Political Neutrality Please! (I mean my brothers and sisters)

[Samael_Khan]

Oh wow. That’s interesting. I knew the Byzantine Empire was important. But I either forgot what I learnt or it was just through games like Assassins Creed lol

Yeah, they were pretty important. They actually retained a lot of Greek Literature. They are partially the reason why the Muslims had their golden age, because the Byzantines translated preserved Greek texts for them after they were conquered by the muslims. The muslim nations didn't know Greek at the time, so someone had to help them through it.

Also, during the first Western crusade, the first march was the "peasants crusade" lead by Peter the Hermit, and because they weren't the brightest tools in the shed, they didn't realise that they would run out of food or how extensive the journey was. The Byzantines tried to help them but then they ended up raiding the city and raping women and such things. So the West and East have been at odds with each other on occasion. There wasn't a cohesive Christianity.

I agree. It can be a rather potent tool

Very much so.

 

[Heyo]

Also, during the first Western crusade, the first march was the "peasants crusade" lead by Peter the Hermit, and because they weren't the brightest tools in the shed, they didn't realise that they would run out of food or how extensive the journey was. The Byzantines tried to help them but then they ended up raiding the city and raping women and such things.

You got that mixed up. The first crusade was aided by Byzantines and resulted in conquering Jerusalem (and other cities on the way that were given to Byzantium). It was the fourth crusade that ended up raiding Byzantium.

 

[Clara Tea]

Christianity better be neutral on politics.


Jesus wasn’t a politician either, I think.

Christians should focus on evangelizing and doing social work (or both), as I see it. Politics, as I see, is a distraction. Christians should focus of what they are good at.


Especially after Donald Trump turned out to have a dubious stance on democracy, Christians should learn from that and stop openly favoring one party only.

In Germany, churches have supported Hitler in many cases and Christians should learn their lessons from it.

While it is true that politics could make changes to help the Christian causes, there is a separation between church and state. Abortion, Gay rights (recently the idea that men under 18 are allowed to dress like girls and enter girl's restrooms), and other issues seem important enough to change.

Christians supporting Hitler proves that religion and politics sometimes are strange bedfellows, often working contrary to each other's goals.

Wedge issues (issues designed to win political elections), such as ending abortion, are often used by politicians, but seldom worked on once they are elected. If they ever did fix a wedge issue, what would they use to get elected next time? Were they ever interested in wedge issues in the first place?

The Religious Right elected W. Bush and ended up with wars and a torture camp. Homeless were abandoned, and God's environment was destroyed. Many of the wildfires of the pacific coast are attributed to lax grooming of weeds (prior to W. Bush's term, they were trimmed to prevent fires). Global Warming (which could kill all life on the planet) is currently being ignored. W. Bush's lawyers altered government's environmental reports so that rich oil magnates could prosper at the expense of the environment.

 

[1213]

Christianity better be neutral on politics.

Jesus wasn’t a politician either, I think....

He was killed by Romans and the reason was that he is the King of Jews. I think it was political murder.

I think Christianity represents freedom and truth and so is automatically always on the side of those who do so also. And that is why totalitarian and fascistic people are then automatically against Christianity always.

 

[thomas t]

But if you think it's bad, why aren't you asking for Christians to behave better?

I did, see above. I was hated for it.

EDIT. removed the link, I'm not entitled to post links like that

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Discrimination Against Gays - What Would You Base That On?
I did, see above. I was hated for it.

So this is your fallback position?

IOW, you couldn't get Christians to commit to behaving decently, so maybe getting them to limit the things they impact might work as a harm reduction strategy?

If so, then that's probably fair.

 

[thomas t]

Why don't you just speak for yourself, and let others act according to their lives? Because: "Political Neutrality Please! (I mean my brothers and sisters)" seems like you're trying to boss people around as if you're some kind leader of the Christian's.

Are you an authority figure in Christianity..?

No, I'm not bossing around.
I don't want my brothers to hinder true evangelization from working.
I think there are many good workers around that invite people to accept the Gospel of Jesus' saving grace.
Then there are the other dudes that can't help but support politicians that don't value democracy high.
The latter ones put obstacles in the evangelists' way, I am afraid.
I am entitled to have an opinion about this.... and post it in a discussion board.
There have to be priorities set by Jesus.
1. Jesus's saving grace.
2. the rest.
The folks that support folks like D. Trump using Jesus's name for it just to promote their own political stance... fail to accept the priorities laid out by Jesus in the Bible.

 

[thomas t]

Trump and Biden are controlled.

Totally unsubstanciated charges pulled out of thin air... that's how "Christian" discussions about politics often evolve these days, it seems:

"they are all silly beyond reason"
"Amen brother!"
"actually, the new world order is near, and homosexuals are poisoning the youth"
" oh, what spirit led discernment. Keep on exposing!"
" climate change, it's a scam!
" it's all hogwash. Greta Thunberg is a victim of child abuse"
"they are all pedophile"
"we will be persecuted!"
....
a succession of bold claims that never come accompanied by actual evidence, it seems.

My suggestion for these "Christian" politics? see title.

 

[Vee]

Christianity better be neutral on politics.

That's what the bible indicates. What good could come out of mixing religion and politics anyway? That causes nothing but trouble.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's what the bible indicates. What good could come out of mixing religion and politics anyway? That causes nothing but trouble.

Is that what the Bible indicates?

My reading of the Gospels suggests that the author assumes that Christians will always be on the fringes of society without political power.

I don't see them envisioning a situation where Christians would have the opportunity to wield political power but choose not to.

 

[Vee]

No, I'm not bossing around.
I don't want my brothers to hinder true evangelization from working.
I think there are many good workers around that invite people to accept the Gospel of Jesus' saving grace.
Then there are the other dudes that can't help but support politicians that don't value democracy high.
The latter ones put obstacles in the evangelists' way, I am afraid.
I am entitled to have an opinion about this.... and post it in a discussion board.
There have to be priorities set by Jesus.
1. Jesus's saving grace.
2. the rest.
The folks that support folks like D. Trump using Jesus's name for it just to promote their own political stance... fail to accept the priorities laid out by Jesus in the Bible.

FYI, from what I read in your posts, I think you're a very decent human being and an asset to RF.
You can only be responsible for your own words and actions, not others. Asking Christians to do their job is not bossing anyone around. I look forward to keep reading your posts. Take care Thomas

 

[Cooky]

No, I'm not bossing around.
I don't want my brothers to hinder true evangelization from working.
I think there are many good workers around that invite people to accept the Gospel of Jesus' saving grace.
Then there are the other dudes that can't help but support politicians that don't value democracy high.
The latter ones put obstacles in the evangelists' way, I am afraid.
I am entitled to have an opinion about this.... and post it in a discussion board.
There have to be priorities set by Jesus.
1. Jesus's saving grace.
2. the rest.
The folks that support folks like D. Trump using Jesus's name for it just to promote their own political stance... fail to accept the priorities laid out by Jesus in the Bible.

Evangelization isn't for everyone, just like not everyone should be a pastor. There are plenty of good Christians who serve the lord in a variety of ways... Evangelization is just one.

Besides, you want all the leaders of the world to be non-Christians? Because by telling Christians not to take part in politics, you're wiping all politics clean of Christian influences. Is that what you want?

 

[Cooky]

Asking Christians to do their job is not bossing anyone around.

Asking Christians to do their job *in your interpretation* is bossing them around, yes it is... It's radical extremism to promote the stripping away of Christian thought in politics. I see it as immoral and irresponsible.

...A Christian not willing to even try to save the life of an unborn child..? That’s just one example of why politics are important... There are many others.

Remember, this thread is in the debate section, so you can expect to see @thomas t and your own posts challenged.

 

[thomas t]

Evangelization isn't for everyone, just like not everyone should be a pastor.

these promotors of Christian politics often marred evangelists' efforts, it seems.

The others might think that the Christians are a bunch of maniacs that have no problem supporting a guy that does not really respect democratic institutions (Trump). Do Christians like to play with fire? … they might ask themselves.

The value of being able to live in a democracy can’t be overstated.

Christians are not persecuted in democratic countries by and large, but in North Korea and so on.



Look, in Europe, many successful governments aren't particularly Christian (Sweden for instance) and it still worked out for these countries. This is at least how it seems to me.

And the last chancellor in Germany (Schröder) who wasn't a Christian either, also did his job well (apart from being buddy buddy with Putin who currently has a problem with democracy).
This is at least my impression.

So if some atheists are so gifted in politics, let them do their work there.

Christians should focus on what Jesus tells them to do.

EDITED (the Netherlands that I cited as example... don't have an atheist government)

 

[74x12]

Totally unsubstanciated charges pulled out of thin air... that's how "Christian" discussions about politics often evolve these days, it seems:

"they are all silly beyond reason"
"Amen brother!"
"actually, the new world order is near, and homosexuals are poisoning the youth"
" oh, what spirit led discernment. Keep on exposing!"
" climate change, it's a scam!
" it's all hogwash. Greta Thunberg is a victim of child abuse"
"they are all pedophile"
"we will be persecuted!"
....
a succession of bold claims that never come accompanied by actual evidence, it seems.

My suggestion for these "Christian" politics? see title.

If you want to remain silent and just wait for them to come for you that's your choice but you can't put that on other Christians. They speak out because they would prevent evil from taking over the world unopposed. Because they care. As surely as Satan goes about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour he seeks for ways to come against Christians.

As Jesus said ye are the salt of the earth but if the salt has lost it's flavor it's good for nothing but to be cast out and trodden under the feet of men. I assume you know that in those days salt was not pure but was mixed with other minerals. So when it lost it's saltiness they would put it on the roads to keep grass from growing. So the point is when you're silent you're likely to end up persecuted and trodden under feet of men. Salt is a preservative so it keeps things. That's our Christian duty to keep the world from becoming to evil.

But if you want to remain silent like Jesus was when they took him to the cross that's your personal choice. But Jesus did that for a reason. He knew he must die to save the world and the people he loved. So what is your motive for remaining silent? It should be a good one just as the motive for speaking out is good by many other Christians.

1 Tim 3:12 assures us we will indeed be persecuted if we want to live righteously in Christ.

 

[Cooky]

these promotors of Christian politics often marred evangelists' efforts, it seems.

The others might think that the Christians are a bunch of maniacs that have no problem supporting a guy that does not really respect democratic institutions (Trump). Do Christians like to play with fire? … they might ask themselves.

The value of being able to live in a democracy can’t be overstated.

Christians are not persecuted in democratic countries by and large, but in North Korea and so on.



Look, in Europe, many successful governments aren't particularly Christian (Sweden for instance) and it still worked out for these countries. This is at least how it seems to me.

And the last chancellor in Germany (Schröder) who wasn't a Christian either, also did his job well (apart from being buddy buddy with Putin who currently has a problem with democracy).
This is at least my impression.

So if some atheists are so gifted in politics, let them do their work there.

Christians should focus on what Jesus tells them to do.

EDITED (the Netherlands that I cited as example... don't have an atheist government)

Again, you're making it seem like as long as Christians aren't being persecuted like they are in North Korea, that's good enough for evangelization to continue, and that's that... But evangelization is not all there is, there are other duties as well.

I also get the impression that you think Christian Trump supporters have hurt the Christian reputation, and hindered the possibility of evangelization. I think such a notion is overblown... Nobody associates Christianity and Trump as a unit except for maybe radical left wing atheists -- people who have no patience for evangelization and despise the very idea of God to begin with.

 

[thomas t]

Again, you're making it seem like as long as Christians aren't being persecuted like they are in North Korea, that's good enough for evangelization to continue, and that's that...

no, that wasn't my point.

I also get the impression that you think Christian Trump supporters have hurt the Christian reputation, and hindered the possibility of evangelization.

ah yes.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If by neutrality you mean being non-partisan, I guess it depends what the political options are in terms of what parties exist in one's country. I don't see how any person genuinely concerned about the material conditions of their fellow man could exempt themselves from the entire political process, as public policy has a direct impact on how wealth, goods, and services are distributed in society.

Christian are to pay back Caesar's(political) things to Caesar but God's things to God - Matthew 22:17-21
Thus,Christians are to work and pay their taxes because taxes to impact services, etc.
But when there is conflict between the political and God, then the Christian takes God's side - Acts of the Apostles 5:29 B.
Jesus is the example, the model Christians follow according to 1 Peter 2:21
Jesus and his followers were politically neutral ( No taking of sides )
They did Not get involved in the political issues of the day. Even the issues of the Jews verses the Romans.
'Genuinely concerned about the material' a Christian places trust in God's hands - Matthew 6:31-33

 

[Subduction Zone]

Is that politically neutral?

It was an observation.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Again, you're making it seem like as long as Christians aren't being persecuted like they are in North Korea, that's good enough for evangelization to continue, and that's that... But evangelization is not all there is, there are other duties as well......................

Besides North Korea, there is persecution in Russia, etc.
True, evangelization is Not all there is. For Example: the apostle Paul supported his ministry by making tents - Acts of the Apostles 18:3
- Please also see 1 Thessalonians 2:9; 2 Thessalonians 3:8-10; 1 Timothy 5:8