human body is made up of water and elements from this earth. Now God warned man if he 'ate' from the tree of knowledge, he was surely doomed to die. This also happens to be a fact, as once man went into words, he attached 'himself' to the flesh, which was surely doomed to die. And the concept of death was created by self, not by the LORD God. As no human being was ever born with the concept of death, it is something the 'self' has to teach you first. Now this purely conscious 'state' God gave Adam and Eve, was the exact same purely conscious state we were all given, there was absolutely no difference. And this 'state' we were all created IN, was not just perfectly alive, it was also a state of absolute truth. And that 'state' inside of you, given to everyone by Jesus at 'birth,' cannot be changed, are effected in any way. It is just as perfectly alive, and just as perfectly innocent, as moment you came to life IN it, and WITH Jesus, as a newborn baby, and this newborn 'baby' inside you will remain exactly the 'same' throughout your entire life, to the moment you leave. And it was we perceive as our subconscious. And is why Jesus said, in speaking of both the life He gives everyone, and His Father, says, have you never read the text, out of infants and nursling you have brought forth praise, because babies are alive with Him. Now that warning about going into words, are 'into' the tree of knowledge, has also created an absolutely massive amount of problems and destruction in this world. And if you were to trace it all back, it did not have anything to do with consciousness itself. what Jesus gave us, It was all done IN words, and by combining 'words' together, that are not 'conscious' of their own meanings, and are completely 'unaware' of any word put, are projected beside 'them.' Which is also why Jesus said, He was both the truth, and the Life. And what Jesus said was directly related to His Father's warning. And if you read Genesis, after the man disobeys God, and creates self, the LORD God says, look the man has become like one of us, knowing what is good and what is bad. And so the LORD God was talking to someone, and that was His Son Jesus, who was there in the very beginning, who gave everyone Life, including Adam and Eve. And I only added this post to be honest, not to argue, are hurt anyone's feelings in any way, as that would be the furthest thing from my mind, as this world has enough problems. And if I did hurt anyone's feelings in any way, I am truly sorry.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Genesis is not mythical. It says in Genesis that God formed man out of the clay of the earth, and I don't think thousands of years ago, are even hundreds of years ago, that anyone could have possibly understood what the flesh was made of, and yet now we do know the human body is made up of water and elements from this earth. Now God warned man if he 'ate' from the tree of knowledge, he was surely doomed to die. This also happens to be a fact, as once man went into words, he attached 'himself' to the flesh, which was surely doomed to die. And the concept of death was created by self, not by the LORD God. As no human being was ever born with the concept of death, it is something the 'self' has to teach you first. Now this purely conscious 'state' God gave Adam and Eve, was the exact same purely conscious state we were all given, there was absolutely no difference. And this 'state' we were all created IN, was not just perfectly alive, it was also a state of absolute truth. And that 'state' inside of you, given to everyone by Jesus at 'birth,' cannot be changed, are effected in any way. It is just as perfectly alive, and just as perfectly innocent, as moment you came to life IN it, and WITH Jesus, as a newborn baby, and this newborn 'baby' inside you will remain exactly the 'same' throughout your entire life, to the moment you leave. And it was we perceive as our subconscious. And is why Jesus said, in speaking of both the life He gives everyone, and His Father, says, have you never read the text, out of infants and nursling you have brought forth praise, because babies are alive with Him. Now that warning about going into words, are 'into' the tree of knowledge, has also created an absolutely massive amount of problems and destruction in this world. And if you were to trace it all back, it did not have anything to do with consciousness itself. what Jesus gave us, It was all done IN words, and by combining 'words' together, that are not 'conscious' of their own meanings, and are completely 'unaware' of any word put, are projected beside 'them.' Which is also why Jesus said, He was both the truth, and the Life. And what Jesus said was directly related to His Father's warning. And if you read Genesis, after the man disobeys God, and creates self, the LORD God says, look the man has become like one of us, knowing what is good and what is bad. And so the LORD God was talking to someone, and that was His Son Jesus, who was there in the very beginning, who gave everyone Life, including Adam and Eve. And I only added this post to be honest, not to argue, are hurt anyone's feelings in any way, as that would be the furthest thing from my mind, as this world has enough problems. And if I did hurt anyone's feelings in any way, I am truly sorry.

Of course it is mythical. The stories in it were refuted a long time ago. You are making the error of being overly literal when it comes to the Bible.

You should be asking how we know that it is mythical. But if you want to continue to believe that God is a liar you have that right too. I am not sure if he would appreciate it if he were real.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Genesis is not mythical. It says in Genesis that God formed man out of the clay of the earth, and I don't think thousands of years ago, are even hundreds of years ago, that anyone could have possibly understood what the flesh was made of, and yet now we do know the human body is made up of water and elements from this earth.

No. Everything is made of elements, not elements of this earth or Earth.

Now God warned man if he 'ate' from the tree of knowledge, he was surely doomed to die. This also happens to be a fact, as once man went into words, he attached 'himself' to the flesh, which was surely doomed to die. And the concept of death was created by self, not by the LORD God. As no human being was ever born with the concept of death, it is something the 'self' has to teach you first.

So we were doomed to be what? Animals as we had been previously - and still are? You must have to disregard a lot of evidenced science to believe this load of tosh.

Now this purely conscious 'state' God gave Adam and Eve, was the exact same purely conscious state we were all given, there was absolutely no difference. And this 'state' we were all created IN, was not just perfectly alive, it was also a state of absolute truth. And that 'state' inside of you, given to everyone by Jesus at 'birth,' cannot be changed, are effected in any way. It is just as perfectly alive, and just as perfectly innocent, as moment you came to life IN it, and WITH Jesus, as a newborn baby, and this newborn 'baby' inside you will remain exactly the 'same' throughout your entire life, to the moment you leave.

You probably haven't looked within yourself too much then, or looked as to our history, unless you limit such to religious texts. Your issue.

And it was we perceive as our subconscious. And is why Jesus said, in speaking of both the life He gives everyone, and His Father, says, have you never read the text, out of infants and nursling you have brought forth praise, because babies are alive with Him. Now that warning about going into words, are 'into' the tree of knowledge, has also created an absolutely massive amount of problems and destruction in this world. And if you were to trace it all back, it did not have anything to do with consciousness itself. what Jesus gave us, It was all done IN words, and by combining 'words' together, that are not 'conscious' of their own meanings, and are completely 'unaware' of any word put, are projected beside 'them.'

I'd love to see a world without words - like back a few hundred thousand or millions of years ago. Words gave you the ability to spew forth as you are doing.

Which is also why Jesus said, He was both the truth, and the Life. And what Jesus said was directly related to His Father's warning. And if you read Genesis, after the man disobeys God, and creates self, the LORD God says, look the man has become like one of us, knowing what is good and what is bad. And so the LORD God was talking to someone, and that was His Son Jesus, who was there in the very beginning, who gave everyone Life, including Adam and Eve. And I only added this post to be honest, not to argue, are hurt anyone's feelings in any way, as that would be the furthest thing from my mind, as this world has enough problems. And if I did hurt anyone's feelings in any way, I am truly sorry.

You flatter yourself if you might think any of this might offend - it just deserves an appropriate response. And one guided by thought rather than dogmatic belief.

And please break up your posts into appropriate smaller paragraphs.

 

[blü 2]

I was thinking about this today. Paul related his experience about his transformation due to his meeting with Jesus and not everybody believed him and moreso in the way of persecution.

Its significance is that Paul, like every other NT author, never met an historical Jesus; and although it's an exaggeration, there's some substance to his claim in Galatians 1:12 that everything he tells us about Jesus comes out of his own head.

Paul's Jesus, like the Jesus of the author of John, but unlike the authors of Mark, Matthew or Luke, is the gnostic demiurge, who pre-exists in heaven with God and who creates the material universe eg

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Philippians 2:5 [...] Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.

(And compare John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

John 17:5 and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory that I had with thee before the world was made.)
​

Gnosticism, of course, is Greek; Paul adapts substantial parts of it to his views of Jesus.

 

[YoursTrue]

Its significance is that Paul, like every other NT author, never met an historical Jesus; and although it's an exaggeration, there's some substance to his claim in Galatians 1:12 that everything he tells us about Jesus comes out of his own head.

Paul's Jesus, like the Jesus of the author of John, but unlike the authors of Mark, Matthew or Luke, is the gnostic demiurge, who pre-exists in heaven with God and who creates the material universe eg

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Philippians 2:5 [...] Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.

(And compare John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

John 17:5 and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory that I had with thee before the world was made.)
​

Gnosticism, of course, is Greek; Paul adapts substantial parts of it to his views of Jesus.

I would think Jesus half brother James, met him. Also, the historian Josephus spoke about that as well.

 

[YoursTrue]

No. Everything is made of elements, not elements of this earth or Earth.

Looking at your comment, where was the first vestige of life started? In space? Where did it land and what happened?

 

[Mock Turtle]

Looking at your comment, where was the first vestige of life started? In space? Where did it land and what happened?

Well I think there is a difference in understanding as to what the elements are, and as to where they are created (mostly in stars from what I gather), and some text from long ago citing the earth as being the origin for anything. Just flowery language to explain roughly the same thing (but being different) to not-so-knowledgeable folk of the time, and not being a scientific description or the truth. No idea where life arose. It may have come from off Earth or from our planet. And I might never know.

 

[Ludi]

No. Everything is made of elements, not elements of this earth or Earth.

So we were doomed to be what? Animals as we had been previously - and still are? You must have to disregard a lot of evidenced science to believe this load of tosh.

You probably haven't looked within yourself too much then, or looked as to our history, unless you limit such to religious texts. Your issue.

I'd love to see a world without words - like back a few hundred thousand or millions of years ago. Words gave you the ability to spew forth as you are doing.

You flatter yourself if you might think any of this might offend - it just deserves an appropriate response. And one guided by thought rather than dogmatic belief.

And please break up your posts into appropriate smaller paragraphs.

Good morning thank you for your response, just two small things here, that I have to least defend. One is that I am 100 percent on the side on both God and Jesus, and would never ever call either of them liars, because they give me both life, and everything in my life. And their ways, kindness and wisdom, are my ways, they are also the right ways. And God helped Adam with the creation of words, as is described when God would form things, and whatever the man called them would be their name. But there is a massive different between understanding and using words properly, and going 'into' words. So even though I'm not sure if this will mean anything to you, I am sorry. And I hope you have a great day.

 

[Ludi]

No. Everything is made of elements, not elements of this earth or Earth.

So we were doomed to be what? Animals as we had been previously - and still are? You must have to disregard a lot of evidenced science to believe this load of tosh.

You probably haven't looked within yourself too much then, or looked as to our history, unless you limit such to religious texts. Your issue.

I'd love to see a world without words - like back a few hundred thousand or millions of years ago. Words gave you the ability to spew forth as you are doing.

You flatter yourself if you might think any of this might offend - it just deserves an appropriate response. And one guided by thought rather than dogmatic belief.

And please break up your posts into appropriate smaller paragraphs.

And all I meant by not calling them liars is I was simply defending what they said, and in no way was a reference to anything you said.Just so you did't take that the wrong way. So again sorry I should have been more carefull with my use of words.