Vaccine mandate for all state workers in Washington State

[Unveiled Artist]

Apart from a few wild woods men no one lives a totally contactless life.
No one has natural immunity to covid. Native Americans were mostly separate from the. Whites when they were almost wiped out by smallpox.

Statistics show what has actually happened. It is not the make believe, that you seem to prefer and rely on.

This is a generalization. How do you know?

The world is too huge to know every person's living circumstances.

 

[SomeRandom]

No. I was just saying using the word "save" is appropriate in this context because the world is literally trying to get people vaccinated to save themselves from the effects of the virus.

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion from my clarifying how the word save would be used.

Okay my mistake. But why would saving people be a bad thing, exactly? Are you against saving people?

Nothing. I doubt any person vax/unvax, pro/antivax would disagree to stop the pandemic.

I do not share your optimism. Lol. But I would hope you are correct

Not all preventive measures are appropriate for All people as a group.

Masks literally slow the spread of the virus. As far as I’m aware this is literally standard practice. Otherwise why the hell would doctors and nurses rely on masks for the last 100 years to prevent the spread of any disease?

Shrugs. Outside elementary school, I've never taken vaccines... Flu, measles, etc. I don't see it silly since my situation didn't give me a significant reason to get those vaccines. I'm indifferent.

So you agree with me in saying that they deny science based vaccines? Making them basically look like morons to the broader public? Way to go, Karens

Science deniers???

People who whined incessantly about “personal liberties” whilst undermining known preventative measures we’ve used to slow the spread of COVID for the last year or so?
A bunch of “Karen’s” in the modern lexicon. Sorry.
That’s reality

A lot of unvaxed know how vaccines work etc and choose not to vaccinate.

A lot of unvaccinated seem anxious and use debunked pseudoscience to justify their outdated fear mongering, that much I have encountered. They’re one step short of blaming vaccines for autism, like the out of touch boomers that they are. Sorry not sorry

How does not vaxing tell you what people know, don't know, what they reject or accept?

It doesn’t tell me anything. But it does belie an anti scientific sentiment which is thoroughly laughed at in this day and age by anyone remotely acquainted with anything resembling academia. I’m really trying to extend an olive branch. But this is 2021, not 1940. I’m sorry. But grow up and read the literature properly

 

[SomeRandom]

No. I was just saying using the word "save" is appropriate in this context because the world is literally trying to get people vaccinated to save themselves from the effects of the virus.

Okay. So, I’m sorry what’s the problem again? I’m confused

Nothing. I doubt any person vax/unvax, pro/antivax would disagree to stop the pandemic.

You have much more faith in the public than I do. Lol Most people seem to not give a damn

Not all preventive measures are appropriate for All people as a group.

As in? What studies do you have to disprove this? Social distancing has been proven to slow the spread of literally every single virus known to mankind. And yet it’s not the case with COVID because???? What’s the science to back that statement exactly?
Or masks? You claim there’s no science denial, so post the actual accredited scientific studies

Shrugs. Outside elementary school, I've never taken vaccines... Flu, measles, etc. I don't see it silly since my situation didn't give me a significant reason to get those vaccines. I'm indifferent.

Ahh so because you’re protected against all the ailments we currently vaccinate for (and have done so for generations) you suddenly take issue with the same approach we have for a virus in today’s world because??????

Science deniers???

Yeah people who whine about masks and vaccines. If you have a medical exemption, fair enough. Otherwise it seems like regular old fashioned science denial to me. Can you explain why it’s not? And just having opinions doesn’t count
Sorry

A lot of unvaxed know how vaccines work etc and choose not to vaccinate.

Yeah we tend to call those people science deniers, even if they claim they aren’t
The hell do you want from me? I can’t sugarcoat reality

How does not vaxing tell you what people know, don't know, what they reject or accept?

It tells me they don’t understand the process by which vaccines are approved and how pandemics work in general. I’m not going to advocate for mandatory vaccines. I’m hopeful there will be over the counter meds in the future. But a vaccine is and always will be the best bet at prevention. Of literally anything
And since prevention is always valued much higher than a cure in medicine, always, I’m gonna side with the worlds leading scientists from multiple different countries, no less
To do otherwise makes you look like an anti science person, which is not a good look. Just saying.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Okay my mistake. But why would saving people be a bad thing, exactly? Are you against saving people?

I mentioned saving the world back when and you didn't care for the word save. You said you weren't saving anyone. I was explaining how that word was appropriate but any other would world do. The point is the same.

I do not share your optimism. Lol. But I would hope you are correct

I'm not political and would know little to none about COVID if not for the internet.

Even if 99.9% of say antivax listened to misinformation doesn't mean they all do. I don't know the world to generalize no matter how factual the logical fallacy may sound.

Masks literally slow the spread of the virus. As far as I’m aware this is literally standard practice. Otherwise why the hell would doctors and nurses rely on masks for the last 100 years to prevent the spread of any disease?

They rely on sanitation, gloves, in some cases gowns, as well as masks. It's a combination.

Masks alone are powerless.

So you agree with me in saying that they deny science based vaccines? Making them basically look like morons to the broader public? Way to go, Karens

No.

I said choosing not vaccinating does not equate to denying science.

I choose not to take aspirin for a headache but never denied that it works. Vaccines the same.

It doesn’t tell me anything. But it does belie an anti scientific sentiment which is thoroughly laughed at in this day and age by anyone remotely acquainted with anything resembling academia. I’m really trying to extend an olive branch. But this is 2021, not 1940. I’m sorry. But grow up and read the literature properly

I'm all by my lonesome, really. The only thing that bothers me now is the mandates. I've never been political and fighting over issues and calling people names for their political parties or character.

 

[SomeRandom]

I mentioned saving the world back when and you didn't care for the word save. You said you weren't saving anyone. I was explaining how that word was appropriate but any other would world do. The point is the same.

I’m sorry. But can you explain to me the point. Because I fear I’m lost

I'm not political and would know little to none about COVID if not for the internet.

I’m Australian. The literal definition of apolitical in the American climate my friend

Even if 99.9% of say antivax listened to misinformation doesn't mean they all do. I don't know the world to generalize no matter how factual the logical fallacy may sound.

True. But just because all creationists don’t listen to chemistry doesn’t mean I can’t then criticise their anti scientific stance. Who the hell cares?

They rely on sanitation, gloves, in some cases gowns, as well as masks. It's a combination.

Yes. PPE. Or personal protective
equipment used for the last century. You have a problem with this all of a sudden?

Masks alone are powerless.

Agreed. But we use them in an attempt to dampen the forest fire. Not to extinguish it. Do you also oppose traffic lights or seat belts?

I said choosing not vaccinating does not equate to denying science.

Not Necessarily but I remain doubtful because all the arguments I’ve encountered rely specifically on anti vaxx rhetoric. Which itself is inherently anti science.
Sorry if that’s inconvenient

I choose not to take aspirin for a headache but never denied that it works. Vaccines the same.

I choose not to take Panadol. What’s your point? I have paracetamol to fall back on. Though there are also side affects to consider

I'm all by my lonesome, really. The only thing that bothers me now is the mandates. I've never been political and fighting over issues and calling people names for their political parties or character.

Then don’t follow the mandates. Which are only for those who it is applicable.
Why blame science for being inconvenienced? COVID is a lot more troublesome then what your complaint is. Seriously, you’re coming across as entitled, I hope you know that. I don’t think you are, but it’s like complaining that you’re not allowed in a county because your shoes are wrong. Who cares bro? The harsher affects are literally a reality to the rest of us! It may not affect you but it damn sure affect us!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Okay. So, I’m sorry what’s the problem again? I’m confused

I mentioned vaccinated people are trying to save the world and you didn't like the word save. I clarified it using any other word appropriate with the same point, but it seems you're still stuck on it.

You have much more faith in the public than I do. Lol Most people seem to not give a damn

I doubt that's true. If RF was a miniature version of what would go on outside people's heads, they give a damn so much to even wish people dead over it.

What's the benefit of judging people you don't know?

As in? What studies do you have to disprove this? Social distancing has been proven to slow the spread of literally every single virus known to mankind. And yet it’s not the case with COVID because???? What’s the science to back that statement exactly?
Or masks? You claim there’s no science denial, so post the actual accredited scientific studies

What studies do I have to "disprove" this?
Why would I disprove a statement I made. I just thought it was common sense that preventive measures such as vaccination (treatments, whatever) is congruent to one's circumstances. No doctor gives you pills "it works"... there's more involved than that.

Some people don't take the vaccine because they reject science and some people take the vaccine out of ignorance because of fear.... some people. My point is I don't take sides on this.

I claimed that being unvaccinated doesn't mean you deny science.

Not sure where else you're picking this up from.

Ahh so because you’re protected against all the ailments we currently vaccinate for (and have done so for generations) you suddenly take issue with the same approach we have for a virus in today’s world because??????

This one flew over my head. Too many assumptions here. All I said was:

Shrugs. Outside elementary school, I've never taken vaccines... Flu, measles, etc. I don't see it silly since my situation didn't give me a significant reason to get those vaccines. I'm indifferent.

How does this tell you I feel protected from ailments?
How does this have to do with other approaches in history?

Yeah people who whine about masks and vaccines. If you have a medical exemption, fair enough. Otherwise it seems like regular old fashioned science denial to me. Can you explain why it’s not? And just having opinions doesn’t count
Sorry

My thing is don't judge a book by its cover and don't generalize.

Which reminds me that medically exempt can spread the virus too.... so it sounds like you have more issues with people's choices.

Yeah we tend to call those people science deniers, even if they claim they aren’t. The hell do you want from me? I can’t sugarcoat reality

Shrugs. Unless you're saying you know every person in the world quite literally just because they share a vague opinion, it sounds like the reality you're not sugarcoating is yours. Its assuming your reality (how you see things) is how it is.... excuse the analogy: playing god.

It tells me they don’t understand the process by which vaccines are approved and how pandemics work in general. I’m not going to advocate for mandatory vaccines. I’m hopeful there will be over the counter meds in the future. But a vaccine is and always will be the best bet at prevention. Of literally anything

And since prevention is always valued much higher than a cure in medicine, always, I’m gonna side with the worlds leading scientists from multiple different countries, no less

To do otherwise makes you look like an anti science person, which is not a good look. Just saying.

Just as long as you're arguing with those who fall under this accusation and not non-exempt unvaccinated people as a whole, then we can agree.

 

[SomeRandom]

I mentioned vaccinated people are trying to save the world and you didn't like the word save. I clarified it using any other word appropriate with the same point, but it seems you're still stuck on it.

Because it’s a strawman argument. Why would I care about a logical fallacy?

I doubt that's true. If RF was a miniature version of what would go on outside people's heads, they give a damn so much to even wish people dead over it.

I don’t honestly give RF that much credit, if I’m honest lol
Also I work with the public and yeah no people are morons lol
Myself included

What's the benefit of judging people you don't know?

I never made any judgements. Merely made statement about worldviews. People do that all the time. I try not to judge a person by such standards. But if you do something dumb, I probably will judge that.
Not vaccinating (by choice alone) is actually not one of those choices I “judge.” At least not at this moment. But we are in the middle of global pandemic. It does seem a tad silly not to listen to world experts, don’t you think?

What studies do I have to "disprove" this?
Why would I disprove a statement I made. I just thought it was common sense that preventive measures such as vaccination (treatments, whatever) is congruent to one's circumstances. No doctor gives you pills "it works"... there's more involved than that.

Ahh so you have none to back your claim?
So your position is not actually backed by science. Am I correct?
Bad news but Vaccines actually are backed by science. Sorry for the inconvenience

Some people don't take the vaccine because they reject science and some people take the vaccine out of ignorance because of fear.... some people. My point is I don't take sides on this.

I don’t either. I could care less, if I’m honest.

I claimed that being unvaccinated doesn't mean you deny science.

I agree. But the rhetoric I encounter from those advocating not having the current vaccine does line up with well established anti science dogma. That’s just an observation and I’m sorry if that’s inconvenient for you. But that’s just what I’ve experienced

Not sure where else you're picking this up from.

From people decrying the current COVID vaccines, really. I mean, what do you want from me?

This one flew over my head. Too many assumptions here. All I said was:

Shrugs. Outside elementary school, I've never taken vaccines... Flu, measles, etc. I don't see it silly since my situation didn't give me a significant reason to get those vaccines. I'm indifferent.

How does this tell you I feel protected from ailments?
How does this have to do with other approaches in history?

You said you were vaccinated against all these ailments during school. Is that not accurate? Did you not take such vaccines? Why or why not!?
And my response was that basically that we have had all these vaccines for multiple illnesses for over a century by now. Which by the way you had by matter of course without question. If I’m to take your response at face value
But since the COVID one is new you suddenly question it. As if the vaccine from smallpox didn’t have the exact same arguments against it (spoiler warning. It did.) I was merely pointing out the similarities and apparent hypocrisy. You’re willing to accept vaccines that are socially acceptable nowadays but question the latest, even though according to the same exact institutions that made all the others, they all say it’s safe and has undergone the same exact trials as all the other vaccines you had. How curious.
Seems a tad hypocritical to care about that now when you took the others without blinking. They underwent the same trials, the same criticisms. But the latest COVID one is different because???

My think is don't judge a book by its cover and don't generalize.

I’m not. Just observing

Which reminds me that medically exempt can spread the virus too.... so it sounds like you have more issues with people's choices.

Yes they can. Every single vaccine known to mankind has to take that into consideration. Why is that an issue for this latest vaccine all of a sudden?

Shrugs. Unless you're saying you know every person in the world quite literally just because they share a vague opinion, it sounds like the reality you're not sugarcoating is yours. Its assuming your reality (how you see things) is how it is.... excuse the analogy: playing god.

I’m not actually arguing that. You’re strawmanning me

Just as you're arguing with those who fall under this accusation and not non-exempt unvaccinated people as a whole, then we can agree.

We can. If you can stop strawmanning my positions

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I’m sorry. But can you explain to me the point. Because I fear I’m lost

I was responding to your post 82. I thought my clarification would just move things along.

I’m Australian. The literal definition of apolitical in the American climate my friend

It doesn't seem like it.

True. But just because all creationists don’t listen to chemistry doesn’t mean I can’t then criticise their anti scientific stance. Who the hell cares?

It depends on the context of the conversation and topic.

You can say (for example), non-exempt unvaccinated are selfish and not caring of others because of their vaccination status, which is fine as an opinion, but when those same people are in circumstances that don't warrant need for vaccination, it becomes an insult.... in that you're using your opinion to judge them for their selfishness not more so the opinion itself.

Yes. PPE. Or personal protective
equipment used for the last century. You have a problem with this all of a sudden?

Where did you get this from????

All I said is preventive care has a combination of protection measures. Masks "alone" isn't enough.

Agreed. But we use them in an attempt to dampen the forest fire. Not to extinguish it. Do you also oppose traffic lights or seat belts?

You wouldn't use a fire extinguisher to put out a forest fire, would you?

That's the difference I'm making NOT that they don't work.

Why do you guys keep singing the same provaxxer arguments: traffic lights, seat belts, and the idea if a doctor wears a mask so must the rest of us.

Not Necessarily but I remain doubtful because all the arguments I’ve encountered rely specifically on anti vaxx rhetoric. Which itself is inherently anti science.
Sorry if that’s inconvenient

Just don't generalize because, like I said, I'm not political so I don't have anti-vax sentiments and definitely not anti-science at all or I'd be dead.

I choose not to take Panadol. What’s your point? I have paracetamol to fall back on. Though there are also side affects to consider

You choose not to take Panadol doesn't mean you deny that it works (right)?
You're not denying science and facts just because you choose not to take Panadol?

Choosing to not take the vaccine doesn't mean you're denying any scientific fact.

Then don’t follow the mandates. Which are only for those who it is applicable.
Why blame science for being inconvenienced? COVID is a lot more troublesome then what your complaint is. Seriously, you’re coming across as entitled, I hope you know that. I don’t think you are, but it’s like complaining that you’re not allowed in a county because your shoes are wrong. Who cares bro? The harsher affects are literally a reality to the rest of us! It may not affect you but it damn sure affect us!

Maybe you're using me as a pin cushion for how you feel about antivaxxers?

 

[SomeRandom]

I was responding to your post 82. I thought my clarification would just move things along.

Fair enough. I’m still not sure what this is all about though

It doesn't seem like it.

My apologies. I wasn’t directing that at you I hope you know that

It depends on the context of the conversation and topic.

Perhaps

You can say (for example), non-exempt unvaccinated are selfish and not caring of others because of their vaccination status, which is fine as an opinion, but when those same people are in circumstances that don't warrant need for vaccination, it becomes an insult.... in that you're using your opinion to judge them for their selfishness not more so the opinion itself.

I never made such a statement or argument you’re arguing against someone else, mate

Where did you get this from????

From your posts (and honestly other similar thoughts I’ve encountered). Feel free to correct me

All I said is preventive care has a combination of protection measures. Masks "alone" isn't enough.

And I would agree. What’s the issue here?

You wouldn't use a fire extinguisher to put out a forest fire, would you?

I would use a combination of techniques. You?

That's the difference I'm making NOT that they don't work.

So why care?

Why do you guys keep singing the same provaxxer arguments: traffic lights, seat belts, and the idea if a doctor wears a mask so must the rest of us.

Ahh so if it’s repeated it’s wrong? So if someone tells you the earth is round, because it’s repeated that makes it wrong?
Come on now.

Just don't generalize because, like I said, I'm not political so I don't have anti-vax sentiments and definitely not anti-science at all or I'd be dead.

I never claimed you were, did I?
If I did, I sincerely apologise

You choose not to take Panadol doesn't mean you deny that it works (right)?
You're not denying science and facts just because you choose not to take Panadol?

I might value something else. By that I mean I accept that there will be multiple medical options for ailments. At the moment it is vaccines for COVID. Hopefully in the future that treatment will include over the counter pills. I honestly don’t know how that will work in the US, since your system seems rather barbaric to me (sorry, not sorry.) That’s a general statement, nothing to do with COVID

Choosing to not take the vaccine doesn't mean you're denying any scientific fact.

Perhaps. But it usually is. I’m not saying that’s the case with every person just that it is obviously going to be a factor. Sorry, that’s just reality. Look at all the anti vaxx rhetoric coming out for this specific vaccine. Choosing to be nice to that position doesn’t change the reality. Sorry

Maybe you're using me as a pin cushion for how you feel about antivaxxers?

I’m not using you as anything,
Projecting much? I sincerely don’t care what you do with your body. If it doesn’t hurt you or anyone around you, jump off a waterfall if that’s what it takes to gets your rocks off. More power to you. You do you, friend.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You'd have to clarify the straw maning bit since I'm just replying post by post.

Because it’s a strawman argument. Why would I care about a logical fallacy?

It was from your post 82.... hundred posts down the line so it's not an argument just telling you why I commented and the point of it nothing more.

I don’t honestly give RF that much credit, if I’m honest lol
Also I work with the public and yeah no people are morons lol
Myself included

Ok

I never made any judgements. Merely made statement about worldviews. People do that all the time. I try not to judge a person by such standards. But if you do something dumb, I probably will judge that.

Not vaccinating (by choice alone) is actually not one of those choices I “judge.” At least not at this moment. But we are in the middle of global pandemic. It does seem a tad silly not to listen to world experts, don’t you think?

This is a country/country divide, though. Unfortunately, they are throwing everything but the kitchen sink in the US to get people to vaccinate from making products to boost people's pride that they have vaccinated or censoring "misinformation" so readers can see what they want them to see. The only experts I know I first go to is my personal doctors...unless it's a bomb threat or immediate danger.... I'm pretty much indifferent to what experts about my current situation. I listened to one doctor years ago and ended up in the hospital because she didn't address 'my' situation and put me on too many meds. Likewise, another doctor tried to take me off the meds (since it's proven to work, stats say) and I almost had a gran mall seizure where I haven't had one in years.

Add to this that the COVID vaccines are experimental state, side effects, AND people arguing and pushing people to be vaccinated, misinformation and conspiracy theories is totally besides the point.

Ahh so you have none to back your claim?
So your position is not actually backed by science. Am I correct?
Bad news but Vaccines actually are backed by science. Sorry for the inconvenience

Where on earth are you getting these conclusions from???

Why is this wrong: I just thought it was common sense that preventive measures such as vaccination (treatments, whatever) is congruent to one's circumstances.

I don’t either. I could care less, if I’m honest.

You're confusing me here. It honestly don't seem like you don't care from these pasts threads and posts.

I agree. But the rhetoric I encounter from those advocating not having the current vaccine does line up with well established anti science dogma. That’s just an observation and I’m sorry if that’s inconvenient for you. But that’s just what I’ve experienced

Okay. My point is, though, not everyone falls under this anti-science dogma and I notice that many provaxxers can't tell the difference between the two.

From people decrying the current COVID vaccines, really. I mean, what do you want from me?

I'm not political. I don't know.

You said you were vaccinated against all these ailments during school. Is that not accurate? Did you not take such vaccines? Why or why not!?
And my response was that basically that we have had all these vaccines for multiple illnesses for over a century by now. Which by the way you had by matter of course without question. If I’m to take your response at face value

But since the COVID one is new you suddenly question it. As if the vaccine from smallpox didn’t have the exact same arguments against it (spoiler warning. It did.) I was merely pointing out the similarities and apparent hypocrisy. You’re willing to accept vaccines that are socially acceptable nowadays but question the latest, even though according to the same exact institutions that made all the others, they all say it’s safe and has undergone the same exact trials as all the other vaccines you had. How curious.
Seems a tad hypocritical to care about that now when you took the others without blinking. They underwent the same trials, the same criticisms. But the latest COVID one is different because???

1. Its mandatory vaccination for kids (State-by-State: Vaccinations Required for Public School Kindergarten - Vaccines - ProCon.org)

2. I've never had reason to take vaccines and don't think about it.

3. COVID vaccine isn't special in these regards.

4. I never said COVID vaccines were not safe.

Talking to the wrong person

Yes they can. Every single vaccine known to mankind has to take that into consideration. Why is that an issue for this latest vaccine all of a sudden?

I never considered any of them. The only reason why this one is because it's at the center of attention but regardless I wouldn't take it with or without the pandemic. It literally has nothing to do with ani/provaxxer non-sense.

I’m not actually arguing that. You’re strawmanning me

Got to add some clarification.

We can. If you can stop strawmanning my positions

I can't guess what you mean. If you're making an accusation, you have to at least give an example to see what you're talking about so I can "take offense."

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Fair enough. I’m still not sure what this is all about though

My apologies. I wasn’t directing that at you I hope you know that


Perhaps


I never made such a statement or argument you’re arguing against someone else, mate


From your posts (and honestly other similar thoughts I’ve encountered). Feel free to correct me


And I would agree. What’s the issue here?




I would use a combination of techniques. You?

So why care?


Ahh so if it’s repeated it’s wrong? So if someone tells you the earth is round, because it’s repeated that makes it wrong?
Come on now.


I never claimed you were, did I?
If I did, I sincerely apologise


I might value something else. By that I mean I accept that there will be multiple medical options for ailments. At the moment it is vaccines for COVID. Hopefully in the future that treatment will include over the counter pills. I honestly don’t know how that will work in the US, since your system seems rather barbaric to me (sorry, not sorry.) That’s a general statement, nothing to do with COVID


Perhaps. But it usually is. I’m not saying that’s the case with every person just that it is obviously going to be a factor. Sorry, that’s just reality. Look at all the anti vaxx rhetoric coming out for this specific vaccine. Choosing to be nice to that position doesn’t change the reality. Sorry


I’m not using you as anything,
Projecting much? I sincerely don’t care what you do with your body. If it doesn’t hurt you or anyone around you, jump off a waterfall if that’s what it takes to gets your rocks off. More power to you. You do you, friend.

I can't tell if we're talking pass each other, culture/language issues, you're intending to be sarcastic (or ironic?), you don't agree, or you don't see the generalizations you're using to judge other people....

 

[SomeRandom]

I can't tell if we're talking pass each other, culture/language issues, you're intending to be sarcastic (or ironic?), you don't agree, or you don't see the generalizations you're using to judge other people....

You’re supposing I hold all the suppositions of the people who argue for vaccination. I very likely don’t, if I l’m honest. You say you’re against mandatory vaccines and I agree and yet you act as if I’m arguing for such a thing. You claim I’m saying everyone who doesn’t take the vaccination is anti vax even though I have made it explicitly clear I recognise such a phenomenon doesn’t exist and people can just choose not to vaccinate without conspiracy theories. You claim that I or people on my “team” are coercing people into taking vaccines and yet I have made it abundantly clear that I do no favour mandatory vaccines. Merely understand such a measure since it had been implemented in my country for like generations now without anything bad happening to anyone (calling out your use of a slippery slope fallacy, btw.)
So yeah, maybe we both should try to engage instead of whatever it is we’re doing. Just a thought
Also I’m so drunk right now bro haha

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We focus on how many people die but when I asked months ago what about the people living one person said "so what?"

Living as in healthy people who are suffering from jobs and so forth.

"The living" would suffer much more without reasonable measures to get the pandemic under control.

If you think that not being allowed to eat inside restaurants is disruptive, imagine what a few hundred thousand more deaths would do to the economy.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

"The living" would suffer much more without reasonable measures to get the pandemic under control.

If you think that not being allowed to eat inside restaurants is disruptive, imagine what a few hundred thousand more deaths would do to the economy.

People are homeless because of this. Has nothing to do with restaurants.

Once every single person in the world can vaccinate how long do we have to wait till no one dies of COVID to fix the economy?

Covid isn't going to poof from from thin air. Short term solution that ignores the long term problems.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

People are homeless because of this. Has nothing to do with restaurants.

And more people would have ended up homeless if nothing had been done.

If you think shutting down a business for a few months is disruptive, think about what happens when it closes permanently because the owner is dead, say.

Once every single person in the world can vaccinate how long do we have to wait till no one dies of COVID to fix the economy?

Covid isn't going to poof from from thin air. Short term solution that ignores the long term problems.

No, it's short term pain to avoid long term disaster, both in terms of human life and the economy.

But what do you think should be done at this point?

I mean, it would have been better if the US had something like CERB, but at this point, both of our countries have pretty much lifted restrictions on businesses, so I'm not sure what you're asking for.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

And more people would have ended up homeless if nothing had been done.

If you think shutting down a business for a few months is disruptive, think about what happens when it closes permanently because the owner is dead, say.

I didn't mention businesses in my reply to Debate Slayer and you. I'm saying that there should be a balance. We can't control life and death but to "wait" till we reach herd immunity and no one dies of covid is not realistic.

No, it's short term pain to avoid long term disaster, both in terms of human life and the economy.

But what do you think should be done at this point?

I mean, it would have been better if the US had something like CERB, but at this point, both of our countries have pretty much lifted restrictions on businesses, so I'm not sure what you're asking for.

US gave stimulus checks. They didn't last though.

I wasn't asking for anything. I was telling DS that you guys care more for the dying (and not just anyone but COVID victims) but not the living.

How long till we teach herd immunity once every body vaccinated?

Are we going to wait until deaths drop to make some improvement to the economy?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I didn't mention businesses in my reply to Debate Slayer and you. I'm saying that there should be a balance.

A balance between what and what?

We can't control life and death but to "wait" till we reach herd immunity and no one dies of covid is not realistic.

Wait for what? What is it you're waiting for that hasn't happened yet?

US gave stimulus checks. They didn't last though.

I know.

In Canada, people who were unemployed due to COVID-19 got $2,000 per month.

I wasn't asking for anything. I was telling DS that you guys care more for the dying (and not just anyone but COVID victims) but not the living.

I know. And I was pointing out how this is nonsense.

Here were the two choices:

1. Put restrictions in place to limit the pandemic, at least to the point where the hospital system can handle the spikes in severe cases. There's some harm to the economy, some people are left out of work, but many lives are saved.

2. Let the pandemic proceed unchecked. Many people die needlessly, many more get severely ill needlessly, and this triggers economic and job consequences many times worse than option #1.

Only a fool would choose option #2.

How long till we teach herd immunity once every body vaccinated?

Are we going to wait until deaths drop to make some improvement to the economy?

What on Earth are you talking about? What improvement are you looking for?

 

[We Never Know]

A balance between what and what?


Wait for what? What is it you're waiting for that hasn't happened yet?


I know.

In Canada, people who were unemployed due to COVID-19 got $2,000 per month.


I know. And I was pointing out how this is nonsense.

Here were the two choices:

1. Put restrictions in place to limit the pandemic, at least to the point where the hospital system can handle the spikes in severe cases. There's some harn to the economy, some people are left out of work, but many lives are saved.

2. Let the pandemic proceed unchecked. Many people die needlessly, many more get severely ill needlessly, and this triggers economic and job consequences many times worse than option #1.

Only a fool would choose option #2.


What on Earth are you talking about? What improvement are you looking for?

In America people who were unemployed due to COVID-19, even if they made minimum wage, got $600 extra per week on top of their states unemployment.
Oklahoma unemployment max is $539 per week + $600 extra per= $1139 per week.
It was crazy!

When Biden took over it was dropped to $300 extra per week but still crazy.

 

[SkepticThinker]

One cannot even quantify the long term effects of vaccines because long term for now, in this case Covid, is non existant.

I think at least 5 to 10 years needs to go by until any effects are noted.

It's peculiar no one is even addressing vaccine shedding much less any of the other issues experimental medicines cause.

Society is hopelessly short term. An "I want it now" generation, without thinking of long term or having any semblance of foresight on just about anything these days.

If it work now, great. That's all that matters.

History repeats itself.

mRNA vaccines have been in the works for a few decades now:
mRNA vaccines — a new era in vaccinology | Nature Reviews Drug Discovery
COVID-19 mRNA vaccines: How could anything developed this quickly be safe?
Advances in mRNA Vaccines for Infectious Diseases
5 Covid-19 vaccine myths debunked | FIU News - Florida International University

Also, long-term side effects from vaccines typically show up within 6-8 weeks after administration:
Three things to know about the long-term side effects of COVID vaccines
Are there long-term side effects caused by mRNA COVID-19 vaccines? How do we know?
https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/93064


Vaccine "shedding" is irrelevant here, because that only (rarely) occurs when the vaccine contains a weakened version of the virus, which the mRNA vaccine does not contain.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I mentioned vaccinated people are trying to save the world and you didn't like the word save. I clarified it using any other word appropriate with the same point, but it seems you're still stuck on it.



I doubt that's true. If RF was a miniature version of what would go on outside people's heads, they give a damn so much to even wish people dead over it.

What's the benefit of judging people you don't know?



What studies do I have to "disprove" this?
Why would I disprove a statement I made. I just thought it was common sense that preventive measures such as vaccination (treatments, whatever) is congruent to one's circumstances. No doctor gives you pills "it works"... there's more involved than that.

Some people don't take the vaccine because they reject science and some people take the vaccine out of ignorance because of fear.... some people. My point is I don't take sides on this.

I claimed that being unvaccinated doesn't mean you deny science.

Not sure where else you're picking this up from.



This one flew over my head. Too many assumptions here. All I said was:

Shrugs. Outside elementary school, I've never taken vaccines... Flu, measles, etc. I don't see it silly since my situation didn't give me a significant reason to get those vaccines. I'm indifferent.

How does this tell you I feel protected from ailments?
How does this have to do with other approaches in history?



My thing is don't judge a book by its cover and don't generalize.

Which reminds me that medically exempt can spread the virus too.... so it sounds like you have more issues with people's choices.



Shrugs. Unless you're saying you know every person in the world quite literally just because they share a vague opinion, it sounds like the reality you're not sugarcoating is yours. Its assuming your reality (how you see things) is how it is.... excuse the analogy: playing god.



Just as long as you're arguing with those who fall under this accusation and not non-exempt unvaccinated people as a whole, then we can agree.

It's not a choice. Those people literally have no choice. They can't get it.
If the rest of us get vaccinated, it will help these people in the long run.