Who are the Proud Boys? Start here.

[Tambourine]

Thats fine. If your one of those who don't see it, you likely never will.

You could try to support your claims with evidence, or even just concrete examples.

If it's so obvious then it should be trivial for you to come up with a single example for leftists calling for the extermination of White people or the forceful purging of conservatives. You know, the way radical right-wingers have publically called for ethnostates or the abuse and forced deportation of foreigners, or violence against leftists.

 

[Tambourine]

He better change that name before Odin hurls his spear at him. You'd think those idiots would learn from the last fools who misused Germanic religion and heritage, and literally went down in flames (the Nazis).

Arguably, the entire point of Neonazism is to not learn from history, or reality for that matter.

 

[ecco]

Yes. That the left is in reality, is not any better than the right and vice versa.

Condemning something they also happen to do themselves and fall into denial over it.

That is not articulating your point. That is, once again, asserting your unsubstantiated opinion.

You've made several posts since I first asked you to substantiate your opinionated comments. You have not been able to do so.

That should tell you that your comments are without substance.

 

[Twilight Hue]

That is not articulating your point. That is, once again, asserting your unsubstantiated opinion.

You've made several posts since I first asked you to substantiate your opinionated comments. You have not been able to do so.

That should tell you that your comments are without substance.

OK.

 

[Stevicus]

And is this something you personally are opposed to?

Are you against the idea of people of colour moving into neighbourhoods that have traditionally been “white”? Are you against promoting diversity?

I found an article which illustrates some of what he is saying, suggesting that progressive white liberals might also be a part of the problem: White liberals' dangerous hypocrisy on race - CNN

In 2020, White support for the Black Lives Matter movement is at an all-time high. People are buying so many books on antiracism that booksellers are having trouble keeping them in stock. A commentator said the George Floyd protests that erupted this spring may lead to "audacious steps to address systemic racial inequality — bold, sweeping reparative action."

Yet any attack against entrenched racism will run into one of the most formidable barriers for true change: Good White people.

The media loves to focus on the easy villains who get busted on cell phone videos acting like racists. But some scholars and activists say good White people -- the progressive folks in Blue states, the kind who would have voted for Obama a third time if they could -- are some of the most tenacious supporters of systemic racism.

Many are such dangerous opponents of racial progress because their targets can't see their racism coming -- and often, neither can they. Scholars say these people are often motived by unconscious racism they are loathe to admit and disguise their racial hostility with innocuous-sounding terms like "neighborhood schools" and "property values."

There can't be real change until White people are willing to give up some power and resources where they live, says Matthew Delmont, author of "Why Busing Failed: Race, Media, and the National Resistance to School Desegregation."

"The sign that change is real as opposed to symbolic is that people are making real changes to things close to them in their own backyards, such as supporting more affordable housing in their neighborhood, or programs that would integrate schools," says Delmont, a history professor at Dartmouth College.
But many Whites, he says, have never been willing to take that step.

"Broadly speaking, White Americans and other people with socio-economic status have to be willing to give up something to have a more just and equitable society."

I think this cuts to the chase of what the real problem is and why America is still having racial problems after all this time. It's easy for white people to proclaim how they're big supporters of Black Lives Matter, racial justice, integration...just as long as it's "Not In My Back Yard."

"By and large they would say they weren't racists, and they're not like the racists in the South, and that they were in fact liberal and voted for Democrats," Delmont says. "But when it came to their own backyard, they had a different perspective."

As the article points out, the Supreme Court no longer allows integration plans based on race, but on socio-economic factors:

Their efforts failed, though. Howard County adopted the plan in November of last year. The plan is based on socio-economic integration (the Supreme Court no longer allows integration plans based on race), but it will change the racial makeup of some schools because many of the poor students who will be sent to more affluent, whiter schools are Black or brown.

Flowers says he is still angry over the racial tensions the episode exposed. He also was shocked by the resistance because Howard County includes Columbia, one of the nation's first planned integrated communities. He also says some of the opponents of the school plan were Black.

"The surprise was the negative response, the vitriol, the resistance from not just White families but also other ethnic groups," he says. "They all came out strongly against the idea of having their families in schools with African American children."

But it seems clear that, as long as class segregation exists, so will racial segregation.

So how does housing segregation persist decades after such laws as the 1968 Fair Housing Act, which outlawed the renting, buying and financing of homes based on race, religion, national origin or gender?

Two words: zoning laws.

Political leaders can still prevent Black and brown people from moving into Whiter, more affluent communities by using exclusionary zoning laws that prevent the building of low-income housing or apartments, scholars and activists say.

"There are people in the town of Princeton who will have a Black Lives Matter sign on their front lawn and a sign saying 'We love our Muslim neighbors,' but oppose changing zoning policies that say you have to have an acre and a half per house," he says.

"That means, 'We love our Muslim neighbors, as long as they're millionaires.'"

So, a lot of the problem is not just rooted in openly racist white people behaving badly, but also in the mindsets of white liberals who still want to keep their affluent neighborhoods and keep the lower classes out. The article refers to a book called "Good White People: The Problem with Middle-class White Anti-Racism."

Still, many White people have a talent for avoiding those choices, says Shannon Sullivan, author of "Good White People: The Problem with Middle-class White Anti-Racism."

It also mentions something I've noticed for quite some time, the propensity of "Good White People" to blame lower class white people from sticks for the entire problem, thus reinforcing the notion that it's more of a class issue than anything else.

Some do it by blaming lower-class Whites for ongoing racism. They embrace a lifestyle of "White Middle-Class goodness" -- saying the right things about race and avoiding overt acts of racial hostility -- but use this goodness as a mechanism for deflecting responsibility and protecting their White status.

Many progressive Whites often aren't aware of this deflection, Sullivan says. They don't set out to intentionally exclude people of color from their public schools or neighborhoods. In her book, she says many of these attempts to protect their status "operate unconsciously but they nonetheless exist and are effective." One of the most popular deflection strategies is calling for racial reconciliation, Sullivan says.

"Reconciliation is about White people not feeling uncomfortable," she says. "They wouldn't characterize it this way, but they just want to not feel uncomfortable and it makes them not feel like they're good if there's some Black people that are angry out there."

As Americans debate now about how to go forward, Sullivan says she prefers that her fellow White people focus on another word.

"I want to hear about justice," she says. I want to hear about things that restore communities that have been destroyed. I don't want to hear about how we make White people feel comfortable again."

Justice, though, often means giving up some power or sharing resources. That's a step many good White Americans have been unwilling to take. When was the last time you heard anyone talk openly about pursuing integration? Such racial optimism almost sounds quaint, like a relic from another era.

Ultimately, the problem rests with upper class white people who are unwilling to share power and resources. This is the crux of the issue as I have observed for the past 30+ years. They've been setting the agenda and controlling the narrative for all these years, so it's not something they can blame on white Southerners or Confederate flags or hillbillies from Appalachia. They've been in denial for all this time, not understanding that they're a larger part of the problem than they realize.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So you don't support protesters? Because the Proud Boys seem like peaceful protesters to me, until militant left-wing radicals show up on the scene and start bullying them.

Which protestors have guns?

FYI: The Proud Boys are the ones who "show up on the scene" with weapons, all dressed up in military gear, harrassing and attacking people with bats and other weapons.

A Far-Right Group Called The "Proud Boys" Were Seen Beating Protesters In Oregon
Hundreds gather in Portland for far-right Proud Boys rally
Bicycle riders ensnared by police and Proud Boys during weekend protests - BikePortland.org
Proud Boys: Clashes break out at rally in Michigan - CNN

 

[Cooky]

Which protestors have guns?

FYI: The Proud Boys are the ones who "show up on the scene" with weapons, all dressed up in military gear, harrassing and attacking people with bats and other weapons.

A Far-Right Group Called The "Proud Boys" Were Seen Beating Protesters In Oregon
Hundreds gather in Portland for far-right Proud Boys rally
Bicycle riders ensnared by police and Proud Boys during weekend protests - BikePortland.org
Proud Boys: Clashes break out at rally in Michigan - CNN

Who cares. I can cherry pick tons of videos showing BLM and antifa attacking Trump supporters.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Who cares. I can cherry pick tons of videos showing BLM and antifa attacking Trump supporters.

You can, eh?
I'm still waiting for you to point out which protestors (that aren't Proud Boys) are carrying around guns and bats.
But you don't care, so ...

You made an assertion. An assertion that I just countered with evidence.

.... And you don't care.

 

[Cooky]

You can, eh?
I'm still waiting for you to point out which protestors (that aren't Proud Boys) are carrying around guns and bats.
But you don't care, so ...

You made an assertion. An assertion that I just countered with evidence.

.... And you don't care.

Are you saying that BLM and Antifa have never picked fights with peaceful Poud Boy protesters? Or what is it you're claiming you countered with evidence? I'm not understanding...

Do I need to literally provide links to the videos of peaceful Proud Boys being bullied?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Are you saying that BLM and Antifa have never picked fights with peaceful Poud Boy protesters? Or what is it you're claiming you countered with evidence? I'm not understanding...

Do I need to literally provide links to the videos?

I'm saying exactly what I said.

Boy, you're acting just as slippery as Trump did when Chris Wallace asked him to denounce white supremacy.

 

[Tambourine]

Some people just can't admit their real political beliefs lest they be ostracised by polite society, so they tend to use euphemisms, dogwhistles, and cryptic statements that seemingly mean nothing substantial.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Really, then why don't they claim they are? Maybe we should show more respect to them..? Rather than calling them names?

Does "prejudiced bungholes" work better for you?

 

[ecco]

You've made several posts since I first asked you to substantiate your opinionated comments. You have not been able to do so.

That should tell you that your comments are without substance.

OK.

===========================================

Do I need to literally provide links to the videos of peaceful Proud Boys being bullied?

Boy, you're acting just as slippery as Trump did when Chris Wallace asked him to denounce white supremacy.

=====================================

I just went through a similar dialogue with Twilight Hue.

"Antifa and BLM are the violent ones, yadda, yadda yadda."
"Source?"

Got nuttin.

Some people just have to believe the folks on the other side are as bad as they are.

 

[Cooky]

===========================================




=====================================

I just went through a similar dialogue with Twilight Hue.

"Antifa and BLM are the violent ones, yadda, yadda yadda."
"Source?"

Got nuttin.

Some people just have to believe the folks on the other side are as bad as they are.

Yeah right, nice stories...

...I'm not doing your homework for you.

 

[Tambourine]

Yeah right, nice stories...

...I'm not doing your homework for you.

Have you met any radical leftists yet, Cooky?

 

[Twilight Hue]

===========================================




=====================================

I just went through a similar dialogue with Twilight Hue.

"Antifa and BLM are the violent ones, yadda, yadda yadda."
"Source?"

Got nuttin.

Some people just have to believe the folks on the other side are as bad as they are.

William van Spronson

Conner Betts

Michael Forest Reinoehl

Blake David Hampe

 

[Twilight Hue]

Yeah right, nice stories...

...I'm not doing your homework for you.

Post #176 covers it. @ecco 's getting overconfident.

 

[Cooky]

Have you met any radical leftists yet, Cooky?

They attacked me at the gas station... Tried to open my car doors because I was white in my own neighborhood.

 

[SkepticThinker]

===========================================




=====================================

I just went through a similar dialogue with Twilight Hue.

"Antifa and BLM are the violent ones, yadda, yadda yadda."
"Source?"

Got nuttin.

Some people just have to believe the folks on the other side are as bad as they are.

It sure seems that way.

 

[Tambourine]

They attacked me at the gas station... Tried to open my car doors because I was white in my own neighborhood.

How did you know they were leftist? Did they wear the Antifa uniform?