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Left wingers in USA seem to be more imperialist fascists than right wingers nowadays
- Thread starter Lars
- Start date
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
And then there is this impressive site:
BibViz Project - Bible Contradictions, Misogyny, Violence, Inaccuracies interactively visualized
ElishaElijah
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You should check these out yourself a lot of problems with your source and their examples are incorrect.
For example #95 If you read the account you would see Saul fell on his sword and the Amalekite lied to David about the whole thing.
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ElishaElijah
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God provided everything we need
ElishaElijah
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You’re not allowed to preach so sharing what I know and answering questions you ask. If you think I’m preaching then should stick to fossil fuels and why I believe we aren’t running out. You believe we are yet you can’t tell me how much fuel we have left and when we will run out. Seems you’re the one preaching a doctrine of fear based on someone’s assumption and opinion.
So why couldn't the author of the universe produce a clear and unambiguous book of theology?
ElishaElijah
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The Bible is clear although I didn’t understand it till I was born again by the Holy Spirit and then everything made sense and was crystal clear, until then I was blind to it.
“We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. However, as it is written: “What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived”— the things God has prepared for those who love him— these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.”
1 Corinthians 2:6-16 NIV
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
And you know this ... how?
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
"Faith is the excuse people give for believing something when they don't have evidence." -Matt Dillahunty
I asked for a demonstration of the veracity of your claims. You gave me "faith." Good thing scientists work a littler harder than that, eh?
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Actually, it is "spiritual matters" that are the weakness here, given that they are apparently untestable, despite the fact that it's believers declare it to be true without any demonstration whatsoever.
ElishaElijah
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That is the atheists definition of faith for sure but not the dictionary’s or the biblical definition.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Well, it seems to fit quite perfectly here.
You even demonstrated it for me, as I pointed out in that post (but you conveniently cut out that part in your response to me).
ElishaElijah
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I did but you aren’t understanding what I said so will use a hypothetical.
You ask your Dad for help paying for a house and he says sure, I will deposit 500k in this account and it’s in your name should pay off the house and in 10 years I will give you 1 Million more.
The faith part is whether you believe your Dad or not. The evidence that you have faith is you go to the bank and get the money and don’t need faith for that anymore. When you get the 500K and you pay off your house will you believe your Dad for the 1 Million?
I’ve received a down payment from God already and have faith to receive the rest of my inheritance later on.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
You didn't. You told me about "faith" instead. Then preached at me from a Bible you claim is true without any demonstration that it is true in the first place.
Sorry but this analogy doesn't work. I know my Dad exists. I can show him to you. I know he has a job, and earns money, I can interact with him, etc. I'm already starting miles ahead of your claims about the god you worship that you can't even show exists in the first place.
A better analogy here would be that I ask you for evidence that your father exists, and instead of producing him for me, or showing me a photo of him or his driver's license or something, you tell me I have to take it on faith that he exists. I mean, once you say that, I'm already wary that he may not actually exist.
ElishaElijah
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I did tell you what faith was and gave you a hypothetical situation. God has revealed Himself to me and gave me the Holy Spirit and is active in my everyday life. Whether or not you believe that is up to you and not up to me. If my answers came across as preaching then not sure what to make of that, not sure I can answer Bible and faith questions any other way than I did. So have a good day.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
You're good at the claims part, not so good on the evidence/demonstration of your claims part.
It comes off as preaching because it is. You just keep stating what you believe without attempting to demonstrate that it's actually true. You just declare it is.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Also, there are four accounts of the women's visit to Jesus' tomb, and there are no two that are exactly alike. Did the event occur? Probably, imo, but the details are quite "fuzzy" to say the least.
So, it's not that I believe the scriptures are unreliable but it's because I believe we need to look at the broader picture and use our judgement as best as possible knowing that we simply cannot and do not know everything. As I've written many times here at RF, certainty is the enemy of serious theology.
In my case, it's what was Jesus in general trying to tell us, and if the Gospel is accurate on this, it's his Two Commandments: love of God and love of neighbor [aka everyone]. With this approach, we can have a harmonious relationship with people of other denominations and religious faiths and even agnostics. As Augustine of Hippo said when asked if he knew all the important answers, he replied that wasn't even too sure what all the important questions are.
Knowledge brings uncertainty at times. To a child, a tree is simple; to a biologist, it's highly complex. Or, as Confucius supposedly taught [paraphrased], the more you know, the more you know you really don't know that much.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
What drives me nuts at times is that Christianity is defensible as a religion. One needs to look at the big picture and admit that there are flaws in the story when taken at all literally. Apologists almost always make the mistake of trying to defend the weakest parts of the religion instead of concentrating on its strengths.
ElishaElijah
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You’d have to come hang out to see if
ElishaElijah
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You can’t see God with your physical eye but all of Creation is shouting out and demonstrating His qualities and existence. At least I can see that and undeniable.
As far as explaining the difference between your idea of faith which is just wishful thinking and baseless and the biblical view where a person hears God and acts on and receives what He promised are completely different from each other.
Do you see that or no?