Why must one know Arabic to know the Qur’an? Why is language that important?

[firedragon]

Why must one know Arabic to know the Qur’an? Why is language that important?

I am writing this to create some awareness because a lot of people misunderstand this statement that Muslims make about the language of Arabic and the Qur’an. I don’t advocate the idea that knowing Arabic is fundamental, but its important. At least a person must have the ability to empathise with the language in order to open mindedly understand how the language speaks.

I will give an example from a very famous verse in the Qur’an a lot of people intentionally misrepresent with no effort to empathise with the language.

The verse 78:33 speaks of companions with swelling breasts. When you read the translation it looks perverse. But reading it in Arabic gives a completely different picture and the only proper way to translate it is as “Swelling Breasts”. The interpretation is very different.

The word “Kawaib” in Arabic means “ripe”. It’s the age of womanhood where a girl is grown up. The phrase does not indicate large breasts as an English reader would read it. This simply signifies the age.

An example from an Asian language would be the word “Lamissi”. Lamissi is a word used to address a grown girl of maritable age. But the real meaning of the word is “Lama Issi” where “Lama” means “breast” and issi means lifted or grown. This has no perverse connotation whatsoever. It is a simple word to indicate an age. Just like the word “Illan Dhariya”. Illan means “to ask or require”. Dhariya means “girl”. So Illan Dhariya means “asking for a girl or woman”. This is referring to a young man of maritable age. He is not a teen anymore but a young man. But when you translate the word into English it seems ridiculous as if he is a pervert looking for women.

This is the reason one must develop the ability to empathise with a language. Those who don’t even try to empathise with a language have an agenda, and others who listen to these people will go home with a huge misunderstanding.

Another example would be to say seven in Arabic. Yes it means “seven” when you say “Saba” (with an ain) but what is communicated is not the number seven. Lets say we say “I done this dozens of times” it means someone has done it many times. I would say “buy a dozen” I am not really saying to buy exactly 12 in number but just to get a bunch. Not too much, not one or two, but enough. Like when you say “I told you a million times” I am not saying I exactly said this same thing 1,000,000 times but just that I have said it many times. But the translation would read “seven”. If you don’t translate it that way it seems dishonest.

There are millions of examples like this, and with that statement I don’t mean exactly 1,000,000, I simply mean there are many.

I would like to see views of respectable members and of course any clarification is welcome.

Peace.

 

[ecco]

I am writing this to create some awareness because a lot of people misunderstand this statement that Muslims make about the language of Arabic and the Qur’an.

If people with a limited knowledge of Arabic read the Koran, then there could easily be misunderstandings. However, most people get their understanding of the Koran from translations by people whose first language is Arabic.

Nevertheless, the translations may indeed suffer the same problems that any current interpretation of any earlier documents suffer. That problem is not exclusive to Arabic. But ...

(emphasis mine)

Quran translations - Wikipedia
The task of translation of the Qurʻan is not an easy one; some native Arab speakers will confirm that some Qurʻanic passages are difficult to understand even in the original Arabic script. A part of this is the innate difficulty of any translation; in Arabic, as in other languages, a single word can have a variety of meanings.[2] There is always an element of human judgement involved in understanding and translating a text. This factor is made more complex by the fact that the usage of words has changed a great deal between classical and modern Arabic. As a result, even Qurʻanic verses which seem perfectly clear to native Arab speakers accustomed to modern vocabulary and usage may not represent the original meaning of the verse.
​

So, the problem is apparent for Arabic native spekers as well.

 

[firedragon]

If people with a limited knowledge of Arabic read the Koran, then there could easily be misunderstandings. However, most people get their understanding of the Koran from translations by people whose first language is Arabic.

Nevertheless, the translations may indeed suffer the same problems that any current interpretation of any earlier documents suffer. That problem is not exclusive to Arabic. But ...

(emphasis mine)

Quran translations - Wikipedia
The task of translation of the Qurʻan is not an easy one; some native Arab speakers will confirm that some Qurʻanic passages are difficult to understand even in the original Arabic script. A part of this is the innate difficulty of any translation; in Arabic, as in other languages, a single word can have a variety of meanings.[2] There is always an element of human judgement involved in understanding and translating a text. This factor is made more complex by the fact that the usage of words has changed a great deal between classical and modern Arabic. As a result, even Qurʻanic verses which seem perfectly clear to native Arab speakers accustomed to modern vocabulary and usage may not represent the original meaning of the verse.
​

So, the problem is apparent for Arabic native spekers as well.

Of course. Because the native speaker does not speak Fusha At Thurath, and everyone knows this. A little similar to knowing Koine Greek to translate the New Testament. Now lets say the word Sperma, it means sperm. But God is not putting his sperm in people when the Bible uses this word to speak to people and say they are all children of God if they follow his teachings, sperma is referring to "Seed". Gods seed is in you.

But yet, as an arabic speaker you will see it very differently in comparison to reading it in another language. Also you missed the point brother. Most important quality of a person is to have the ability to "Empathise with the language". Humility, and without personal agenda.

Peace.

 

[exchemist]

Why must one know Arabic to know the Qur’an? Why is language that important?

I am writing this to create some awareness because a lot of people misunderstand this statement that Muslims make about the language of Arabic and the Qur’an. I don’t advocate the idea that knowing Arabic is fundamental, but its important. At least a person must have the ability to empathise with the language in order to open mindedly understand how the language speaks.

I will give an example from a very famous verse in the Qur’an a lot of people intentionally misrepresent with no effort to empathise with the language.

The verse 78:33 speaks of companions with swelling breasts. When you read the translation it looks perverse. But reading it in Arabic gives a completely different picture and the only proper way to translate it is as “Swelling Breasts”. The interpretation is very different.

The word “Kawaib” in Arabic means “ripe”. It’s the age of womanhood where a girl is grown up. The phrase does not indicate large breasts as an English reader would read it. This simply signifies the age.

An example from an Asian language would be the word “Lamissi”. Lamissi is a word used to address a grown girl of maritable age. But the real meaning of the word is “Lama Issi” where “Lama” means “breast” and issi means lifted or grown. This has no perverse connotation whatsoever. It is a simple word to indicate an age. Just like the word “Illan Dhariya”. Illan means “to ask or require”. Dhariya means “girl”. So Illan Dhariya means “asking for a girl or woman”. This is referring to a young man of maritable age. He is not a teen anymore but a young man. But when you translate the word into English it seems ridiculous as if he is a pervert looking for women.

This is the reason one must develop the ability to empathise with a language. Those who don’t even try to empathise with a language have an agenda, and others who listen to these people will go home with a huge misunderstanding.

Another example would be to say seven in Arabic. Yes it means “seven” when you say “Saba” (with an ain) but what is communicated is not the number seven. Lets say we say “I done this dozens of times” it means someone has done it many times. I would say “buy a dozen” I am not really saying to buy exactly 12 in number but just to get a bunch. Not too much, not one or two, but enough. Like when you say “I told you a million times” I am not saying I exactly said this same thing 1,000,000 times but just that I have said it many times. But the translation would read “seven”. If you don’t translate it that way it seems dishonest.

There are millions of examples like this, and with that statement I don’t mean exactly 1,000,000, I simply mean there are many.

I would like to see views of respectable members and of course any clarification is welcome.

Peace.

When I was in Dubai I watched a TV series in English, teaching a bit about to Koran to non-Muslims. The speaker would read the Arabic and then translate and interpret the meaning. I formed the strong impression that it is written in poetry. The rhythm and cadence of the works in Arabic seemed calming and almost hypnotic. I feel sure it loses a great deal in translation.

 

[firedragon]

When I was in Dubai I watched a TV series in English, teaching a bit about to Koran to non-Muslims. The speaker would read the Arabic and then translate and interpret the meaning. I formed the strong impression that it is written in poetry. The rhythm and cadence of the works in Arabic seemed calming and almost hypnotic. I feel sure it loses a great deal in translation.

Brother, a lot of people would not believe how much is lost in translation. And when we say this people take it very offensively and directly call dishonesty.

Anyway, you are right. The rhythmic style its written in is quite amazing. Thats probably one of the reasons memorisation is quite easy.

Cheers.

 

[stvdv]

Why must one know Arabic to know the Qur’an? Why is language that important?

I agree.
Only when one knows "Arabic language" one can have perfect knowledge of the Koran
To understand the Wisdom of the Koran one needs the "language of the Heart"

 

[sun rise]

The problem of translation is well known to translators. Often the translation says more about the translator than the original author.

Even honest translators can get stuck. Take the word "light". I could use it in a poem and expect it to simultaneously invoke illumination and weight. Someone translating that into a language where there is no similar word is stuck because either you pick weight or illumination or do a clunky translation to tell the reader that this poetic expression was designed to invoke both. And that of course destroys the experience of reading poetry.

There are also sections of the Quran with wildly different translations. 17:104 is a good one. In one translation, we learn that the State of Israel came into existence by Allah's will as a sign of the end times. Other translations are wildly different. Even verb tense, past/future, is different.

The best that I, as a non-Quranic Arabic (or modern Arabic) reader can do is to look at several different translations to see if they are in rough agreement.

 

[firedragon]

The problem of translation is well known to translators. Often the translation says more about the translator than the original author.

Even honest translators can get stuck. Take the word "light". I could use it in a poem and expect it to simultaneously invoke illumination and weight. Someone translating that into a language where there is no similar word is stuck because either you pick weight or illumination or do a clunky translation to tell the reader that this poetic expression was designed to invoke both. And that of course destroys the experience of reading poetry.

There are also sections of the Quran with wildly different translations. 17:104 is a good one. In one translation, we learn that the State of Israel came into existence by Allah's will as a sign of the end times. Other translations are wildly different. Even verb tense, past/future, is different.

The best that I, as a non-Quranic Arabic (or modern Arabic) reader can do is to look at several different translations to see if they are in rough agreement.

Ah, you are speaking about Lafaf. Yeah you're right, difficult to translate it. If one sees a direct translation it sounds a bit crazy. This is like a mix, but then its about people so it would mean a set of people who came from various nations. Now that sentence is too long and if all the Quran words are translated with such lengthy statements its gonna be a never ending read.

But I completely agree with you. What you said is very sound in my opinion. thank you.

 

[exchemist]

Brother, a lot of people would not believe how much is lost in translation. And when we say this people take it very offensively and directly call dishonesty.

Anyway, you are right. The rhythmic style its written in is quite amazing. Thats probably one of the reasons memorisation is quite easy.

Cheers.

Yes. What was striking was how unclear the translated meanings seemed to be. I found that part of the TV programmes disappointing. But the Arabic sounded wonderful.

 

[firedragon]

Yes. What was striking was how unclear the translated meanings seemed to be. I found that part of the TV programmes disappointing. But the Arabic sounded wonderful.

What are the differences you saw?

 

[sojourner]

Why must one know Arabic to know the Qur’an? Why is language that important?

I am writing this to create some awareness because a lot of people misunderstand this statement that Muslims make about the language of Arabic and the Qur’an. I don’t advocate the idea that knowing Arabic is fundamental, but its important. At least a person must have the ability to empathise with the language in order to open mindedly understand how the language speaks.

I will give an example from a very famous verse in the Qur’an a lot of people intentionally misrepresent with no effort to empathise with the language.

The verse 78:33 speaks of companions with swelling breasts. When you read the translation it looks perverse. But reading it in Arabic gives a completely different picture and the only proper way to translate it is as “Swelling Breasts”. The interpretation is very different.

The word “Kawaib” in Arabic means “ripe”. It’s the age of womanhood where a girl is grown up. The phrase does not indicate large breasts as an English reader would read it. This simply signifies the age.

An example from an Asian language would be the word “Lamissi”. Lamissi is a word used to address a grown girl of maritable age. But the real meaning of the word is “Lama Issi” where “Lama” means “breast” and issi means lifted or grown. This has no perverse connotation whatsoever. It is a simple word to indicate an age. Just like the word “Illan Dhariya”. Illan means “to ask or require”. Dhariya means “girl”. So Illan Dhariya means “asking for a girl or woman”. This is referring to a young man of maritable age. He is not a teen anymore but a young man. But when you translate the word into English it seems ridiculous as if he is a pervert looking for women.

This is the reason one must develop the ability to empathise with a language. Those who don’t even try to empathise with a language have an agenda, and others who listen to these people will go home with a huge misunderstanding.

Another example would be to say seven in Arabic. Yes it means “seven” when you say “Saba” (with an ain) but what is communicated is not the number seven. Lets say we say “I done this dozens of times” it means someone has done it many times. I would say “buy a dozen” I am not really saying to buy exactly 12 in number but just to get a bunch. Not too much, not one or two, but enough. Like when you say “I told you a million times” I am not saying I exactly said this same thing 1,000,000 times but just that I have said it many times. But the translation would read “seven”. If you don’t translate it that way it seems dishonest.

There are millions of examples like this, and with that statement I don’t mean exactly 1,000,000, I simply mean there are many.

I would like to see views of respectable members and of course any clarification is welcome.

Peace.

Language and culture go hand-in-hand. All religious writings come from a particular culture, because religion is a cultural expression. It's not only important to know Arabic in order to gain a fuller understanding of Koranic wisdom, it's equally important to have a knowledge of Hebrew and Koine' Greek in order to fully appreciate the cultural and linguistic nuances of the Bible.

Spiritual wisdom is a nuanced thing; it's not normally just "in your face." That's because spirituality and theology are nuanced. The reason they're nuanced is because they embrace human creativity and human intuition, which are likewise nuanced. One can't just lift a thing that has deep roots in cultural expression and transplant it into a foreign culture and expect it to make sense.

I believe that Jewish young people and adult converts are required to learn at least some Hebrew as part of their spiritual formation. I don't know, but I'd be willing to bet that Muslim students are required to learn some Arabic. It would be advantageous if more Christian students were required to learn some Hebrew and Greek, too.

 

[exchemist]

What are the differences you saw?

It's not differences. I never learnt classical Arabic, I'm afraid. So I listened to the sound of the words without understanding them - and still found them powerful, somehow. But the translation and explanation that followed always seemed to be a let-down. This was many years ago now, in the 1980s, so I can't recall specific instances. But I do remember the insight I gained into the the power of the spoken Arabic.

 

[Terry Sampson]

I would like to see views of respectable members

I cannot claim to be a respectable member; however, ... the topic of language interests me; variations within a language and between languages intrigue me; and the issue of "religious language" fascinates me.

I recently came across Bassam Saeh's book: "The Miraculous Language of the Qur'an: Evidence of Divine Origin (June 1, 2015), the Preface of which opens as follows:

• The Qur’an’s Infallibility
  
  The fact that the Qur’an is a literary masterpiece is beyond debate. The fact that it is a unique and matchless perfection of language, style, eloquence, and power, which the 7th century peoples of the Arabian peninsula had never encountered before, and have not encountered since, is also a matter beyond dispute. What is debated however is whether it is miraculous or not. In other words whether it is of this dimension or that of a divine other. Evidence of that divine authority is surfacing on multi-faceted and ever increasing levels of knowledge as humanity evolves and continues its centuries long assessment of the scripture. But for the purposes of this study, it is a particular element of the Qur’an’s words, hitherto not fully grasped, which is brought to our attention attesting to the fact that it is a linguistic miracle of divine origin.
  Differentiating Qur’anic language from human genius is another way of clearly stating that the Prophet was simply a channel to deliver God’s final message, and that not even the most gifted minds, or those exceptionally talented in the arts of literature, oratory, and/or poetry, could produce a single chapter “like unto it”. This confident Qur’anic assertion to prove its statement false is note not only a wholly intellectual appeal and an open challenge to critics, drawing attention incidentally to the importance of deductive logic centuries ahead of its time, but also fantastic by the sheer simplicity with which it presents this greatest of challenges.
  What has been the response? Two important facts with regards to the Qur’anic challenge have stood the test of time and remain a thorny problem for those who acknowledge its linguistic authority but cannot resolve its divine origins. These are integral to any debate but often conveniently overlooked by critics:
  • Not a single mistake, of any type, has been found in its over six thousand verses (not for lack of trying).
  • Despite many historical attempts at emulation, some in outright mockery of the Prophet, and others genuine by leading authorities in Arabic (keeping in mind the Prophet’s era witnessed the finest exponents of the Arabic language the world has ever seen), to this day the whole exercise has been little more than utterly futile and embarrassing.
  
  And we are not simply referring to language at this point because whether for the first time or after countless readings one would be hard put to define any one factor that makes the Qur’an utterly unique.
  One of the qualifications of the Qur’an’s uniqueness is inimitability, and for the purposes of this study it is the inimitability of the Qur’an’s language, marking one significant aspect of its divine authorship, and hence inherent miraculousness, which is analyzed – with the express understanding of course that language is being studied to gain a deeper appreciation of the Qur’an’s core message. In essence the ideas, perspectives, and world the Qur’an plunges man into, and the heightened sense of moral virtue and sincere faith – the filters of self-appraisal through which it asks man to assess his actions and very motives by – are powerfully significant in terms of the alertness with which we are to understand our reality and place in the cosmos as well as the final Judgment which is to come once the illusion of this life and all physical existence passes away.
  Throughout history, Muslim scholars have expounded on the aesthetic elements of the Qur’an’s miraculous language as well as other literary factors, content, and astounding scientific verses. However, according to the author no one has tried to elucidate on what he terms a secret aspect of its language, something which due to familiarity with the Revelation we have given little thought to with the passage of time. And that secret is simply this: granted the Qur’an was revealed in the Arabic language, yet, at the same time it was an Arabic which was new, stunning the Arabs who first heard it. How it was new is the subject of this work.
  Original and early Muslim audiences therefore responded to the Qur’an’s words, sounds, rhythms etc. in a manner consistent with a deeper appreciation of its beauty and majesty. Something which our modern ears, soothed by familiarity, and despite being surrounded by all manner of dictionaries and studies, are often at a loss to capture. The author attempts to remove this veil somewhat and introduce readers to the Qur’an anew, with fresh eyes bringing to life something of this wonder.
  Although the miraculous language of the Qur’an has been unquestionably accepted by Muslims, nevertheless a systematic study proving this belief through a methodical study of its language has to the best of the author’s knowledge not yet been undertaken. Thus, he attempts to prove scientifically, and through comparison between the Qur’anic language on the one hand, and the language of pre-Islamic poetry, the Prophet’s words (Hadith), and the language of the Arabs both past and present, on the other, that an important strand of the Qur’an’s linguistic miraculousness is the fact that this Arabic was completely new.
  The study attempts to empirically prove that the Arabs never knew this language before the Qur’an, and never could replicate it afterwards, while the language of the Prophet, despite its eloquence, was grasped and imitated, simply because it was first and foremost the language of a human being – one unfortunate outcome of this being the huge intermingling of genuine and forged Hadith. This has never happened to the Qur’an and will never happen to it, yet another testimony of the Qur’an being the word of God.

So, are you impressed by Saeh's words? I certainly was. So much so that I was hard pressed to come up with an analogy, ... until, that is, this came to me.

I have proof of the existence of God. He has given me that proof personally, by creating and causing to be born, through natural means, a perfect woman, and by bringing that woman and me together, leading us to be married, and granting us forty-two years together, so far. In and through my wife, I have been blessed far more than I deserve. There has never been a person, much less a woman, like her, and never will be.

Are you impressed by my words? I certainly am, and I hope my wife will be when I share them with her.

My point?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that Saeh's argument for the Qur'an being the word of God is that the Qur'an is perfect and inimitable, ... and Arabic. It's an interesting argument, to be sure. But I have a problem with it.

If the best proof of God is the perfect, inimitable, Arabic, stenographically recorded, word of God in the Arabic Qur'an, either God doesn't know English or He has nothing to say to English-speakers. Moreover, ... I suppose God isn't really interested in having obedient believers who are deaf unless and until they master the perfect, inimitable, Arabic of the Qur'an, no?

 

[sun rise]

It's not differences. I never learnt classical Arabic, I'm afraid. So I listened to the sound of the words without understanding them - and still found them powerful, somehow. But the translation and explanation that followed always seemed to be a let-down. This was many years ago now, in the 1980s, so I can't recall specific instances. But I do remember the insight I gained into the the power of the spoken Arabic.

That makes perfect sense to me. I can listen to a song in a language I don't understand and be moved by the sense of poetic expression and the power of the melody.

 

[firedragon]

I cannot claim to be a respectable member; however, ... the topic of language interests me; variations within a language and between languages intrigue me; and the issue of "religious language" fascinates me.

I recently came across Bassam Saeh's book: "The Miraculous Language of the Qur'an: Evidence of Divine Origin (June 1, 2015), the Preface of which opens as follows:

• The Qur’an’s Infallibility
  
  The fact that the Qur’an is a literary masterpiece is beyond debate. The fact that it is a unique and matchless perfection of language, style, eloquence, and power, which the 7th century peoples of the Arabian peninsula had never encountered before, and have not encountered since, is also a matter beyond dispute. What is debated however is whether it is miraculous or not. In other words whether it is of this dimension or that of a divine other. Evidence of that divine authority is surfacing on multi-faceted and ever increasing levels of knowledge as humanity evolves and continues its centuries long assessment of the scripture. But for the purposes of this study, it is a particular element of the Qur’an’s words, hitherto not fully grasped, which is brought to our attention attesting to the fact that it is a linguistic miracle of divine origin.
  Differentiating Qur’anic language from human genius is another way of clearly stating that the Prophet was simply a channel to deliver God’s final message, and that not even the most gifted minds, or those exceptionally talented in the arts of literature, oratory, and/or poetry, could produce a single chapter “like unto it”. This confident Qur’anic assertion to prove its statement false is note not only a wholly intellectual appeal and an open challenge to critics, drawing attention incidentally to the importance of deductive logic centuries ahead of its time, but also fantastic by the sheer simplicity with which it presents this greatest of challenges.
  What has been the response? Two important facts with regards to the Qur’anic challenge have stood the test of time and remain a thorny problem for those who acknowledge its linguistic authority but cannot resolve its divine origins. These are integral to any debate but often conveniently overlooked by critics:
  • Not a single mistake, of any type, has been found in its over six thousand verses (not for lack of trying).
  • Despite many historical attempts at emulation, some in outright mockery of the Prophet, and others genuine by leading authorities in Arabic (keeping in mind the Prophet’s era witnessed the finest exponents of the Arabic language the world has ever seen), to this day the whole exercise has been little more than utterly futile and embarrassing.
  
  And we are not simply referring to language at this point because whether for the first time or after countless readings one would be hard put to define any one factor that makes the Qur’an utterly unique.
  One of the qualifications of the Qur’an’s uniqueness is inimitability, and for the purposes of this study it is the inimitability of the Qur’an’s language, marking one significant aspect of its divine authorship, and hence inherent miraculousness, which is analyzed – with the express understanding of course that language is being studied to gain a deeper appreciation of the Qur’an’s core message. In essence the ideas, perspectives, and world the Qur’an plunges man into, and the heightened sense of moral virtue and sincere faith – the filters of self-appraisal through which it asks man to assess his actions and very motives by – are powerfully significant in terms of the alertness with which we are to understand our reality and place in the cosmos as well as the final Judgment which is to come once the illusion of this life and all physical existence passes away.
  Throughout history, Muslim scholars have expounded on the aesthetic elements of the Qur’an’s miraculous language as well as other literary factors, content, and astounding scientific verses. However, according to the author no one has tried to elucidate on what he terms a secret aspect of its language, something which due to familiarity with the Revelation we have given little thought to with the passage of time. And that secret is simply this: granted the Qur’an was revealed in the Arabic language, yet, at the same time it was an Arabic which was new, stunning the Arabs who first heard it. How it was new is the subject of this work.
  Original and early Muslim audiences therefore responded to the Qur’an’s words, sounds, rhythms etc. in a manner consistent with a deeper appreciation of its beauty and majesty. Something which our modern ears, soothed by familiarity, and despite being surrounded by all manner of dictionaries and studies, are often at a loss to capture. The author attempts to remove this veil somewhat and introduce readers to the Qur’an anew, with fresh eyes bringing to life something of this wonder.
  Although the miraculous language of the Qur’an has been unquestionably accepted by Muslims, nevertheless a systematic study proving this belief through a methodical study of its language has to the best of the author’s knowledge not yet been undertaken. Thus, he attempts to prove scientifically, and through comparison between the Qur’anic language on the one hand, and the language of pre-Islamic poetry, the Prophet’s words (Hadith), and the language of the Arabs both past and present, on the other, that an important strand of the Qur’an’s linguistic miraculousness is the fact that this Arabic was completely new.
  The study attempts to empirically prove that the Arabs never knew this language before the Qur’an, and never could replicate it afterwards, while the language of the Prophet, despite its eloquence, was grasped and imitated, simply because it was first and foremost the language of a human being – one unfortunate outcome of this being the huge intermingling of genuine and forged Hadith. This has never happened to the Qur’an and will never happen to it, yet another testimony of the Qur’an being the word of God.

So, are you impressed by Saeh's words? I certainly was. So much so that I was hard pressed to come up with an analogy, ... until, that is, this came to me.

I have proof of the existence of God. He has given me that proof personally, by creating and causing to be born, through natural means, a perfect woman, and by bringing that woman and me together, leading us to be married, and granting us forty-two years together, so far. In and through my wife, I have been blessed far more than I deserve. There has never been a person, much less a woman, like her, and never will be.

Are you impressed by my words? I certainly am, and I hope my wife will be when I share them with her.

My point?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that Saeh's argument for the Qur'an being the word of God is that the Qur'an is perfect and inimitable, ... and Arabic. It's an interesting argument, to be sure. But I have a problem with it.

If the best proof of God is the perfect, inimitable, Arabic, stenographically recorded, word of God in the Arabic Qur'an, either God doesn't know English or He has nothing to say to English-speakers. Moreover, ... I suppose God isn't really interested in having obedient believers who are deaf unless and until they master the perfect, inimitable, Arabic of the Qur'an, no?

You've picked a great guy and a great book. Of course I do believe the language of the Quran is impeccable.

But your words touched me mate. About you, your wife, I wish you all the very best of everything life could give. Peace.

 

[ecco]

Humility, and without personal agenda.

Mirror, mirror on the wall.

 

[ecco]

Why must one know Arabic to know the Qur’an?

The best that I, as a non-Quranic Arabic (or modern Arabic) reader can do is to look at several different translations to see if they are in rough agreement.

Even the translations done by native Arabic speakers differ from one to the other. Yet they all know Arabic. They all know enough about the Koran to believe they can translate it faithfully.

If all those things are true, it belies "one must know Arabic to know the Qur’an". It seems no one can know the Koran.

 

[firedragon]

Mirror, mirror on the wall.

Good exegesis.

 

[firedragon]

Even the translations done by native Arabic speakers differ from one to the other. Yet they all know Arabic. They all know enough about the Koran to believe they can translate it faithfully.

If all those things are true, it belies "one must know Arabic to know the Qur’an". It seems no one can know the Koran.

Great.

 

[ecco]

Great.

Good exegesis.

Ah, one-liners.