Question to Catholics: Is Adolf Hitler a Christian?

[viole]

I highly doubt it.

Correct. She was 9.

2009 Brazilian girl abortion case - Wikipedia

Ciao

- viole

 

[Estro Felino]

Recently I ran into a statement insinuating that Adolf Hitler was a Christian... quoted by my discussion partner.

As a Catholic, do you see him as a Christian?

Here on RF, one of your brothers once said, the Catholic Church was blameless.

Before you say it's obvious that he wasn't a Christian, consider that he was baptized into the Catholic Church and never was excummunicated. He never left the Catholic Church.
---------------------
While the Catholic Church does excommunicate people, for instance for what they call false teaching, they did not excommunicate Hitler and his servants.

As blameless as the Catholic church portrays itself to be, they did not find a reason to regret not having kicked him out. Until today. This is at least to the best of my knowledge.

The pope knew what was going on, that there was a holocaust. https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-consent/?next_url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/04/29/vatican-pope-pius-records-holocaust/

edited for clarity

1) not Christian at all
2) not a Catholic at all, since he threatened to kidnap the Pope to dissuade him from hindering the deportation of Roman Jews.

 

[thomas t]

But was the original excommunication of the Nazi leadership rescinded?

It did not happen. Wikipedia is wrong here.
If you claim otherwise, please provide a link to a decent source.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

Can't link to that page -- do you have a comment to make on what I wrote?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hitler had railed against homosexuals. Yet, he was an artist, and many of Hitler's paintings were hidden from public scrutiny. Some of Hitler's art depicted two naked men sexually pleasing each other. While the stereotypical artist is Gay, it appears that Hitler really was Gay. Perhaps his predilection for blond and blue eyed men (though Hitler was not blond nor blue eyed), may have been about being Gay.

Yeah, no. I haven't seen any quotes from Hitler about homosexuality at all. Many of the SA were known to be gay, such as Rohm, and homosexuality isn't why the SA was wiped out or at least not the main reason. Other prominent Nazis were gay or closeted. Homosexuality was illegal in Nazi Germany but Hitler didn't seem to care that much about it (at least not enough to have quotes about it), aside from wanting Germans to reproduce.

There's no evidence of Hitler being gay. People seem to love tacky rumors about his sex life, weirdly.

 

[wellwisher]

Recently I ran into a statement insinuating that Adolf Hitler was a Christian... quoted by my discussion partner.

As a Catholic, do you see him as a Christian?

Here on RF, one of your brothers once said, the Catholic Church was blameless.

Before you say it's obvious that he wasn't a Christian, consider that he was baptized into the Catholic Church and never was excummunicated. He never left the Catholic Church.
---------------------
While the Catholic Church does excommunicate people, for instance for what they call false teaching, they did not excommunicate Hitler and his servants.

As blameless as the Catholic church portrays itself to be, they did not find a reason to regret not having kicked him out. Until today. This is at least to the best of my knowledge.

The pope knew what was going on, that there was a holocaust. https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-consent/?next_url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/04/29/vatican-pope-pius-records-holocaust/

edited for clarity

 

[wellwisher]

Recently I ran into a statement insinuating that Adolf Hitler was a Christian... quoted by my discussion partner.

As a Catholic, do you see him as a Christian?

Here on RF, one of your brothers once said, the Catholic Church was blameless.

Before you say it's obvious that he wasn't a Christian, consider that he was baptized into the Catholic Church and never was excummunicated. He never left the Catholic Church.
---------------------
While the Catholic Church does excommunicate people, for instance for what they call false teaching, they did not excommunicate Hitler and his servants.

As blameless as the Catholic church portrays itself to be, they did not find a reason to regret not having kicked him out. Until today. This is at least to the best of my knowledge.

The pope knew what was going on, that there was a holocaust. https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-consent/?next_url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/04/29/vatican-pope-pius-records-holocaust/

edited for clarity

That is similar to calling any atheist, who had any childhood training in religion, a default religious person. According to atheist logic, is not about who one chooses to be as an adult, but what one was told to do as a child. That programming is so profound it cannot be undone.

Dawkins, who is considered an atheist spokesman, also learned religion as a child. So he must be a Christian according to this topic. However he is not spun that way by the atheists. This dual standard comes from the atheist religion and is not part of Christian teaching.

Hitler chose to become a pagan atheist later in life, since his actions became anti-christian and not condoned by his early teachings in the church. Instead Hitler bought into Social Darwinism and other sciences of the day like rocket and nuclear science, all for the purpose of selective advantages. He was not about love, but became an angry self centered atheist.

If you know your history, along with the Jews, over 1 million Catholics were sent to concentration camps . These actions were connected to the atheist behavior Hitler developed, As a show of loyalty he forcefully to deny his childhood connections, via his actions. His mother was Jewish and according to the Jewish law that makes him a Jew, which he also denied, in force, in favor of atheism.

Luckily a good Christian country, called America, kicked his butt. According to Christianity there was no greater love that to lay down you life for your brother. The young Christians enlisted to risk life to beat back the atheist axis of evil.

 

[Subduction Zone]

But was the original excommunication of the Nazi leadership rescinded? The way I read it, the blanket excommunication of anyone who was a member of the party was lifted, because the Nazis started to insist that anyone in public sector work had to be a member. So many innocent workers were forced to join to retain their jobs. In that situation it would have been grotesque for the church to excommunicate all these people for no fault of their own.

I can't say for sure, but it looks as if that was more an act of sword rattling than an actual excommunication.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That is similar to calling any atheist, who had any childhood training in religion, a default religious person. According to atheist logic, is not about who one chooses to be as an adult, but what one was told to do as a child. That programming is so profound it cannot be undone.

Dawkins, who is considered an atheist spokesman, also learned religion as a child. So he must be a Christian according to this topic. However he is not spun that way by the atheists. This dual standard comes from the atheist religion and is not part of Christian teaching.

Hitler chose to become a pagan atheist later in life, since his actions became anti-christian and not condoned by his early teachings in the church. Instead Hitler bought into Social Darwinism and other sciences of the day like rocket and nuclear science, all for the purpose of selective advantages. He was not about love, but became an angry self centered atheist.

If you know your history, along with the Jews, over 1 million Catholics were sent to concentration camps . These actions were connected to the atheist behavior Hitler developed, As a show of loyalty he forcefully to deny his childhood connections, via his actions. His mother was Jewish and according to the Jewish law that makes him a Jew, which he also denied, in force, in favor of atheism.

Luckily a good Christian country, called America, kicked his butt. According to Christianity there was no greater love that to lay down you life for your brother. The young Christians enlisted to risk life to beat back the atheist axis of evil.

Pure nonsense. And self contradictory to boot. You missed the point. Hitler, like most Christians, was indoctrinated from birth. In his own public statements he claimed to be a Christian more than once. There are no reliable sources that can support A claim that he was not a Christian. And there have been all sorts of vile acts by Christian led governments throughout history. Hitler was arguably the worst. At best you can only argue that he was not your sort of Christian.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Luckily a good Christian country, called America, kicked his butt. According to Christianity there was no greater love that to lay down you life for your brother. The young Christians enlisted to risk life to beat back the atheist axis of evil.

So you think that the US in the 40s - with its segregated army - exemplified Christian values?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Hitler was a Christian in very much the same way that Trump is a Christian, and Christians of all stripes constantly found the Nazi regime to be an existential threat.

 

[exchemist]

I can't say for sure, but it looks as if that was more an act of sword rattling than an actual excommunication.

Well either the German bishops excommunicated the Nazi leadership in 1931 as Wiki claims, or Wiki has it wrong. What gives you reason to think Wiki is wrong about this?

 

[thomas t]

He was not a congregant during his adult life.

My point is that the Church is reluctant to judge congregants, generally feeling that judgement is God's sovereignty.

ok metis, but can we judge if he was Catholic?
Some people said there are lapsed Catholics, you say there are non-congregant Catholics, if I get you right? But non-congregant Catholics are Catholics right?

Take my example for example: I was baptised into the Catholic Chruch,
but aged 22 I went to the local town hall and signed a document saying that I officially left Catholicism. I formally quit the membership in that church. So I'm no longer Catholic. No non-congregant Catholic, I'm just not Catholic.

Moreover, only members of the Catholic Church pay money to that church,
those who aren't members in that church don't pay them any money (except if they want to make a donation...).
So.... was Hitler a member of your church or wasn't he, Metis?

Thomas

 

[viole]

Luckily a good Christian country, called America, kicked his butt. According to Christianity there was no greater love that to lay down you life for your brother. The young Christians enlisted to risk life to beat back the atheist axis of evil.

You mean like atheistic soviet Russia? Allied to the USA to kick his butt, as you said?

And what atheist axis of evil?

What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8

i am afraid, he was a co-believers of yours.

ciao

- viole

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You mean like atheistic soviet Russia? Allied to the USA to kick his butt, as you said?

Good point.

Defeating the Nazis was more thanks to the USSR than it was to the US.

 

[exchemist]

You mean like atheistic soviet Russia? Allied to the USA to kick his butt, as you said?

And what atheist axis of evil?

What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8

i am afraid, he was a co-believers of yours.

ciao

- viole

Well, he wasn't really. He may have believed in some sort of God, but it's fairly obvious he was not Christian in any recognisable sense: Religious views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia

However you are of course quite right in pointing out that there is no way WW2 can be represented as religious belief vs atheism.

 

[Rival]

to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator.

Jews, Christians, Muslims, Baha'is, Sikhs, Theists and Deists believe in a creator. Hitler could have been a Deist according to this quote; no need to impart religion where there is none, but you only imply it there yourself.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well either the German bishops excommunicated the Nazi leadership in 1931 as Wiki claims, or Wiki has it wrong. What gives you reason to think Wiki is wrong about this?

I wouldn't say that Wiki is wrong on this, but perhaps your interpretation is. Others do not interpret it the same way that you do. You will find source after source that state that Hitler was never excommunicated. I would go with the "did not take" concept. Just as the excommunication of the mother and doctor in Brazil did not take.

 

[thomas t]

I wouldn't say that Wiki is wrong on this, but perhaps your interpretation is. Others do not interpret it the same way that you do. You will find source after source that state that Hitler was never excommunicated. I would go with the "did not take" concept. Just as the excommunication of the mother and doctor in Brazil did not take.

no, it's just completely wrong. It did not happen. Besides Wiki absolutely noone is claiming that Hitler + the Nazi leadership was excommunicated. It's just entirely wrong.

 

[exchemist]

I wouldn't say that Wiki is wrong on this, but perhaps your interpretation is. Others do not interpret it the same way that you do. You will find source after source that state that Hitler was never excommunicated. I would go with the "did not take" concept. Just as the excommunication of the mother and doctor in Brazil did not take.

But it's there is black and white. The leadership was excommunicated in 1931.

I still do not understand what you mean by it not "taking". Excommunication is not a graft or something. It means the excommunicated person is refused the sacraments of the church. What you could mean,I suppose, is that excommunication was irrelevant to the Nazi leaders since they did not go to church anyway. But there is nothing about this that "takes" or does not "take", so far as I can see.

What sources are these that say Hitler was never excommunicated? . If I google "Hitler excommunication" I get a list of hits all saying he was excommunicated, but as he had never attended church since his teens it meant nothing in practice - or some such words.