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See post #4The Lord Jesus is the ONLY one resurrected. no one else has a NEW BODY?
PICJAG
101G
I did, none qualify as it stands today.See post #4
That's fair enough, I suppose! Seems like a lot of trouble to go through just making something work that seems rather impossible, though.
Mat 27:51 Behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from the top to the bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split.
Mat 27:52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the holy ones who had fallen asleep were raised;
Mat 27:53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection, they entered into the holy city and appeared to many.
What is this describing...?
V 51, at Jesus' death, the curtain between the Holy (picturing the place where and the Most Holy compartments of the temple (picturing heaven and God's presence) was torn in two from top to bottom, symbolically indicating that the way into heaven was now open for Jesus as "firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death" to return to his Father as the very first of those who would die the same death and receive the same resurrection as he did (1 Peter 3:18)...others would follow in due time, when Jesus returned to take these ones "home" to be with him.
I believe V52 is describing an earthquake which tossed the "bodies of the holy ones" out of their graves, as this is not uncommon in earthquake prone places.
It is not describing a resurrection because none of the "holy ones" was resurrected before Jesus. These it says were "raised" when Jesus died. He was not resurrected for three days and stayed on earth for 40 days afterwards.
V 53 is describing people coming out of the graveyard, seeing this occur, and reporting it in Jerusalem. It does not mesh with other scripture if it is describing something as monumental as the resurrection of the holy ones. And if it was as some assume...why did Matthew alone mention it as something in passing?
I would say that the split veil is symbolic of our access to the Father through Jesus is prayer. There seem to be scriptures that agree with this. I find none that speak only of a certain class of Christians having access at the resurrection, that seems to be reading into it what is not there, and with no evidence in scripture, only in the JW doctrines. Here are a couple of verses.
Hebrews 10:19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.
It doesn't say that the bodies were alive. It says that they were raised, but not raised to life. And no one was resurrected after Jesus to any kind of earthly life.As we see below the bodies were raised to life after the resurrection and came out of the tombs after the resurrection. It would not have been a big number and those who said they saw them may not have been believed. And not doubt it would not have been associated with the resurrection of Jesus at that point.
I don't think that they remained in a bodily form however, the real resurrection happens when Jesus returns.
I think that when Jesus rose He did take with Him a crowd of those why had been waiting in Sheol/Hades however and released them from that prison and they would end up maybe in heaven just as the souls under the altar we read about in Revelations.
Yes...he breathed his last. He was put to death in the flesh and raised as a spirit....the word "spirit" has more than one meaning.Matt 27:50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.
You are going to have to explain what it is you are talking about.I did, none qualify as it stands today.
try aghaun.
PICJAG
101G
a restored life, (naturally), is not the same as a resurrected life. a resurrected life have no NATURAL flesh and bone, nor blood. it is changed, and it "NEVER DIE". and as for those OT accounts, (including the gospel), no one is resurrected before Christ.You are going to have to explain what it is you are talking about.
No idea what you are talking about.a restored life, (naturally), is not the same as a resurrected life. a resurrected life have no NATURAL flesh and bone, nor blood. it is changed, and it "NEVER DIE". and as for those OT accounts, (including the gospel), no one is resurrected before Christ.
PICJAG
101G
no problem,No idea what you are talking about.
It appears you are using a Humpty Dumpty version of the word "resurrected".
But I am unable to determine what it is you mean.
My faith is combined with my reasoning and I think I am being intellectually honest to not believe all that
many scholars say when they are writing things against the Bible. They have their own faith and write accordingly, they are not lacking bias.
Nevertheless God could make a day longer than normal. Once you start losing your faith in the God who can do that then I guess all these questions about how God could have done it without a disaster tend to make your faith go even further. Then you start believing all the negative press about the truth of the Bible in other areas too. Pretty soon you decide not to go on and that it is easier to not believe.
https://believersweb.org/the-long-day-of-joshua/I don't know about the Toltec myth but there are others. Even recently it seems that astronomers thought they worked out that we have lost a day somewhere. I wondered how they could possibly work that out and found out in the site I will link. There was a report that the whole thing was a hoax but it seems one of the astronomers say that the hoax report was the hoax. But of course I do not expect a non believer to even consider these things to possibly be true. It seems Christians readily believed that the astronomer's report was a hoax. So much BS going around that we readily dismiss things that may be true, esp if they are a bit far fetched.
The Long Day of Joshua | The Believers Web
Yah, no doubt there are better explanations. It would be no trouble for God however.
In the site I posted there is one about an asteroid crashing into the earth and slowing down the mantle etc while the core continued to rotate,,,,,,,,,,sounds like that would cause disasters however. It also says that Newton showed that the rotation could be slowed without much of a problem for earth and it's people.
Interesting stuff, but who is going to believe these things. They are as bad as conspiracy theories. But no I do not discount all conspiracy theories, some of them are probably true. But there are so many around that we just dismiss them all in the interests of Occam's Razor I guess.
The stopping of the sun from setting for a day in Joshua has been milling around in my head, as things do, and I realised that slowing the rotation of the earth down over an hour or so from 1000 mph to say 0 mph would mean just slowing it down by 15 mph per minute. I don't think that would make anything fall over or alter things too much, especially if it was sped up again after a short time; less than a day.
So the problem is not what the effects might be on the earth and people etc.
why is it so hard to understand that an earthquake can be violent enough to kick dead body's out of the grave's? not likely the first time or the last .
It's true that everyone has their bias, and ultimately we find things convincing or not according to our epistemological toolset we work with; that relies on bias. That said, no one should believe anything experts (or scholars) say that don't bring good evidence to back their claims. Skepticism is a beautiful thing, and I find it works best when used even against people you like; I've learned a thing or two by doing this.
The person who wrote the article you provided seeks to mislead.
In fact, many of the examples provided come from vastly different times all over, and they just don't add up; it comes across as a dishonest attempt to make things fit into what he's trying to sell.
You know... I'm not sure. To me, it seems like even slowing down to a stop at all would be devastating to the workings of the world. Ocean currents, weather patterns, and even the way that the crust sits on earth's mantle might be disrupted.
Then again, my interest lies more in history and biology, so I really have no idea!
How can you say that it is "symbolic of access to the father in prayer"......God's servants have always had access to him in prayer......? Jesus did not become the "mediator between God and man" after his death....he has always had that role as the Logos....the one who speaks for God to us, and who delivers our prayers to God. Sin is the barrier between God and man.....Jesus has always bridged that gap for God's servants.
There are two groups of Christians who attribute salvation to God....those chosen to be "kings and priests" and those who will be their earthly subjects. (Revelation 20:6; Revelation 21:2-4) Who are these kings going to rule over and for whom do they perform their priestly duties? There are no sinners in heaven.
The resurrection that Jesus performs is to life back here on earth. He calls all the dead from their graves because they are all still in them. (John 5:28-29) The ones with the "heavenly calling" are "raised first" according to both the apostles John and Paul. They are "the firstfruits bought from among mankind".....if there are "firstfruits"...others are to follow, but these will not go to heaven. Others from among mankind will enjoy their rulership in a "new earth".
Revelation 14:1-5 states....
"Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads . . . .no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth. 4 These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, 5 and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish."
What is hard to understand about that?
All of the first Christians had the "heavenly calling"....the Greek scriptures were written for them and about them. They all looked forward to ruling in heaven with Jesus.
To his anointed ones.....the "one spirit" is the unity they share.
Since when is "I don't think" a reason to believe anything? Shouldn't it be what scripture says backed up by other scripture, not just by "I think" or "I don't think". Why do you think Christendom is fractured into so many disunited sects? Every one of them started with someone saying...."I think".
"I think"?...again? Seriously, does it matter what you think.....who are you to tell anyone what to believe? If you want to read scripture and put your own spin on things, that is entirely up to you, but unless you have a brotherhood, you are simply another dissenting voice, going off on your own tangent.
Yes...he breathed his last. He was put to death in the flesh and raised as a spirit....the word "spirit" has more than one meaning.
are you deigning there was a earthquake ?That is not the issue for me, it is that the scripture is translated much differently in most Bibles.
are you deigning there was a earthquake ?