Vaccine mandate for all state workers in Washington State

[Twilight Hue]

And science and doctors have never been wrong about anything? Scientific knowledge is constantly changing. To say that the vaccine is effective in preventing serious disease and hospitalizations is true because there is evidence of that, but to say that the vaccine is guaranteed to be safe is rather naive. These are new vaccines with no track record and even if it did have one, there is no way one can track down all the changes that take place in a human body as the result of injecting a foreign substance. Moreover all people do not have the exact same chemical makeup and health conditions.

One cannot even quantify the long term effects of vaccines because long term for now, in this case Covid, is non existant.

I think at least 5 to 10 years needs to go by until any effects are noted.

It's peculiar no one is even addressing vaccine shedding much less any of the other issues experimental medicines cause.

Society is hopelessly short term. An "I want it now" generation, without thinking of long term or having any semblance of foresight on just about anything these days.

If it work now, great. That's all that matters.

History repeats itself.

 

[Trailblazer]

It is a false premise that you need to.

You don't get to tell me what I need. Only I know what I need.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

You don't get to tell me what I need. Only I know what I need.

I take it English is your second language.

 

[Trailblazer]

I take it English is your second language.

No, it is my first language.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

No, it is my first language.

Then have another go at what I said. It did not tell you what to do.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then have another go at what I said. It did not tell you what to do.

Trailblazer said: So you can can track down all the changes that take place in a human body as the result of injecting a foreign substance?

Terrywoodenpic said: It is a false premise that you need to.

What did you mean?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Just think, it all started with a single case and spread from there.

Of course it spreads easier and more quickly in towns than the country.
But there is no stopping it. It gets everywhere eventually.
Even with vaccination it will not go away it is already endemic.
However vaccinations will save many many lives everywhere.
But it will be with us for ever now. Eventually in a few generations we may gain natural immunity to it. But not in any of our lifetimes.

Not much point in waiting to die from it. It never announces itself that it has arrived in advance. Better to be vaccinated now. The next person you meet may pass it on to you with a kiss or a handshake. It is friend to no-one.

I'll be honest and don't take this harshly. This sounds like fear.

How quickly it spreads....will save many lives....not much point waiting to die.....better vaccinate "now."

I feel there's a balance in fear or aprehension and keeping a balance of emotions and insight.

That way when we're faced with those who disagree it won't spark a neg reaction (speaking of some others in this thread. I don't hear that from you).

I'm personally scared of mandatory vax not COVID.

But I get what you're saying. I'll have to reply directly later.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I'll be honest and don't take this harshly. This sounds like fear.

How quickly it spreads....will save many lives....not much point waiting to die.....better vaccinate "now."

I feel there's a balance in fear or aprehension and keeping a balance of emotions and insight.

That way when we're faced with those who disagree it won't spark a neg reaction (speaking of some others in this thread. I don't hear that from you).

I'm personally scared of mandatory vax not COVID.

But I get what you're saying. I'll have to reply directly later.

I am too old to fear death.
Covid will take its toll of those who catch it. Some will die, some will get long covid and suffer for months or years, and many will hardly notice anything at all.
It is just the way it works.

Certainly a few hundred have died from reactions to the vaccine. But that is nothing compared to those millions that have now died from covid?

But to put it into proportion more people die Evey day from taking pain killers than have done so from the vaccination.

Trailblazer said: So you can can track down all the changes that take place in a human body as the result of injecting a foreign substance?

Terrywoodenpic said: It is a false premise that you need to.track down all the changes that take place in a human body as the result of injecting a foreign substance?

What did you mean?

I have completed the inferred sentence for you. Above...


Fear of vaccinations is irrational. Fear of the virus is not.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Maybe it will suffice for you but not for me. We are all individuals.
Just like no two cats are alike, no two people are alike.

Luckily we have great advice from Baha'u'llah and we can choose to put our trust in the advice Baha'u'llah has offered.

"Nothing has been found in the Bahá’í Writings on the subject of vaccination. Nevertheless, in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Bahá’u’lláh stated: “Resort ye, in times of sickness, to competent physicians; We have not set aside the use of material means, rather have We confirmed it through this Pen, which God hath made to be the Dawning-place of His shining and glorious Cause.” Moreover, in reply to scientific issues raised on a number of occasions, Shoghi Effendi consistently advised Bahá’ís that such matters would need to be investigated by scientists. In recent decades, advances in medical science have led to the production of effective vaccines, the use of which has freed humanity from many debilitating and deadly infectious diseases. Reports indicate that the coronavirus vaccines currently being developed offer great promise for protecting individuals from, and helping to reduce transmission of, the virus. As to the advisability and efficacy of the various options that may become available, the friends should follow the counsel of medical and other scientific experts." Letter dated 8 Dec. 2020 to an individual (On behalf of the Universal House of Justice, 8 December 2020)

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I am too old to fear death.
Covid will take its toll of those who catch it. Some will die, some will get long covid and suffer for months or years, and many will hardly notice anything at all.
It is just the way it works.

Certainly a few hundred have died from reactions to the vaccine. But that is nothing compared to those millions that have now died from covid?

But to put it into proportion more people die Evey day from taking pain killers than have done so from the vaccination.


I have completed the inferred sentence for you. Above...


Fear of vaccinations is irrational. Fear of the virus is not.

Fear of vaccine mandates not the vaccine.

 

[metis]

Here, the governor ordered "no mask mandates" in Arizona,

And I'll betcha he claims to be pro-life.

 

[Trailblazer]

Fear of vaccinations is irrational. Fear of the virus is not.

That ALL depends upon one's life situation.
Fear of the virus is irrational if one is socially isolated. Is it going to blow in my window from the adjacent acreage?
Fear of vaccinations is rational since some people have had adverse reactions or have died from the vaccination. That is proof positive that it is possible to have adverse reactions or die from the vaccination.

 

[Trailblazer]

Luckily we have great advice from Baha'u'llah and we can choose to put our trust in the advice Baha'u'llah has offered.

"Nothing has been found in the Bahá’í Writings on the subject of vaccination. Nevertheless, in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Bahá’u’lláh stated: “Resort ye, in times of sickness, to competent physicians; We have not set aside the use of material means, rather have We confirmed it through this Pen, which God hath made to be the Dawning-place of His shining and glorious Cause.” Moreover, in reply to scientific issues raised on a number of occasions, Shoghi Effendi consistently advised Bahá’ís that such matters would need to be investigated by scientists. In recent decades, advances in medical science have led to the production of effective vaccines, the use of which has freed humanity from many debilitating and deadly infectious diseases. Reports indicate that the coronavirus vaccines currently being developed offer great promise for protecting individuals from, and helping to reduce transmission of, the virus. As to the advisability and efficacy of the various options that may become available, the friends should follow the counsel of medical and other scientific experts." Letter dated 8 Dec. 2020 to an individual (On behalf of the Universal House of Justice, 8 December 2020)

Regards Tony

Problem is that Baha'u'llah has not offered any advice on vaccinations... Why mix religion with science? Why does everything have to be about the Baha'i Faith?

No, there is no advice from Baha'u'llah stating that we should all get vaccinated even though you would like to use it as such because I can find a 'competent physician' who advises me against taking the vaccine.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No, that is not any advice from Baha'u'llah stating that we should all get vaccinated even though you would like to use it as such because I can find a 'competent physician' who advises me against taking the vaccine.

I have personally found we can justify all that we want to in our own mind.

That does not make it right, or even a wise choice.

I would offer those that fight vaccination against Covid-19 are just insulting good science and the best medical advice available, which in turn reflects badly on what Baha'u'llah offered.

Do not worry Susan, I was nearly having the same stance, but then I saw what it can do to family, friends and community and saw that the need is not to be selfish with my own thoughts, but to do it for the whole.

I was lucky to be able to have the Pfizer, I would not have chosen the AstraZeneca. My wife also has had it, and she has poor health, but came through like a champion.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Problem is that Baha'u'llah has not offered any advice on vaccinations... Why mix religion with science? Why does everything have to be about the Baha'i Faith?

No, there is no advice from Baha'u'llah stating that we should all get vaccinated even though you would like to use it as such because I can find a 'competent physician' who advises me against taking the vaccine.

It has all to do with Faith Susan. The Messengers come so that all our thoughts and actions are focused on knowing and loving God and becoming One in Spirit and purpose.

It has been written when we do this suffering and ills will vanish.

I do know there are writings that mention poison and how a little of a poison becomes the Elixer. I would have to find them, but I am off for the day.

In the end, that may be your quandary, maybe it is a quandary of faith?

Regards Tony

 

[Revoltingest]

I have no issues with social distancing and masks. I feel vaccination should be personal decision…..

We should all note that it is such under the law.
But personal decisions can have consequences with one’s employer and one’s relationship with others, eg, stores, who also make decisions about how to protect employees and customers.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have personally found we can justify all that we want to in our own mind.

The same thing applies to you.

That does not make it right, or even a wise choice.

And how do you know what is the right choice for other people or is it just 'one size fits all'?

I would offer those that fight vaccination against Covid-19 are just insulting good science and the best medical advice available, which in turn reflects badly on what Baha'u'llah offered.

This is not related to what Baha'u'llah offered so it does not reflect badly on what He offered. This is just you trying to make what Baha'u'llah wrote fit your personal agenda.

Do not worry Susan, I was nearly having the same stance, but then I saw what it can do to family, friends and community and saw that the need is not to be selfish with my own thoughts, but to do it for the whole.

I am not worried at all because I have no friends or family or community I interact with, and I am not selfish because I am not putting anyone at risk. How am I doing anything for the whole, just so they can add me to the numbers of vaccinated?

Are you capable of seeing other people as different from or do you assume we all have to be the same?

BEAUTY AND HARMONY IN DIVERSITY

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We should all note that it is such under the law.
But personal decisions can have consequences with one’s employer and one’s relationship with others, eg, stores, who also make decisions about how to protect employees and customers.

It depends on the decision. When making the best choice for ones health and others becomes primary, it could be beneficial or consequential.

What other factors are involved to judge if employees are in danger in addition to potential possible spread of COVID from unvaxed consumers ?

How do you judge the level of risk to know what actions are more appropriate than others when deciding how much employees are at risk?

How would you explain to potential unvaccinated consumers that they pose a danger to your employees?

When consumers don't see how they can infect others it becomes your word against theirs.

Just staying "no unvax in this business" is not enough.

Quoting facts doesn't address other factors that Should be involved so that consumers Know why they can't shop not just have a yellow star saying they can't.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

If I recall, some guy by the name of John said "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." (John 15:13)

It is now known for an absolute certainty that the vaccine is an effective way to prevent serious illness and death, and could eventually lead to COVID-19 being just another flu-like nuisance that many people who care for themselves and others protect themselves against -- with a vaccination.

And what's really sad is that nobody is even asking you to lay down your life -- just roll up your damned sleeve!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Revoltingest

For example, about a year ago businesses tested people's temp before entering their facility.

If you had a fever (for whatever reason) you could not enter. This factor is justified because it is not preventing those who MAY be asymptomatic but addressing with evidence those who are (COVID or not) to judge who should shop.

Just being unvaccinated says nothing about ones "COVID status."

People have full knowledge Why they can't enter the store when the store has evidence (the temp reading) that they could pose a risk.

-

I get why people cant enter the store in the store with a temp. Unless you explain to consumers how They are at risk, it's pretty much a guess. No evidence.

Why would I agree with you that unvax are at risk when there is no way to prove it?

Without evidence it's a gray area. Have to have more evidence to know whose in danger and who isn't.