Sex Work Is Legitimate, But Needs Regulation

[Meow Mix]

Not gonna happen as long as prostitution exists in any form.
And strip clubs fuel the industry.

Imagine if law enforcement were free to stop worrying about voluntary sex workers and focused on illegal rings of involuntary ones?

Besides, if you're admitting that some problems can't be stamped out, then why not alleviate the suffering of sex workers by giving them access to basic things like being able to call the police without fear and having a safe place to work?

There was no prostitution at either of the clubs I worked at.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Imagine if law enforcement were free to stop worrying about voluntary sex workers and focused on illegal rings of involuntary ones?

Besides, if you're admitting that some problems can't be stamped out, then why not alleviate the suffering of sex workers by giving them access to basic things like being able to call the police without fear and having a safe place to work?

There was no prostitution at either of the clubs I worked at.

Because some things should never be legitimized. We should not condone an institution that ruins so many lives.
Same reason we should not legalize heroin.

 

[Meow Mix]

Because some things should never be legitimized. We should not condone an institution that ruins so many lives.
Same reason we should not legalize heroin.

Can't you see that it ruins so many lives because it is currently dehumanized by society? Of course it's going to ruin lives when sex workers have no protection from violence, no safe place to work, etc. It's a self-exacerbating problem where they're forced into these conditions and then people get to point and say "see, I told you so," when those very same people are partially to blame for the conditions because of their dehumanization and judgment!

 

[Shakeel]

This isn't true. In some cultures throughout history, prostitutes could reach very high social status and even hold political power. There were even religious forms of prostitution ("Sacred Prostitution"), and also consider for instance Greek-style oracles.

I'm referring to present time, but you need to know the difference between nice and respectful. Just because men stare and admire a woman for her beauty, doesn't mean they respect her. They also give extra compliments regarding other things about her simply because she's pretty to look at. A lot of women confuse this sexual desire, and what it makes men do, as respect.

The point is that whether someone is dehumanized or not has more to do with the people around them

I disagreed.

A class of person can be currently dehumanized by a culture and someone can argue that the culture should not do that (as I am doing here).

Sure, but dehumanising and attacking and criticising are all different things.

So for instance, a custodian is not often respected by my society, and I think it's gross that my society doesn't respect them (I would also argue that society needs to respect custodians, for instance)

I don't know what you're talking about.

But are we saying that by choosing to be a custodian, they have dehumanized themselves?

You're using the word dehumanize wrong. I hope it's an innocent mistake and not an attempt to manipulate the discussion.

While I can wear yoga pants and a sleep tank if I'm just running to a gas station or something in my culture and nobody thinks twice about it

Would you wear those to a five star restaurant or would you put on "something more appropriate"?

If you dressed differently, you'd understand the different levels of respect a woman can have from men. Again, don't confuse the admiration of your figure with respect.

 

[Shakeel]

Imagine if law enforcement were free to stop worrying about voluntary sex workers and focused on illegal rings of involuntary one

Which pretty much happens when you make it illegal.

Besides, if you're admitting that some problems can't be stamped out, then why not alleviate the suffering of sex workers by giving them access to basic things like being able to call the police without fear and having a safe place to work?

The argument is that they should be condemned as criminals and you ask to give them a safe "work" place? They can call the police, but they have to own up to their mistakes - just like that bank robber.

Of course it's going to ruin lives when sex workers have no protection from violence, no safe place to work, etc

I assume etc includes ruined marriages, ruined women and a ruined nation.

 

[Meow Mix]

I'm referring to present time, but you need to know the difference between nice and respectful. Just because men stare and admire a woman for her beauty, doesn't mean they respect her. They also give extra compliments regarding other things about her simply because she's pretty to look at. A lot of women confuse this sexual desire, and what it makes men do, as respect.

I'm aware of this, I experience occasions where I know I'm being treated differently sheerly because of the way I look.

Sure, but dehumanising and attacking and criticising are all different things.

I don't know what you're talking about.

You're using the word dehumanize wrong. I hope it's an innocent mistake and not an attempt to manipulate the discussion.

I assure you I have good faith intentions, so perhaps we are using the word differently. When I say dehumanize as a verb, I mean that a person is othering someone else: they are now "less than," they are disrespected for being different because of some quality not shared by the dehumanizer. How are you using it?

Regarding the custodian example: people in my society are not often kind or respectful to those that they perceive as working menial jobs. So they dehumanize and ridicule custodians sometimes (of course not everyone, but I just tried to find an example of someone that deserves respect, but who might be treated poorly by inconsiderate people in society).

Would you wear those to a five star restaurant or would you put on "something more appropriate"?

If you dressed differently, you'd understand the different levels of respect a woman can have from men. Again, don't confuse the admiration of your figure with respect.

I would wear something more appropriate to a five-star restaurant. But my point is that different societies look down on people for different things, in many respects it's arbitrary. When it hurts people, the society should learn to change that.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Who would have thought a thread on sex work would run at least 17 pages?

Damn near anyone who's been around RF.​

Imagine if we had something like ...

Sex work involving circumcised males falsifies evolution while proving Jesus to be a Mithra copycat!​

 

[Meow Mix]

Who would have thought a thread on sex work would run at least 17 pages?

Damn near anyone who's been around RF.​

Imagine if we had something like ...

Sex work involving circumcised males falsifies evolution while proving Jesus to be a Mithra copycat!​

Oh no, that would be hundreds of pages in a day! ^.^

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm human, not an animal.

Humans are another animal, we do belong to the Animal Kingdom, and meet the definitions and characteristics such as young that are fed milk from mammary glands, fur and hair, lower jaw hinged to the shell, neocortex of the brain, and three middle ear bones.

What good is there in having children who become open homosexuals or prostitutes or porn stars?

What is wrong with those things? If anything, it's better for a society to be secure, stable, and healthy enough that it knows it isn't threatened by things that violate the morals of uptight groups who can't mind their own business. It would be great if everyone got along enough, without the moral judgements, that we actually cared for one another and helped people in need rather than demonizing them and driving them far away from help.

 

[Shakeel]

I assure you I have good faith intentions, so perhaps we are using the word differently. When I say dehumanize as a verb, I mean that a person is othering someone else: they are now "less than," they are disrespected for being different because of some quality not shared by the dehumanizer. How are you using it?

Something that tries to decrease a person's humanity, dignity or individuality.

Regarding the custodian example: people in my society are not often kind or respectful to those that they perceive as working menial job

You're around snobs?

that different societies look down on people for different things, in many respects it's arbitrary. When it hurts people, the society should learn to change that.

Sure, but your idea of it hurting people is that it hurts individuals. You disregard the society. That's an imbalance that will never lead to a prosperous society.

Humans are another animal, we do belong to the Animal Kingdom, and meet the definitions and characteristics such as young that are fed milk from mammary glands, fur and hair, lower jaw hinged to the shell, neocortex of the brain, and three middle ear bones.

Are you really thinking you're bringing something new to the table here?

I'm still human. You can call yourself whatever you want. I don't mind.

What is wrong with those things?

That they're inappropriate, perverted, unhealthy and spread other kinds of problems in the society.

If anything, it's better for a society to be secure, stable, and healthy enough that it knows it isn't threatened by things that violate the morals of uptight groups who can't mind their own business

You said healthy enough - is that you admitting your society can't be entirely healthy? Maybe you didn't see my links regarding the mental health of prostitutes.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Can't you see that it ruins so many lives because it is currently dehumanized by society? Of course it's going to ruin lives when sex workers have no protection from violence, no safe place to work, etc. It's a self-exacerbating problem where they're forced into these conditions and then people get to point and say "see, I told you so," when those very same people are partially to blame for the conditions because of their dehumanization and judgment!

No, it's inherently dehumanizing to sell your body.
Doesn't matter if it's in a penthouse or on the street. Not all prostitutes are forced to work in poor conditions. It's the job that's dehumanizing, no matter what.

 

[Meow Mix]

Something that tries to decrease a person's humanity, dignity or individuality.

I think that sounds similar to how I was using it, so I'm not sure what led you to say I might be using it incorrectly. If I communicated something poorly, just let me know and I can try to rephrase it.

You're around snobs?

Don't all of our societies have these? It's not a nice quality for sure.

Sure, but your idea of it hurting people is that it hurts individuals. You disregard the society. That's an imbalance that will never lead to a prosperous society.

There needs to be a balance between individualism and collectivism for a prosperous society with happy and productive people. Because individuals make choices (even in a collectivist society), anything can become bad for that society if they make poor choices: but that is why I said not only to legalize, but to regulate.

 

[Meow Mix]

No, it's inherently dehumanizing to sell your body.
Doesn't matter if it's in a penthouse or on the street. Not all prostitutes are forced to work in poor conditions. It's the job that's dehumanizing, no matter what.

You think it's dehumanizing. That makes you the dehumanizer. Not everyone shares that opinion. I wasn't dehumanized when I danced, I posted examples in the thread of women in porn that weren't dehumanized when they entered porn. Different things for different people.

It's this attitude that causes the conditions that lead to marginalization.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You think it's dehumanizing. That makes you the dehumanizer. Not everyone shares that opinion. I wasn't dehumanized when I danced, I posted examples in the thread of women in porn that weren't dehumanized when they entered porn. Different things for different people.

It's this attitude that causes the conditions that lead to marginalization.

You know, not everyone is thinking of stripping when they post. Shaking your *** on the stage is different from selling your *** on the street (or BackPage, Craigslist (in the past, for Americans), Grindr, etc.). When you say "sex worker", people think of prostitution.

 

[Meow Mix]

You know, not everyone is thinking of stripping when they post. Shaking your *** on the stage is different from selling your *** on the street (or BackPage, Craigslist (in the past, for Americans), Grindr, etc.). When you say "sex worker", people think of prostitution.

Some in this very post have considered it quantitatively different, not qualitatively different; and it’s useful to have a readily available example (my experiences). I get that anecdotes don’t make the day, but they do make points.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, it's inherently dehumanizing to sell your body.
Doesn't matter if it's in a penthouse or on the street. Not all prostitutes are forced to work in poor conditions. It's the job that's dehumanizing, no matter what.

"Dehumanizing" is merely a personal opinion.
But if one wants to dehumanize oneself, why should we
have the heavy hand of government persecute them for it?
I find religions dehumanizing & destructive of rational thought,
but many afflicted people manage to live productive lives.
So I wouldn't criminalize it. Religion, prostitution, advocating
communism....such things are unsavory, but if no one is
harmed, it should be OK.

 

[Kooky]

If a person works as a postitute they are responsible for not keeping themselves safe.

No, they are not responsible for being abused, harmed and oppressed.
Only the people who abuse, harm and oppress them are.

 

[Kooky]

Not gonna happen as long as prostitution exists in any form.
And strip clubs fuel the industry.

Do you believe that strip clubs spontaneously come into being by divine or infernal command, or do you believe that they are businesses catering to an existing demand among a potential customer base?

 

[Meow Mix]

Do you believe that strip clubs spontaneously come into being by divine or infernal command, or do you believe that they are businesses catering to an existing demand among a potential customer base?

Insert Bender meme ("I'll start my own religion, with blackjack and hookers!")

 

[Revoltingest]

Insert Bender meme ("I'll start my own religion, with blackjack and hookers!")