Left wingers in USA seem to be more imperialist fascists than right wingers nowadays

[SkepticThinker]

You’d have to come hang out to see if

I shouldn't have to.

Besides, I used to be a Christian. I'm not anymore. The claims didn't ring true for me.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You can’t see God with your physical eye but all of Creation is shouting out and demonstrating His qualities and existence. At least I can see that and undeniable.

More assertions lacking in evidence.
"Oh, the evidence is everything around you." That's not a demonstration of any claims about the existence of gods.

As far as explaining the difference between your idea of faith which is just wishful thinking and baseless and the biblical view where a person hears God and acts on and receives what He promised are completely different from each other.
Do you see that or no?

You've already thoroughly demonstrated and illustrated that my definition of the word "faith" is quite accurate.

 

[ElishaElijah]

What drives me nuts at times is that Christianity is defensible as a religion. One needs to look at the big picture and admit that there are flaws in the story when taken at all literally. Apologists almost always make the mistake of trying to defend the weakest parts of the religion instead of concentrating on its strengths.

In your opinion what are the strengths of Christianity?

 

[Subduction Zone]

You can’t see God with your physical eye but all of Creation is shouting out and demonstrating His qualities and existence. At least I can see that and undeniable.
As far as explaining the difference between your idea of faith which is just wishful thinking and baseless and the biblical view where a person hears God and acts on and receives what He promised are completely different from each other.
Do you see that or no?

This appears to be confirmation bias. What we see and observe can be tested. Guess what idea is supported when we test our ideas about the planet that we live on?

 

[Subduction Zone]

In your opinion what are the strengths of Christianity?

Some of the teachings of Jesus are pretty strong stuff.

 

[Valjean]

The Bible is clear although I didn’t understand it till I was born again by the Holy Spirit and then everything made sense and was crystal clear, until then I was blind to it.

That's the very definition of unclear.
If you already have to believe, and already be committed to a particular doctrine in order understand it, then there's no reasoning or evidence involved, it's blind faith, based on nothing but emotion.

ElishaElijah said: ↑
That is the atheists definition of faith for sure but not the dictionary’s or the biblical definition.

OK -- so what's your definition?
"Unfounded belief" is how the word is normally used, when contrasted with knowledge.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Some of the teachings of Jesus are pretty strong stuff.

Which teachings are you referring to?

 

[Valjean]

You're good at the claims part, not so good on the evidence/demonstration of your claims part.

It comes off as preaching because it is. You just keep stating what you believe without attempting to demonstrate that it's actually true. You just declare it is.

Apparently he was never taught how to reason logically, how to use and evaluate evidence, or how to think critically. He confuses feeling with thinking.

 

[ElishaElijah]

OK -- so what's your definition?
"Unfounded belief" is how the word is normally used, when contrasted with knowledge.

“Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭NIV‬‬
Someone shares the gospel and if you believe what God says you act on this Word. You repent and receive Christ, when I heard the gospel I acted on this I had faith, I believed Christ Died and rose from the dead and was offering me forgiveness and eternal life. When I made that covenant God gave me the Holy Spirit and I was changed. If nothing happened when I prayed then I wouldn’t be telling you anything about it. I would’ve been the same as I was before, a hopeless drug addict and alcoholic. Hebrews 11 also shows the definition of faith with more examples.

 

[Valjean]

You can’t see God with your physical eye but all of Creation is shouting out and demonstrating His qualities and existence. At least I can see that and undeniable.

I can't see air or electricity, either, but I believe they exist because I can measure and test them. I have empirical evidence that they exist.
What observable, testable evidence is there for your God?

I could claim that all of creation demonstrates the engineering of cosmic creator mice, but with no evidence of them, I wouldn't expect you to believe in them. I could claim that once faith opens your eyes their existence will be revealed clearly.
How is my claim any different from yours?

As far as explaining the difference between your idea of faith which is just wishful thinking and baseless and the biblical view where a person hears God and acts on and receives what He promised are completely different from each other.
Do you see that or no?

Lots of people hear voices and hold unevidenced beliefs. They're usually put on medication.
How is your claim any different from your average schizophrenic's? The only reasonable way to distinguish the two would be evidence, yet you have no more than the schizophrenic.

 

[Valjean]

“Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭NIV‬‬

OK -- but this doesn't address the question.

Someone shares the gospel and if you believe what God says you act on this Word. You repent and receive Christ, when I heard the gospel I acted on this I had faith, I believed Christ Died and rose from the dead and was offering me forgiveness and eternal life. When I made that covenant God gave me the Holy Spirit and I was changed. If nothing happened when I prayed then I wouldn’t be telling you anything about it. I would’ve been the same as I was before, a hopeless drug addict and alcoholic. Hebrews 11 also shows the definition of faith with more examples.

Again, what does this have to do with the question?
Hebrews 11 is quoted all the time. Look at it closely. It's poetic gobbledygook. It's not a definition. It's not even a clear description.

Q: What is the difference between faith and knowledge?
Q: How could your belief in God be falsified? What would it take to convince you that your theology was untrue?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The Bible is clear although I didn’t understand it till I was born again by the Holy Spirit and then everything made sense and was crystal clear, until then I was blind to it.

Good thing I gained that understanding before I left.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I can't see air or electricity, either, but I believe they exist because I can measure and test them. I have empirical evidence that they exist.
What observable, testable evidence is there for your God?

God did something for me and I was changed, this is observable and testable and I had no ability to change myself like He did. This is consistent with everyone who has been born again. If and when you experience this you will know and probably say to yourself I can’t believe I never saw this. It’s so obvious.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Which teachings are you referring to?

Are you that unaware of the teachings of your own Bible? Mark 12 31 is a perfect example.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God did something for me and I was changed, this is observable and testable and I had no ability to change myself like He did. This is consistent with everyone who has been born again. If and when you experience this you will know and probably say to yourself I can’t believe I never saw this. It’s so obvious.

Really? So far you have resisted devising any tests for it. What do you think would be a valid test of that claim? So far you have only used confirmation bias. That is not a proper test.

A proper test could show you to be wrong. That is much more valuable than one that seems to confirm your beliefs. That can be found with all sorts of religions.

 

[Valjean]

God did something for me and I was changed, this is observable and testable and I had no ability to change myself like He did. This is consistent with everyone who has been born again. If and when you experience this you will know and probably say to yourself I can’t believe I never saw this. It’s so obvious.

The change may be testable, the transformation may be attributable to a new belief system, but none of this demonstrates the truth of the new beliefs.
People adopt all sorts of new religions and belief systems all the time. Often their lives are transformed, but the transformations have nothing to do with which belief system is adopted. They all work. Your Christianity s not unique.
New belief systems are "so obvious" no matter which system is accepted, but the veracity of the belief itself remains unevidenced.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Are you that unaware of the teachings of your own Bible? Mark 12 31 is a perfect example.

How would you argue that as evidence and a proper test?

 

[ElishaElijah]

I can't see air or electricity, either, but I believe they exist because I can measure and test them. I have empirical evidence that they exist.
What observable, testable evidence is there for your God?

I could claim that all of creation demonstrates the engineering of cosmic creator mice, but with no evidence of them, I wouldn't expect you to believe in them. I could claim that once faith opens your eyes their existence will be revealed clearly.
How is my claim any different from yours?

Lots of people hear voices and hold unevidenced beliefs. They're usually put on medication.
How is your claim any different from your average schizophrenic's? The only reasonable way to distinguish the two would be evidence, yet you have no more than the schizophrenic.

So I was an addict and alcoholic and a messed up life and God delivered me and went from bankrupt in every way to successful and faithful husband and father all because of God and your equivalence is schizophrenic.
So are you saying you have evidence that there is no God?

 

[Subduction Zone]

How would you argue that as evidence and a proper test?

No, it is not evidence. It is a way to behave in life. That was a rather odd question.

 

[Valjean]

So I was an addict and alcoholic and a messed up life and God delivered me and went from bankrupt in every way to successful and faithful husband and father all because of God and your equivalence is schizophrenic.
So are you saying you have evidence that there is no God?

I don't need evidence there is no god. The burden of proof is on the one making the claim -- that would be you.

Now, you got your life together by adopting a certain religion. That's not evidence the religious doctrine is true, it's just evidence that it moved you to adopt a new lifestyle, which was therapeutically effective for you.

Again. Adopting new religions, beliefs, therapeutic modalities,medications, &c works for lots of people, and it doesn't matter what belief system is adopted. Just because it helped you is not evidence it's true, just that it was effective in your particular case.

Let me ask you this. Since you believe in god, what evidence do you have that a god exists?
Remember this is your claim. The burden is on you to support it, not on anyone else to disprove it.