Goodnight James Randi

[George-ananda]

Except he did, and he proves it when he can't perform when people are on to him.

Can’t stop you from believing what you want to believe.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Can’t stop you from believing what you want to believe.

I don't believe. I know. Geller has been so thoroughly debunked--by others more clever and basically himself--I'm surprised he's even still active. He's so lame he even admitted a test of his abilities he didn't set up scares him. Because he immediately knew he'd been one upped, people are on to him, and it put in a very bad situation.

 

[blü 2]

That they should consider what the critics of the Randi types have to say too. That's what I did as an impartial onlooker. And then I adopted the most reasonable position in the end.

The idea that paranormal powers and supernatural events occur in reality is one not available to me , so total is the absence of evidence of a standard satisfactory to reasoned enquiry.

Were that wrong, it should be ridiculously easy to give just such a satisfactory demonstration for everything that's claimed. I assure you I can be swayed by satisfactory evidence.

There is simply none ─ rather just examples of believing is seeing.

 

[George-ananda]

The idea that paranormal powers and supernatural events occur in reality is one not available to me , so total is the absence of evidence of a standard satisfactory to reasoned enquiry.

Were that wrong, it should be ridiculously easy to give just such a satisfactory demonstration for everything that's claimed. I assure you I can be swayed by satisfactory evidence.

There is simply none ─ rather just examples of believing is seeing.

Psychic abilities in humans are generally a weak but real phenomena so dramatic and repeatable phenomena is not what is claimed. Uri Geller is about one of the best though. But that draws the hatred from the non-believers. And there it sits.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Psychic abilities in humans are generally a weak but real phenomena so dramatic and repeatable phenomena is not what is claimed. Uri Geller is about one of the best though. But that draws the hatred from the non-believers. And there it sits.

It's more of a perverse curiosity with those who still believe him. Truly, Geller is less a B-rate magician. But he's actually one of the best ever.
Because magic isn't about the trick itself. I can watch most magic shows on TV and know exactly how they do most of their tricks. But how magic is done isn't what makes it fascinating. The entertainment isn't in what actually does happen. It is what is presented as happening. It's how it's presented. And in that regard, Geller is easily one of the best. Even though he cowers before better magicians and those more clever than him, his presentation is so stellar that some people are so convinced of his psychic abilities that they still believe despite his every trick being debunked.
It's like Geller realized instead of taking what was at the time such an unusual act and going further in magic he could be a cult leader instead.

 

[Mock Turtle]

There is no arguing with someone who WANTS to hold a certain position. Evidence and witnesses aren't going to be outwardly accepted once the heart is set on a certain view of things but internally they must start to doubt themselves.

George, have a looky here - a mirror.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So your source is 'The Straight Dope'? With first sentence: By the sheer force of his powerful mind — powerful, that is, compared to those of the dopes who bought his line of baloney.

OK. Well I've been on this for decades and everything I've seen and digested does not have a neat link.

The Straight Dope is a skeptic site. That you do not like it does not bode well for you. It beats your unattributed quotes all hollow.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Im surprised he even has any shows. His tricks can be learned in numerous beginners books for magic, he doesn't step it up, mix it up, or apply the concepts in other ways, amd he doesn't even have a good gimmick or presentation of his tricks. I am very convinced he knows the tricks but not the principles and concepts of magic because of this. Ive known unknown amateurs who are better at magic. Because they know magic and dont do many out of the box tricks.
Considering that, it's no wonder Blaine was duped.

My husband can do his levitating trick even better than Blaine does it. (Of course, that's not saying all that much ).

 

[SkepticThinker]

Here's another one

The bends in metal objects (made by Geller) could not have been made by ordinary manual means.

Dr Albert Ducrocq. Telemetry Laboratory, Foch Hospital Suren, France.

There's a few more quotes I've seen but I am sure you would show unyielding resistance to all of them.

In the end we each have to look in the mirror and decide who is unbiased towards the facts.

"My uncle levitated off the ground and it was amazing. He's magical, Aunty."
-My Niece referring to my husband

 

[George-ananda]

"My uncle levitated off the ground and it was amazing. He's magical, Aunty."
-My Niece referring to my husband

I can make no sense of that post or what it had to do with my post.

 

[firedragon]

James Randi (1928─2020) has left the building.

One of the great skeptics, and a sworn enemy of frauds and deceivers.

No one ever collected the prize he offered for a satisfactory demonstration of paranormal powers, contact with spirits, existence of ghosts, and so on (the terms of the test to be agreed in advance). Even when it rose to a million bucks, no one collected.

Not a perfect human at times, but intelligent and fearless.

More here and here.

Did he pass away? Oh I didn’t know that. One of my most favorite skeptics. Did he pass away? Or am I reading you wrong?

 

[blü 2]

Did he pass away? Oh I didn’t know that. One of my most favorite skeptics. Did he pass away? Or am I reading you wrong?

Yes, his death was reported just a day or two before I started this thread. Still, 92 years isn't so bad.

 

[firedragon]

Yes, his death was reported just a day or two before I started this thread. Still, 92 years isn't so bad.

Yeah of course its not bad. Just that it came as a shock. For maybe around two decades I have been a fan of James Randi. Wonder what happened to his partner who had that immigration problem.

 

[blü 2]

Yeah of course its not bad. Just that it came as a shock. For maybe around two decades I have been a fan of James Randi. Wonder what happened to his partner who had that immigration problem.

No news on that one, sorry, but maybe the net can help?

 

[firedragon]

No news on that one, sorry, but maybe the net can help?

Sure sure. Thank you.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I can make no sense of that post or what it had to do with my post.

It means that quotes from people who have been duped by magic tricks don't hold much weight in determining whether magic has actually occurred or exists.

 

[George-ananda]

It means that quotes from people who have been duped by magic tricks don't hold much weight in determining whether magic has actually occurred or exists.

Even the sneakiest slight of hand magician can not produce:

The bends in metal objects (made by Geller) could not have been made by ordinary manual means.

Dr Albert Ducrocq. Telemetry Laboratory, Foch Hospital Suren, France.

That was my point. Let me add:

I tested Uri myself under laboratory-controlled conditions and saw with my own eyes the bending of a key which was not touched by Geller at any time. There was a group of people present during the experiment who all witnessed the key bending in eleven seconds to an angle of thirty degrees. Afterwards we tested the key in a scientific laboratory using devices such as electron microscopes and X-rays and found that there was no chemical, manual or mechanical forces involved in the bending of the key.

Professor Helmut Hoffmann. Department of Electrical Engineering, Technical University of Vienna, Austria.


I would think a skeptical thinker (which I consider myself to be) would be skeptical that what Geller did was just slight of hand.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Even the sneakiest slight of hand magician can not produce:

The bends in metal objects (made by Geller) could not have been made by ordinary manual means.

Dr Albert Ducrocq. Telemetry Laboratory, Foch Hospital Suren, France.

That was my point. Let me add:

I tested Uri myself under laboratory-controlled conditions and saw with my own eyes the bending of a key which was not touched by Geller at any time. There was a group of people present during the experiment who all witnessed the key bending in eleven seconds to an angle of thirty degrees. Afterwards we tested the key in a scientific laboratory using devices such as electron microscopes and X-rays and found that there was no chemical, manual or mechanical forces involved in the bending of the key.

Professor Helmut Hoffmann. Department of Electrical Engineering, Technical University of Vienna, Austria.

Sure they can. And have. Obviously.

I would think a skeptical thinker (which I consider myself to be) would be skeptical that what Geller did was just slight of hand.

I guess you missed my point.

Quotes from incredulous people who can't figure out a magic trick are not evidence of supernatural goings-on. At best, it's evidence that the person simply doesn't understand the magic trick.

I've seen both Penn & Teller and David Copperfield live ...

Penn & Teller seemingly read my husband's mind after randomly picking him out from the crowd by randomly throwing a ball into the crowd that my husband happened to catch. We couldn't understand how they did it and we were as amazed as everyone else. Shortly afterward, Penn & Teller explained exactly how they did the trick and demonstrated how easily people can be duped by such things. I wouldn't have ever been able to guess how they did it, unless they had told us.

David Copperfield pulled me randomly from the audience and presented me with a paper flower that I apparently was able to magically move just by holding my finger up in the air, but never actually touching the flower. Then he threw the flower in the air where it caught on fire and turned into a real rose. My husband (along with others) was chosen from the crowd, pulled on the stage and the whole crowd of them seemingly levitated, all at once. It was pretty cool. That is, until my husband told me how the trick was done, with them all being in on it, of course.

Things like this always look and seem amazingly impossible, but then when we find out how they're done, it turns out the explanations are actually rather mundane and seemingly obvious. We don't need to turn to supernatural causation unless we have actual evidence that any such thing exists. We don't have that right now so I don't see how we can turn to supernatural anything.

 

[George-ananda]

Sure they can. And have. Obviously.



I guess you missed my point.

Quotes from incredulous people who can't figure out a magic trick are not evidence of supernatural goings-on. At best, it's evidence that the person simply doesn't understand the magic trick.

I've seen both Penn & Teller and David Copperfield live ...

Penn & Teller seemingly read my husband's mind after randomly picking him out from the crowd by randomly throwing a ball into the crowd that my husband happened to catch. We couldn't understand how they did it and we were as amazed as everyone else. Shortly afterward, Penn & Teller explained exactly how they did the trick and demonstrated how easily people can be duped by such things. I wouldn't have ever been able to guess how they did it, unless they had told us.

David Copperfield pulled me randomly from the audience and presented me with a paper flower that I apparently was able to magically move just by holding my finger up in the air, but never actually touching the flower. Then he threw the flower in the air where it caught on fire and turned into a real rose. My husband (along with others) was chosen from the crowd, pulled on the stage and the whole crowd of them seemingly levitated, all at once. It was pretty cool. That is, until my husband told me how the trick was done, with them all being in on it, of course.

Things like this always look and seem amazingly impossible, but then when we find out how they're done, it turns out the explanations are actually rather mundane and seemingly obvious. We don't need to turn to supernatural causation unless we have actual evidence that any such thing exists. We don't have that right now so I don't see how we can turn to supernatural anything.

I think you are still missing (intentionally?) my point. A slight of hand expert might be able to fool someone but that does not explain the microscopic testing results showing a mysterious cause for the bending.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I think you are still missing (intentionally?) my point. A slight of hand expert might be able to fool someone but that does not explain the microscopic testing results showing a mysterious cause for the bending.

So? "Mysterious cause" doesn't equate to "supernatural cause."

Has anyone ever even demonstrated/measured that there is a supernatural anything in the first place? No. So we can't attribute anything to it anyway.

You're appealing to very specific individuals who couldn't figure out how a trick was done. And I say, so what? That doesn't mean nobody could or would ever figure out how the trick was done.

Just because you don't have an explanation for something doesn't mean you can just make one up.