Epicurean Paradox and my Faith

[9-10ths_Penguin]

in my opinion, man is not in a position to set rules for God. Man is His creation, in my opinion.

According to the Bible, thanks to Adam & Eve's sin of eating of the Tree, we have knowledge of good and evil "like God," and are therefore entirely capable of judging God.

 

[Tiberius]

Good question. Maybe it's because good and evil aren't just specific actions or behaviors.

If the programmer was all-knowing and all powerful (as believers often claim God is), then that shouldn't pose a problem.

 

[Tiberius]

Lol. You said A=B but b<>A so I just corrected you. Thats not an argument I made.

Yes it is. If A is a cause and B is an effect, then it doesn't go both ways.

A leads to B doesn't mean B leads to A, and it certainly does not mean that A and B are equal to each other.

And I never said "A equals B." I said "A leads to B." There's a very big difference there.

 

[Tiberius]

Can sex as a whole, in this universe, as a concept, exist without pregnancy?

Would not a few animals and people at least get pregnant due to sex?

You are speaking of one single individual and sex. I am referring to all humans. You think this so called "free will" is only relevant to one human being?

The chance that sex could never lead to pregnancy may be very small, but is still not zero.

 

[firedragon]

Yes it is. If A is a cause and B is an effect, then it doesn't go both ways.

Of course. It was you who made that A=B logic.

 

[Ponder This]

If the programmer was all-knowing and all powerful (as believers often claim God is), then that shouldn't pose a problem.

Obviously, it is a problem for video game creators and it's not clear that the problem can be circumvented through more knowledge and more power. That's the point.

War Games Spoiler:

 

[Tiberius]

Of course. It was you who made that A=B logic.

Please show me where I made that claim.

 

[Tiberius]

Obviously, it is a problem for video game creators and it's not clear that the problem can be circumvented through more knowledge and more power. That's the point.

War Games Spoiler:

Of course, that's only true when the game is played within the limitations built into the game.

If the programmer uses cheat codes, then they can bypass such limitations.

 

[firedragon]

Please show me where I made that claim.

I dont know mate. Maybe I did not understand you. So for that I apologise.

Have a great day.

 

[firedragon]

The chance that sex could never lead to pregnancy may be very small, but is still not zero.

So what probability is there that sex could exist in this universe with no pregnancy?

 

[Tiberius]

I dont know mate. Maybe I did not understand you. So for that I apologise.

Have a great day.

I believe the confusion comes from post 182, where I said:

Because you are assuming that "if A, then B" is the same thing as "if B, then A."

If we conclude that "If evil exists, there is free will," we can not conclude that "If free will exists, there must be evil."

However, I said,"If A, then B," which is very different to saying that A and B are the same thing.

So, A can lead to B, but that doesn't mean that A must always lead to B. And is also doesn't mean that B can lead to A. It might be the case that B can never lead to A.

If A is free will and B is evil, we can say that free will can lead to evil, but it's not an unavoidable outcome.

And if A is sex and B is pregnancy, we can say that sex can lead to pregnancy, but again, it isn't an unavoidable outcome.

 

[firedragon]

I believe the confusion comes from post 182, where I said:



However, I said,"If A, then B," which is very different to saying that A and B are the same thing.

So, A can lead to B, but that doesn't mean that A must always lead to B. And is also doesn't mean that B can lead to A. It might be the case that B can never lead to A.

If A is free will and B is evil, we can say that free will can lead to evil, but it's not an unavoidable outcome.

And if A is sex and B is pregnancy, we can say that sex can lead to pregnancy, but again, it isn't an unavoidable outcome.

Okay okay. It was my bad. Sorry about that.

Anyway, the point is, though evil is not an out come of every vessel of free will, it is an inevitable outcome. This free will cannot exist as a reality with out that outcome.

Though your analogy of sex may not be great for this, sex as a reality cannot exist without pregnancy as an outcome. Its an impossibility.

We are talking about the whole of humanity, not one person who takes birth control pills and wears diaphragms and makes the wear a condom and maybe even get a Vasectomy.

Hope you understand.

 

[Tiberius]

Okay okay. It was my bad. Sorry about that.

No problem.

A

nyway, the point is, though evil is not an out come of every vessel of free will, it is an inevitable outcome. This free will cannot exist as a reality with out that outcome.

Technically, only true if there are an infinite number of such vessels.

For example, it is technically possible that the act of flipping a coin could result in the coin landing on its edge instead of landing as heads or as tails. But I'm willing to bet that's never happened to you, nor to anyone else. I'd bet quite a bit of money that it's never happened to anyone (unless they deliberately arranged for it to happen somehow). So even though it's a possible outcome, it doesn't mean it's likely to happen. So we must very very careful when we assume that just because something is possible that it must be inevitable.

Though your analogy of sex may not be great for this, sex as a reality cannot exist without pregnancy as an outcome. Its an impossibility.

I've had sex plenty of times and pregnancy did not occur.

We are talking about the whole of humanity, not one person who takes birth control pills and wears diaphragms and makes the wear a condom and maybe even get a Vasectomy.

But the point remains: the fact that an outcome is possible does not reflect on how likely it is to happen.

 

[firedragon]

I've had sex plenty of times and pregnancy did not occur.

We are talking about the whole of humanity,

 

[Tiberius]

...

But the point remains: the fact that an outcome is possible does not reflect on how likely it is to happen.

 

[firedragon]

Cheers.