Mandatory Vaccinations?

[McBell]

I think until the last few years its had a good, trusted reputation, maybe now its back again.

I suspect that the vast majority gave nay a thought about the FDA until this vaccine.
Sure they heard of the FDA.
They may even remember a couple of stories they seen or heard in the news that mentioned something about the FDA
But overall, they gave not much if any thought about the FDA
Even now I strongly suspect that the vast majority have no idea that FDA is short for Food and Drug Administration, let alone what all they do.

So it is my opinion that the few who are now looking more into the FDA and what they do, have actually just started thinking about how much trust the FDA should have.

 

[pearl]

BTW, as a personal note, the Pfizer vaccine here in the States is made in Portage, Michigan, which is a suburb of Kalamazoo where I had attended Western Michigan University as an undergrad.

The Moderna vaccine is made here in Massachusetts. There was, until a few weeks ago, a vaccination site, Pfizer, a couple of blocks from the house, we could have walked up. Back when you had to be over 65, you would think we would have no problem, but week after week couldn't get an appointment, finally settled for Walgreen's and got one the same day we called, so we settled for the J&J. I don't think that is even being used anymore.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I honestly can't smile that so many people got fired or resigned because they didn't want to get the vaccine. The whole thing is terrible. Who can smile at such a thing of people loosing their jobs

It's not anything to smile about.

It's certainly important that a hospital protect patient safety from reckless staff. However, the idea that a nurse - someone who ought to be medically savvy - would end up as an anti-vaxxer points to some major problems with the current system that really do need to be addressed.

 

[pearl]

So it is my opinion that the few who are now looking more into the FDA and what they do, have actually just started thinking about how much trust the FDA should have.

The misrepresentations became a stunning debacle for the FDA, shaking its professional staff to the core and undermining its credibility as it approaches one of the most important and fraught decisions in its history amid a divisive presidential election — deciding when a covid-19 vaccine is safe and effective. Yet again, the president had harnessed the machinery of government to advance his political agenda — with potentially corrosive effects on public trust in government scientists’ handling of the pandemic.
Inside Trump’s pressure campaign on federal scientists over a covid-19 treatment (msn.com)

 

[Revoltingest]

You are probably right, unfortunately.

Talking with anti-vaxers, I've found that if I
defeat one reason, they just cite another.
The fundamental reasons aren't subject
to reason....
- Opposition to government's orders
- Fearlessness of Covid
- Associating vaccinations with Democrats

 

[Martin]

Talking with anti-vaxers, I've found that if I
defeat one reason, they just cite another.
The fundamental reasons aren't subject
to reason....
- Opposition to government's orders
- Fearlessness of Covid
- Associating vaccinations with Democrats

Anti-vaxers are a bunch of attention-seeking narcissists. These deviant miscreants should be transported to another colony, maybe Australia.

 

[McBell]

Anti-vaxers are a bunch of attention-seeking narcissists. These deviant miscreants should be transported to another colony, maybe Australia.

Um...
what did Australia do to deserve that?

 

[Revoltingest]

Anti-vaxers are a bunch of attention-seeking narcissists. These deviant miscreants should be transported to another colony, maybe Australia.

I don't see attention seeking at all in those I've spoken with.

 

[ecco]

"During today’s meeting, members of a CDC advisory committee acknowledged 1,200 cases of heart inflammation in 16- to 24-year-olds, and said mRNA COVID vaccines should carry a warning statement — but physicians and other public commenters accused the CDC of exaggerating the risk to young people of COVID, and minimizing the risk of the vaccines."

Which physicians? What is their area of expertise?
Which public commentators? The ones on OANN?

It matters.


And, again, what is the content of the warning statement? Is it that vaccines shouldn't be given to 16- to 24-year-olds?

I figure 1,200 cases of heart inflammation out of (Edited) **32 million** mRNA fully C.O.V.I.D.-19 vaccinated persons, who are ages 16 through age 24, means there could be up to a nearly (Edited) **1 in 30,000 chance** for each person in this age group to get heart inflammation caused by his/her mRNA C.O.V.I.D.-19 vaccination..

1. US COVID death rate (600,000/300,000,000) = 0.002
2. US COVID case rate (33,600,000/300,000,000) = 0.112
3. Heart inflammation rate (1200/32,000,000) = 0.0000375

1. There is no getting better from #1
2. There are long term effects for many people in #2
3. In all cases so far the inflammation has been mild and goes away on its own

What's is the point you are trying to make?

 

[ecco]

I'd hate to be the one to say I told you so if they can admit one day a vaccine Did affect a person and he died without underplaying it.

Let's say a year from now a vaccinated person's heart explodes from the vaccine and he dies. Let's say a year from now 100 vaccinated people's hearts explode from the vaccine and they die.

So what? In the meantime, there are (just in the US) 200,000,000 vaccinated people who did not die.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's not anything to smile about.

It's certainly important that a hospital protect patient safety from reckless staff. However, the idea that a nurse - someone who ought to be medically savvy - would end up as an anti-vaxxer points to some major problems with the current system that really do need to be addressed.

I find it weird some nurses in general aren't taking the vaccine. While some can be confrontational about it, I'd think the ones who aren't know something. Being a professional it would be wrong to doubt their medical intelligence all of the sudden because they Choose not to vaccinated.

That gives me a sign that confirmation bias is at play. Seeing the side and being with the majority who sides with ones views.

I wonder if a provaxxer regretted it because of new info or they catch COVID what would they do.

 

[ecco]

I don't.
Those who are using the EAU status as an excuse are merely jumping on it as an excuse to not vaccinated.
Even after the vaccine gets FDA approval, they will not get vaccinated and will have another excuse to not get the vaccine.

Some of those people are posting in this very thread.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I find it weird some nurses in general aren't taking the vaccine. While some can be confrontational about it, I'd think the ones who aren't know something. Being a professional it would be wrong to doubt their medical intelligence all of the sudden because they Choose not to vaccinated.

My late aunt was a nurse. I think I was about 6 or 7 when I asked her "if you're a nurse, why do you smoke?"

She didn't have an answer.

Should I assume that, simply because she was a nurse, the health risks of smoking aren't as I had been taught?

 

[Revoltingest]

I find it weird some nurses in general aren't taking the vaccine. While some can be confrontational about it, I'd think the ones who aren't know something. Being a professional it would be wrong to doubt their medical intelligence all of the sudden because they Choose not to vaccinated.

That gives me a sign that confirmation bias is at play. Seeing the side and being with the majority who sides with ones views.

I wonder if a provaxxer regretted it because of new info or they catch COVID what would they do.

Nurses are no more knowledgeable about vaccine
epidemiology than your average auto mechanic.
Neither is trained in it. This is somewhat true even
for physicians.
A friend's gal pal is a nurse, who claims that Covid
was created by Satan, & can only be cured by prayer.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

My late aunt was a nurse. I think I was about 6 or 7 when I asked her "if you're a nurse, why do you smoke?"

She didn't have an answer.

Should I assume that, simply because she was a nurse, the health risks of smoking aren't as I had been taught?

But that's a fallacy. There are nurses that probably didn't take the vaccine for valid intelligent reasons. One person doesn't justify all are wrong or ignorant.

Hypothetical. If a nurse decided not to use a patch because she is not smoking to put people in danger, the only way she would is if she were around those who smoke next to her...second hand smoke. Then, if she becomes addicted and decides not to wear the patch And smoke around others, she's putting people in danger. Not wearing the patch in itself just in case does nothing.

I can see A risk but I'd have to know the level of risk to know if the hospital was in it's right or not. I see more involved than just being unvaccinated.

Since no one knows whose in danger they can only assume. Assumptions aren't facts. Usually more factors are involved in determine danger.

I don't know. Change of policy is fine. Just more evidence of putting people in danger would be needed, in my opinion. But, like my bank says, they can't pick and choose. They have to deny patriants entry (when the mask debate was at its peak)

Maybe that's the same. I can't change it, but I don't see why I should blame the nurses though. That's the difference.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Let's say a year from now a vaccinated person's heart explodes from the vaccine and he dies. Let's say a year from now 100 vaccinated people's hearts explode from the vaccine and they die.

So what? In the meantime, there are (just in the US) 200,000,000 vaccinated people who did not die.

I'd say the CDC would take that seriously. They did with the J&J. That's something I'd take into consideration.

It's a fallacy. "I'm not part of that minority so I'll dismiss it cause the majority always speaks the truth."

It's rare but something like this I'd definitely be skeptical. We get second opinions about meds with more odds on our side, but just jump over board with a non FDC approved vaccine.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Nurses are no more knowledgeable about vaccine
epidemiology than your average auto mechanic.
Neither is trained in it. This is somewhat true even
for physicians.
A friend's gal pal is a nurse, who claims that Covid
was created by Satan, & can only be cured by prayer.

Satan? Sheesh. I haven't heard that before.

Poole I guess can only go by what they read and hear from the experts. Some people are questioning the CDC. Maybe some meduics can make better decisions than layman.

 

[metis]

The Moderna vaccine is made here in Massachusetts. There was, until a few weeks ago, a vaccination site, Pfizer, a couple of blocks from the house, we could have walked up. Back when you had to be over 65, you would think we would have no problem, but week after week couldn't get an appointment, finally settled for Walgreen's and got one the same day we called, so we settled for the J&J. I don't think that is even being used anymore.

We got our first shot at Walgreens as a fill-in but had to get our second one at city hall where we live.

At least I'm happy you got at least the J&J, and there's talk about allowing people like in your situation to get a Moderna or Pfizer maybe in the fall. It wouldn't surprise me if they had to run tests on that combo first, though.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Nurses are no more knowledgeable about vaccine
epidemiology than your average auto mechanic.
Neither is trained in it. This is somewhat true even
for physicians.
A friend's gal pal is a nurse, who claims that Covid
was created by Satan, & can only be cured by prayer.

Here is what I mean by looking at other factors when deciding to vaccinate, level of risk, and which vaccination to take. I can't remember who I mention this to, but I've repeated it so must have been all.

COVID-19 Vaccine FAQs for Healthcare Professionals | CDC

"Level of COVID-19 community transmission
Patient’s personal risk of contracting COVID-19
Risks of COVID-19 to the patient and potential risks to the fetus
Known and potential benefits of vaccination
Vaccine effectiveness
Vaccine side effects
Limited but growing evidence about the safety of COVID-19 vaccination during pregnancy"

This is talking about pregnant women. I know risks are said to be rare-for now-but if they take factors into consideration why provaxxers debate when I say it even though that's a medically ethical thing to do regardless who says it?

 

[metis]

Here is what I mean by looking at other factors when deciding to vaccinate, level of risk, and which vaccination to take. I can't remember who I mention this to, but I've repeated it so must have been all.

COVID-19 Vaccine FAQs for Healthcare Professionals | CDC

"Level of COVID-19 community transmission
Patient’s personal risk of contracting COVID-19
Risks of COVID-19 to the patient and potential risks to the fetus
Known and potential benefits of vaccination
Vaccine effectiveness
Vaccine side effects
Limited but growing evidence about the safety of COVID-19 vaccination during pregnancy"

This is talking about pregnant women. I know risks are said to be rare-for now-but if they take factors into consideration why provaxxers debate when I say it even though that's a medically ethical thing to do regardless who says it?

The question comes to mind when was that CDC FAQ released? Since there now have been multiple millions of shots issue worldwide, we generally know the answer to many of those questions.

Also, it is pretty much common knowledge that no medication or vaccine is free from any side effects, thus the question one should ask is whether the side effects outweigh the benefits, and the clear answer we clearly see is no.

One of my sister's-in-law, who works in a hospital, told me she wanted to wait, came down with the virus less than a week later, and then told us on Fb that she made a huge mistake.

BTW, do you know what most people with covid die from?

Answer: suffocation. IOW, it's a slow and excruciating death.

Please, for your sake and the sake of others, get the vaccine.