Those hate-filled religious leaders could Not execute anyone, so they had to trump up political charges against Jesus so the Romans would do their dirty work.
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Political Neutrality Please! (I mean my brothers and sisters)
Those hate-filled religious leaders could Not execute anyone, so they had to trump up political charges against Jesus so the Romans would do their dirty work.
74x12
Well-Known Member
I really think many of them supported Hitler and went along with the Nazis because of fear to speak out rather than agreement with Nazi ideology. But there were some like Dietrich Bonhoeffer who went against the Nazis. That's my point. Christians should not be afraid to speak out. Don't be sheeple and speak out against evil.
However, I do think you have a good point that Christians should focus on evangelism more.
The political allowing abortion does Not mean one has to have an abortion.
Abortion is only a High Crime in God's eyes when the mother has an abortion just to get rid of an unwanted child.
For such a selfish reason then both mother and doctor act as judge and executioner that the unborn is Not worthy of continued life.
What about irresponsible pregnancy (?) how would getting involved with the political stop that_____________ ( 1 Corinthians 7:2 )
in God's eyes both parents (Not the political) are responsible for the minor child.
How can the political make irresponsible parents responsible. History shows they can't.
Just as science is Not the teacher or morality, and the political is Not the teacher of morality, but the Bible is the teacher of morality.
So, if all people (Not some) choose biblical morality there would be No need for some to try to tell the political what to do.
Religious people trying to ' throne or dethrone ' the political will only bring bad consequences causing the political to turn on the religious.
When the people wanted Jesus as political ruler I find it was Not Jesus' duty according to John 6:15.
No matter what, Jesus was politically neutral and so were his followers neutral.
Jesus only promoted God's Kingdom government (Daniel 2:44) and for Christians: Jesus is already king /ruler.
Jesus Not only promoted God's Kingdom (Luke 4:43) but instructed his followers to do the same - Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8
Biblically to have an abortion for 'selfish reasons' is a High Crime in God's eyes.
Cooky
Veteran Member
...But we're here on the earth now. So are you saying we should forget about this world altogether, and focus solely on God's Kingdom?
Because in Jesus' time, there was no voting. You had rulers and regular people... So how could he have promoted politics when not everyone could be a politician?
...You see what I'm saying? things have changed.
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Samael_Khan
Goosebender
I didn't know that they actually targeted Byzantium in the fourth crusade. So that is interesting.
In the Peasants crusade, which was a pre crusade that started before the first crusade, you are right that the Byzantines did help them but they also got into a fight. But before that they got into altercations with locals in Byzantine territory. But the details I mentioned were wrong (bad memory). (I don't even know why I mention Byzantium as a city
) Read below. People's Crusade - Wikipedia
Quote:
"Cologne to Constantinople[edit]
Peter and the remaining crusaders left Cologne about 20 April. About 40,000 Crusaders departed immediately. Another group would follow soon after; this group committed the Rhineland massacres against Jewish populations and is sometimes referred to as the "German Crusade of 1096".[5] When they reached the Danube, part of the army decided to continue on by boat down the Danube, while the main body continued overland and entered Hungary at Sopron. There it continued through Hungary without incident and rejoined the Danube contingent at Zemun on the Byzantine frontier.
"Siege of Niš on 4 July 1096
In Zemun, the crusaders became suspicious, seeing Walter's sixteen suits of armor hanging from the walls, and eventually a dispute over the price of a pair of shoes in the market led to a riot, which then turned into an all-out assault on the city by the crusaders, in which 4,000 Hungarians were killed. The crusaders then fled across the river Sava to Belgrade, but only after skirmishing with Belgrade troops. The residents of Belgrade fled, and the crusaders pillaged and burned the city. Then they marched for seven days, arriving at Niš on 3 July. There, the commander of Niš promised to provide escort for Peter's army to Constantinople as well as food, if he would leave right away. Peter obliged, and the next morning he set out. However, a few Germans got into a dispute with some locals along the road and set fire to a mill, which escalated out of Peter's control until Niš sent out its entire garrison against the crusaders. The crusaders were completely routed, losing about 10,000 (a quarter of their number), the remainder regrouping further on at Bela Palanka.[5] When they reached Sofia on 12 July they met their Byzantine escort, which brought them safely the rest of the way to Constantinople by 1 August."
Heyo
Veteran Member
I didn't know that about the peasants crusade. My time in living history is nearer to the fourth crusade. Our group tries to depict the Stedinger peasants at the time of the Stedinger crusade.I didn't know that they actually targeted Byzantium in the fourth crusade. So that is interesting.
In the Peasants crusade, which was a pre crusade that started before the first crusade, you are right that the Byzantines did help them but they also got into a fight. But before that they got into altercations with locals in Byzantine territory. But the details I mentioned were wrong (bad memory). (I don't even know why I mention Byzantium as a city
People's Crusade - Wikipedia
Quote:
"Cologne to Constantinople[edit]
Peter and the remaining crusaders left Cologne about 20 April. About 40,000 Crusaders departed immediately. Another group would follow soon after; this group committed the Rhineland massacres against Jewish populations and is sometimes referred to as the "German Crusade of 1096".[5] When they reached the Danube, part of the army decided to continue on by boat down the Danube, while the main body continued overland and entered Hungary at Sopron. There it continued through Hungary without incident and rejoined the Danube contingent at Zemun on the Byzantine frontier.
"Siege of Niš on 4 July 1096
In Zemun, the crusaders became suspicious, seeing Walter's sixteen suits of armor hanging from the walls, and eventually a dispute over the price of a pair of shoes in the market led to a riot, which then turned into an all-out assault on the city by the crusaders, in which 4,000 Hungarians were killed. The crusaders then fled across the river Sava to Belgrade, but only after skirmishing with Belgrade troops. The residents of Belgrade fled, and the crusaders pillaged and burned the city. Then they marched for seven days, arriving at Niš on 3 July. There, the commander of Niš promised to provide escort for Peter's army to Constantinople as well as food, if he would leave right away. Peter obliged, and the next morning he set out. However, a few Germans got into a dispute with some locals along the road and set fire to a mill, which escalated out of Peter's control until Niš sent out its entire garrison against the crusaders. The crusaders were completely routed, losing about 10,000 (a quarter of their number), the remainder regrouping further on at Bela Palanka.[5] When they reached Sofia on 12 July they met their Byzantine escort, which brought them safely the rest of the way to Constantinople by 1 August."
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
I think it is impossible not to have your religious beliefs at least influence your political views.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Jesus was most political.
He was demanding the full reinstatement of all the Laws of Moses, especially the poor laws, I think.
That's political.
I rather got the impression that Trumpy was all about Mammon and much less about God.
Christian? Hmmmmm....
Which churches?
thank you for agreeing that Christians should focus more bon evangelism.
Concerning the support for Hitler stemming from Christians... that began way earlier than he was even elected into power.
This source from an evangelical church, explains the attitude of its leader and the whole church from 1933 (see page 2, click HERE - source in German language):
Für Hitler sprach unter anderem auch, dass er angeblich die Herrnhuter Losungen und die Bibel las, dass er nicht rauchte und keinen Alkohol trank, dass er diszipliniert und mit großem Einsatz arbeitete, und dass er tatsächlich als Retter vor dem Bolschewismus angesehen wurde. Auch im Hinblick auf die ersten Maßnahmen gegen Juden im Deutschen Reich, wie den Boykott jüdischer Geschäfte am 1.4.1933, unterstützte er die Haltung der neuen Regierung.
In English:
"With regard to Hitler, they saw that he purportedly read the HerrnhutherLosungen (which is a Bible verse for each day) and the Bible, that he abstained from cigarettes and alcohol... that he worked diligently and with great efforts... and that he was seen as the virtual savior from bolshevism.
Concerning the first measures against the Jews from April 1st, 1933, he supported the stance of the new government."
so we see that their attitude was flawed to the bone....
most evangelical churches, in my opinion, see source in # 70 (one post above).
They say that most leaders from a conservative church background (which I call evangelical churches, since the church that has the essay on their site... is also evangelical themselves).
Moreoiver, half of the mainline Protestant church did support Hitler as I see it.
Samael_Khan
Goosebender
What do you mean by "our group"?
Heyo
Veteran Member
Even though you may be right according to the definition of evangelicalism, I don't think it's useful to equate the German "evangelisch" with the meaning of evangelical in US understanding. Over the pond "evangelical" means conservative Baptist or Pentecostal (mostly). Lutherans are called "Mainline Protestant" and are much too liberal to fit into the "evangelical" meaning.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Just a handful of people sharing the hobby, loosely associated. We are not a club.
Samael_Khan
Goosebender
That is so cool. I only have RF and one outside friend to share stuff like this with.
yeah of course.
You are absolutely right in saying the Mainline Protestant church cannot be compared to anything evangelical.
BTW, here is a German site that explains that the mainline Protestant church used to be split in halves by whether or not they supported Hitler. Kirchenkampf und Krieg
So let me clarify:
I call evangelical who is a member of the DEA (Deutsche Evangelische Allianz), see www.ead.de. Penticostals I also call evangelicals, for reasons of simplicity.
Actually, in Germany people usually say that half of all evangelicals are in that organization.
There are member churches that used to be staunch supporters of Hitler, such as Herrnhuther Missionsgemeinde, see Startseite - Evangelische Brüder-Unität – Herrnhuter Brüdergemeine.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Currently it is a bit sad. We had one event last year due to corona and it looks like there will be no events before August this year.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Yep, the Lutherans (and other protestants) didn't cover themselves with glory but the Catholics (Hitler was a Catholic) were even worse. The Lutherans at least had some exceptions like Dietrich Bonhoeffer.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
As a Catholic, there's no doubt that the Church's actions in the past when they sometimes aligned themselves with secular powers often led to an utterly depraved compromising of the same morals they taught. Even within the Baptist church, Billy Graham lamented that the single biggest mistake he made as a pastor was his aligning himself with Nixon. And now we see so many Evangelicals falling into this same pit.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Winston Churchill was a Protestant, and most of the British.
Hitler was all about Power, Status, Success. Hitler was about Hitler