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How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Here's a verse they use from Ezekiel 43:4 The glory of the LORD entered the temple through the gate facing east.

They get both their prophets in with this one verse. The Bab, they say means "The Gate". And who is coming by way of the gate that faces East? It is the "Glory of God". And to top it off. Both of them came from Persia, which is East of Israel. I have no idea what this verse means or what the context is saying. All I know is that Baha'is and Christians sure like to find one or two verses that they can make into "Messianic" prophecies.
Matthew 24:27 For just as the lightning comes out of the east and shines over to the west, so the presence of the Son of man will be.


18. Lightning from the East

I now began an earnest search for clues that would tell me something about the place in which the Messiah would appear. Two interesting things came to light. For the first coming, Daniel had given the time and Micah had given the place. Daniel had prophesied exactly when the Messiah would appear the first time and when He would be slain. Micah had said of the place:“But thou, Bethlehem … out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel.” (Micah 5:2)

Daniel had also prophesied with even greater exactness the time of the second coming of the Messiah in 1844 (see p. 20). Therefore, I turned to Micah for a possible clue as to the place of His second appearance. I was richly rewarded. In Micah 7:7 and 12 I found:

“I will wait for the God of my salvation … In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria …” (Micah 7:7, 12)

The Assyrian Empire at one time covered the entire area in which both Daniel and Micah lived out their lives. Therefore, I chose to study those parts of the Empire, in which these two prophets traditionally lived and taught. To my surprise, I found that there were many other clues to follow as well. Gradually one led to another, until a definite picture began to emerge, and I knew at least in which direction to turn my gaze.

The book of Ezekiel spoke of a great Figure who would come in those days. He said:“And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east.” (Ezekiel 43:2)

This was clearly a reference to the second coming of Christ and not the first, for Jesus did not come from the way of the East, He came from north and west of Jerusalem. Isaiah in like manner spoke of the wondrous Figure who would come from the East. Isaiah said that it was God Himself Who had “… raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings.” (Isaiah 41:2) Even Christ Himself pointed to the direction from which He would appear in the day of His second coming. Speaking of that day, He said: “For as the lightning cometh out of the East … so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” (Matthew 24:27)

The Jewish Oracles, the Sibylline books, prophesied that the ‘King Messiah’ of the time of the end would come ‘from the sunrise’. (The Messianic Idea in Israel, J. G. Klausner, 1956, p. 376). Daniel had written his words of millennial prophecy while in the East. Infact, he was in Elam, a part of ancient Persia, when he foretold with such startling accuracy the exact time of both the first and the second comings of Christ. It was in the capital city of Persia, Shúshán, (Ancient Susa, Khúzistán, south-west Írán) that Daniel had the prophetic vision that revealed the year 1844 as the time for the return of the Messiah. Daniel not only gave the time 1844, but he also directed attention to the place, saying that ‘Elam’ (Persia) would be given as a place of ‘vision’ in the latter days (Daniel 8:2). The Prophet Jeremiah speaks of things that ‘shall come to pass in the latterdays’ and in the verse preceding this, he says: “And I will set my throne in Elam (Persia) … saith the Lord.” (Jeremiah 49:38). I came across a prophecy well known among the Arabs. Speaking of the time of the end, it said: “When the promised One appears, the ‘upholders of His faith shall be the people of Persia.’” (The Dawn-breakers, Nabíl, p. 49). All these prophecies clearly showed that the Messiah would come from the East, and they put a strong emphasis on the territory of Persia. It was something definite to go on. The circle was narrowing.

William Sears, Thief in the Night, pp. 73-75

1. The king from the sunrise

Bahá’u’lláh came from Persia, which is to the East of Israel, but to the west of India. His ministry from the time of its beginning until his last days on earth was forty years. The prophets of Syria and Palestine foretold the coming of the promised Messiah from the East. The prophets and seers from India and the Far East, said that he would appear in the West. Persia, the birthplace of Bahá’u’lláh lies in between these two, and fulfils the requirements of each.

In the book of Enoch, it is prophesied that the Messiah of the last days shall come from the East of Israel, and that He shall come from the land now known as Persia. Enoch foretells: “And in those days the angels will assemble, and turn their heads towards the East, toward the people of Parthia and Medea, in order to excite the kings, and that a spirit of disturbance came over them, and disturbed them from off their thrones.” (Enoch 56:5). Parthia and Medea make up what is now the land of Persia, the birthplace of Bahá’u’lláh. The Jewish oracles, the Sibylline books, also mention the coming of the Messiah from the East, saying:

“And then from the sunrise God shall send a king who shall give every land relief from the bane of war … nor shall he do these things by his own counsel, but in obedience to the good ordinances of the Mighty God.” (cited in The Messianic idea in Israel, p. 376).

Joseph Klausner, in The Messianic idea in Israel, writes: “The ‘king from the sunrise’ is, without any doubt, the King-Messiah.”

The prophet Ezekiel also foretold that the Messiah would come to the Holy Land, Israel, from the East. He even gave the title by which He would be known in that day: The Glory of God [or the Glory of the Lord]. Ezekiel recorded his vision of the last days, saying: “And behold, the Glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east

…” (Ezekiel 43:2).

In another place, Ezekiel says:“And the Glory of the Lord came into the house by way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.”(Ezekiel 43:4).

I had already learned that the name Bahá’u’lláh was Persian, and when translated into English means, The Glory of God or The Glory of the Lord. His herald was called the Báb. This is also Persian, and translated into English means, The Gate.

The Báb was the Gate by which Bahá’u’lláh, the Glory of God, entered into the hearts of men.Bahá’u’lláh had come to Israel in exile from Persia which is to the East. I was more than satisfied by my findings. I learned that Bahá’u’lláh had completed the prophesies of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Micah, Zoroaster, Buddha, Muhammad, and many secular prophesies as well—all of which pointed to the time and the place from which the Shepherd of the day of the ‘one fold’ would come.

I marked the first proof: Fulfilled.

William Sears, Thief in the Night, pp. 109-111
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Matthew 24:27 For just as the lightning comes out of the east and shines over to the west, so the presence of the Son of man will be.


18. Lightning from the East

I now began an earnest search for clues that would tell me something about the place in which the Messiah would appear. Two interesting things came to light. For the first coming, Daniel had given the time and Micah had given the place. Daniel had prophesied exactly when the Messiah would appear the first time and when He would be slain. Micah had said of the place:“But thou, Bethlehem … out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel.” (Micah 5:2)

Daniel had also prophesied with even greater exactness the time of the second coming of the Messiah in 1844 (see p. 20). Therefore, I turned to Micah for a possible clue as to the place of His second appearance. I was richly rewarded. In Micah 7:7 and 12 I found:

“I will wait for the God of my salvation … In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria …” (Micah 7:7, 12)

The Assyrian Empire at one time covered the entire area in which both Daniel and Micah lived out their lives. Therefore, I chose to study those parts of the Empire, in which these two prophets traditionally lived and taught. To my surprise, I found that there were many other clues to follow as well. Gradually one led to another, until a definite picture began to emerge, and I knew at least in which direction to turn my gaze.

The book of Ezekiel spoke of a great Figure who would come in those days. He said:“And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east.” (Ezekiel 43:2)

This was clearly a reference to the second coming of Christ and not the first, for Jesus did not come from the way of the East, He came from north and west of Jerusalem. Isaiah in like manner spoke of the wondrous Figure who would come from the East. Isaiah said that it was God Himself Who had “… raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings.” (Isaiah 41:2) Even Christ Himself pointed to the direction from which He would appear in the day of His second coming. Speaking of that day, He said: “For as the lightning cometh out of the East … so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” (Matthew 24:27)

The Jewish Oracles, the Sibylline books, prophesied that the ‘King Messiah’ of the time of the end would come ‘from the sunrise’. (The Messianic Idea in Israel, J. G. Klausner, 1956, p. 376). Daniel had written his words of millennial prophecy while in the East. Infact, he was in Elam, a part of ancient Persia, when he foretold with such startling accuracy the exact time of both the first and the second comings of Christ. It was in the capital city of Persia, Shúshán, (Ancient Susa, Khúzistán, south-west Írán) that Daniel had the prophetic vision that revealed the year 1844 as the time for the return of the Messiah. Daniel not only gave the time 1844, but he also directed attention to the place, saying that ‘Elam’ (Persia) would be given as a place of ‘vision’ in the latter days (Daniel 8:2). The Prophet Jeremiah speaks of things that ‘shall come to pass in the latterdays’ and in the verse preceding this, he says: “And I will set my throne in Elam (Persia) … saith the Lord.” (Jeremiah 49:38). I came across a prophecy well known among the Arabs. Speaking of the time of the end, it said: “When the promised One appears, the ‘upholders of His faith shall be the people of Persia.’” (The Dawn-breakers, Nabíl, p. 49). All these prophecies clearly showed that the Messiah would come from the East, and they put a strong emphasis on the territory of Persia. It was something definite to go on. The circle was narrowing.

William Sears, Thief in the Night, pp. 73-75

1. The king from the sunrise

Bahá’u’lláh came from Persia, which is to the East of Israel, but to the west of India. His ministry from the time of its beginning until his last days on earth was forty years. The prophets of Syria and Palestine foretold the coming of the promised Messiah from the East. The prophets and seers from India and the Far East, said that he would appear in the West. Persia, the birthplace of Bahá’u’lláh lies in between these two, and fulfils the requirements of each.

In the book of Enoch, it is prophesied that the Messiah of the last days shall come from the East of Israel, and that He shall come from the land now known as Persia. Enoch foretells: “And in those days the angels will assemble, and turn their heads towards the East, toward the people of Parthia and Medea, in order to excite the kings, and that a spirit of disturbance came over them, and disturbed them from off their thrones.” (Enoch 56:5). Parthia and Medea make up what is now the land of Persia, the birthplace of Bahá’u’lláh. The Jewish oracles, the Sibylline books, also mention the coming of the Messiah from the East, saying:

“And then from the sunrise God shall send a king who shall give every land relief from the bane of war … nor shall he do these things by his own counsel, but in obedience to the good ordinances of the Mighty God.” (cited in The Messianic idea in Israel, p. 376).

Joseph Klausner, in The Messianic idea in Israel, writes: “The ‘king from the sunrise’ is, without any doubt, the King-Messiah.”

The prophet Ezekiel also foretold that the Messiah would come to the Holy Land, Israel, from the East. He even gave the title by which He would be known in that day: The Glory of God [or the Glory of the Lord]. Ezekiel recorded his vision of the last days, saying: “And behold, the Glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east

…” (Ezekiel 43:2).

In another place, Ezekiel says:“And the Glory of the Lord came into the house by way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.”(Ezekiel 43:4).

I had already learned that the name Bahá’u’lláh was Persian, and when translated into English means, The Glory of God or The Glory of the Lord. His herald was called the Báb. This is also Persian, and translated into English means, The Gate.

The Báb was the Gate by which Bahá’u’lláh, the Glory of God, entered into the hearts of men.Bahá’u’lláh had come to Israel in exile from Persia which is to the East. I was more than satisfied by my findings. I learned that Bahá’u’lláh had completed the prophesies of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Micah, Zoroaster, Buddha, Muhammad, and many secular prophesies as well—all of which pointed to the time and the place from which the Shepherd of the day of the ‘one fold’ would come.

I marked the first proof: Fulfilled.

William Sears, Thief in the Night, pp. 109-111

The angels at the four winds gathering the elect of God is a reference to those who believe in Jesus, which hunts that Jesus is the Messiah. There would be no need for two Messiahs.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I'm just focusing on the prophecies in Tanach that are claimed to have been fulfilled by Baha'u'llah. Are the verses messianic? Do they clearly identify Baha'u'llah and no one else? Were they actually fulfiled by Baha'u'llah or was it just a coincidence?
I do not know what you mean by “messianic”
Well. I'm looking at the book by William Sears. In it, he claims that Ezekia 43:2 and Ezekial 43:4 refer to Baha'u'llah. But, these verses do not speak about the Messiah at all. So I wouldn't claim these as relevant at all to whether or not Baha'u'llah is the Messiah.
labeling Him as the Glory of God might have been a way to help people determine how to interpret many of the prophecies. Say for example the Messiah is the Glory of God. That would mean we should be looking for a man who reflected God, a man who was a Manifestation of God, rather than an ordinary man.

I'm really only looking at the Tanach prophecies that Baha'i claim are speaking about him. If there are verses which support this idea that the Messiah will be a reflection of God, I'm happy to look at those.

I would not say that the prophecies clearly identify Baha’u’llah because they were not intended to do so, since prophecies are not written that way, such that it would be really easy to know to whom they refer. Also, we have no way of knowing if the prophets who wrote those prophecies knew the actual identity of the Messiah. Obviously they knew there would be a Messiah, and what would happen when he came, but that does not mean they knew who he would be, the given name that would be assigned to him in the future.
Perhaps then the next step is to look only at the verses which Baha'i claim show what the Messiah would do.

For example, take the following verse:

Micah 7:7 But I will hope in the Lord; I will wait for the God of my salvation; my God shall hearken to me.

I believe that this verse refers to the Messiah who came as a Manifestation of God, and He was a God of salvation.
See how this verse ties in with Micah 7:12 below.

I read your write-up on Michah 7:12 as well as rosends analysis of who the "he" is in this verse. I think that it makes more sense that the "he" is the enemy. The reason is that verses 10,11,12, and 13 are all talking about the same subject which is the enemy. If verse 12 were talking about the Messiah, then that would be out of place. 7:7 is also not talking about the messiah, from my point of view. It's talking about God.
How could it be a coincidence that all these things happened to Baha’u’llah during His mission on earth?
I honestly don't know. It's not a slam dunk, imo. But it's a curiosity.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Jesus and the apostles practiced Judaism and Christianity at the same time because the first Christians were Jewish Christians.
Nah. You can't tell the difference between Christianity and Judaism.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Themed satanic science pyramid temple attack.

Thought upon science.

Life on earth attacked same incident.

By jewel of god. Crystalline nuclear conversion.

Life attacked irradiated the taught human theme we all became Jews.

El in jewel gone. The crown of stone the natural king God O earth.

The factual human teaching everyone became a Jew we all got sacrificed.

Is not just one DNA story.

It was the story of human life.

How you interpret the documents motivated on self superiority.

Believe you are just a human only. Origin... without using names falsely. Tells the story correctly from a spiritual father non scientist memory.

Father said he was spiritual first not a scientist.

As atmosphere cooled DNA evolved. The higher life mind historic was the scientist remembered.

As father's spirit DNA was always less he knew he would live afterwards. Once only.

Do it a second time then you were completely removed.

Jesus teaching.

Ask a male why did you want to be God stone energy mass? That amount of radiation kills you.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
That doesn't mean that a Jew who follows Jesus doesn't also follow Jesus, because the covenants in the Scriptures are different situations from the law.
I don't think you know enough about Judaism to speak about it intelligently.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I don't think you know enough about Judaism to speak about it intelligently.

It's not a complicated issue. The Apostles followed both Judaism and Jesus, because there is no boundary that makes them mutually exclusive. Jewish Christian - Wikipedia

The split of Christianity and Judaism took place during the first centuries CE.[1][2]While the First Jewish–Roman War and the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE were main events, the separation was a long-term process, in which the boundaries were not clear-cut.[1][2]
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I don't think you know enough about Judaism to speak about it intelligently.

I meant it doesn't mean they don't also follow Judaism. There is historical evidence that backs up Christianity and Judaism being one. Jewish Christian - Wikipedia

Early Jewish Christianity
Most historians agree that Jesus or his followers established a new Jewish sect, one that attracted both Jewish and gentile converts. The self-perception, beliefs, customs, and traditions of the Jewish followers of Jesus, Jesus’s disciples and first followers, were grounded in first-century Judaism. According to New Testament scholar Bart D. Ehrman, a number of early Christianities existed in the first century CE, from which developed various Christian traditions and denominations, including proto-orthodoxy, Marcionites, Gnostics and the Jewish followers of Jesus.[41] According to theologian James D. G. Dunn, four types of early Christianity can be discerned: Jewish Christianity, Hellenistic Christianity, Apocalyptic Christianity, and early Catholicism.[42]
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
It's not a complicated issue. The Apostles followed both Judaism and Jesus, because there is no boundary that makes them mutually exclusive.
You're still stuck in the past.
It doesn't hint that Jesus isn't the Messiah though. Details related to history and tradition have nothing to do with whether Jesus is the Messiah.
We don't have a temple, the Jewish people are not united. Jesus is not the Jewish Messiah.
I meant it doesn't mean they don't also follow Judaism. There is historical evidence that backs up Christianity and Judaism being one.
The historical evidence is that the early Christians believed that their faith in Jesus brought salvation for themselves. That is not a Jewish practice.
 
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