Israel shuts down missionary news channel

[columbus]

The line for "imminent" and "likely" is subject to argument, sure, but the point is that, if you want to say something which will lead directly to the attempt to overthrow the government, you can be censored.

Upon further thought, something occurred to me. I am imagining a TV channel similar to the ones my area is littered with. I'll hold my nose and argue for their protection.

But because we're talking about Israel, I could well imagine some content, that would go unnoticed here, but qualify as incitement to destroy the country. I'm talking about the religionists who are always on about The End Times, and how reestablishing Israel, rebuilding the Temple, and converting Jews to Christianity(so they don't burn in Hell). I could easily see some of the more bizarre religious teachings I hear (a lot) construed as "Destroy Israel, so Jesus can return in Glory". And the people promulgating such beliefs aiming their messages at impressionable youngsters, because adults are usually immune to such nonsense.

So yeah, I could see some content qualifying as "Overthrowing the government for God". That's not what I was thinking about earlier, but I could see it happening. I could understand threatening their license if they did that.
Tom

 

[Ehav4Ever]

OK.
I don't think Jewish identity in Israel is in any danger from a TV channel, but whatever.

And I sincerely doubt that a Christian TV channel broadcast anything like this. The Christians I know about are more likely to be staunch Zionists.
Maybe the Christians in Israel are different?
Tom

Having had experience with missionaries here in Israel I may be able to answer this one.

The reality is that the vast majority Christians in the world are not missionary and could care less about what we Jews do and such. That being said:

1. There are some Jews, worldwide, who have a concern for Christian interests in placing Christianity in the face of Jews. There has been a bit of history in parts of Europe towards this end which in some instances led to Jews being giving the choice of convert, stay and be tortured, or get out. Given that history, there are some Jews who in the modern era prefer that Christians keep Christianity to themselves and Jews will be Jewish to ourselves.
2. There are some Christian "missionary" organizations that only support the "state" of Israel and are declared as Christian Zionist because they beleive that doing so, and being nice about it, will convince Jews to become Christian and bring about the supposed second coming.
3. The missionary Christian organizations here in Israel are very cultish and I know a number of Jews/Israelis who have joined them and really gotten messed up.
   • I know of one guy who joined one and then when things were going so good he set himself on fire in the old city of Jerusalem.
   • I know of another story where a guy joined one those groups, told him family he didn't want to see them again and he went back on occasion to harass about his new "faith." There was a rabbi here in Israel who helped him out of the group and he made amends with his family.

Now, I am not stating all of this for sympathy. But I found it an interesting note.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Israel orders Evangelical GOD TV off air



To missionaries I say: we didn't wait nearly 2000 years to return to our land and live freely as Jews, only to have other religions attempt to turn us away from our religion.

You know.... if the things you believe stand up to scrutiny and are actually correct, there is no need to be afraid of alternative ideas being presented...

Shutting down those voices, to me means that they aren't at all confident in their beliefs.
It also speaks to their emotional attachment to said beliefs and intolerance of other beliefs as well.

People who impose such censorship, do so only because they know / believe that the case for their own beliefs is rather weak.

 

[Rival]

People who impose such censorship, do so only because they know / believe that the case for their own beliefs is rather weak.

Jews have been harassed and murdered by Christians for centuries. Their faith is anything but weak. All they want is Christians to leave them alone in the one Jewish state they have. Not sure why this is hard. And as mentioned by rosends above, there are legal ramifications for trying to convert minors.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Maintaining the ethnic identity of an ethnic-based country is oppression?

Switching to another religions, has exactly zero impact on ethnicity.

Also, sounds like you are arguing for some kind of "genetic purity". These are the types of things that the KKK were saying about mixed-race babies. The Nazi's too. I don't think you wish to be in that kind of company?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I see you're against nationalism.

Yes. This kind of nationalism is discriminatory and freedom-raping. And thus oppressive.
It rapes freedom of religion and it rapes freedom of speech. It's intolerance from top to bottom.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The Jewish people have one Jewish state. One.

Christians and Muslims have tens; whole continents, nearly.

Christians especially have been trying to convert Jews specifically since there have been Christians. They have been purged, exiled, killed, raped, tortured and libelled for centuries. Now they want one country, one, without Christians trying to tell them they're wrong, they have scales over their eyes, they need Jesus etc. Christians have tens of countries to do this in. Why can't they leave the Jewish one alone?

I'm against preaching outside of pulpits pretty much wholesale, but Christians trying to convert Jews really does my head in.

Christian evangelists annoy me too. When they are at my door, I feel like throwing something at them.
Usually I just troll them though. The other times, I just slam the door shut the second I realise what they are doing there. Which is usually their first sentence "have you heared the good news?". *SLAM*

However, I'll happily fight for their right to exercise their free speech. My country would be MUCH worse off if it oppressed people's voices and freedom of speech, then it would be with those freedoms and evangelists annoying me from time to time.

I'ld rather be annoyed from time to time, then to live in a country that doesn't value freedom of ideas.

And this isn't even a matter of people directly stopping jews and trying to convert them, half forcing them to engage in conversation. No... this is just a TV channel. Nobody forces anyone to watch it.

And those who are interested in it, should be able to watch it. Those are also the only ones that would watch it. Because why would you otherwise watch a religious channel?

Israel doesn't have a digital wall like china does... So the people who are truelly interested in it, and who would whatch the channel, would simply go on youtube and watch similar clips there. Which is actually even worse, because youtube are user submitted video's that don't require the "OK" of studio bosses to be broadcasted.

So what's next then? The blocking of youtube? The blocking of any and all religious websites and forums and apps? The banning of sales of the christian bible and quran and all other religious books that aren't the torah?

Where does it stop? Because this decision of making the tv channel stop it's broadcasting, is a nasty precedent that would make all of the above a logical continuation of such a policy.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Personally, I think that TV in Israel has a lot of nonsense that is on the same level as the content that godTV was planning on broadcasting. Most Israelis wouldn't have been influenced by it but there are enough Israelis, Jewish and Muslim, who are not interested in godTV content.

I think that there is a completely different way of looking at this. If godTV was not able to make a strong case and secure their ability to be on TV here then they won't be on TV. End of story. That alone is the reason why they don't have the right to be broadcast. If they had a better pitch, then maybe they would have won the day; but they didn't.

Besides, one other option is to let godTV broadcast with the understanding that anything that they say or do on their shows that doesn't make sense historically, textually, and logically their broadcast is paused and a person like me appears on the screen to explain why they are wrong.

Lastly, Israel is defined as a "secular" country. So, if godTV was taken down by a secular country that in the end didn't want it then that says something about the POWER of secularism.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I don't see how this is different from a democratic state creating laws to protect itself from becoming a dictatorship or anarchy.

Irony.

Such policies, as with the religious censorship of forcing the TV channel to go dark, are exactly the kind of things that dictatorships do.

This is why freedom of speech and freedom from religion are things in free democratic societies.
Because the opposite results in an unfree authoritarian theocracy instead of a free democracy

 

[Ehav4Ever]

However, I'll happily fight for their right to exercise their free speech. My country would be MUCH worse off if it oppressed people's voices and freedom of speech, then it would be with those freedoms and evangelists annoying me from time to time.

I'ld rather be annoyed from time to time, then to live in a country that doesn't value freedom of ideas.

Maybe we should work together to have godTV broadcast in your country instead.

Besides, I think we Israelis would have annoyed godTV to the point where they would have shut down on their own. In the end, it is for the best that they didn't waste their time and resources here with us pesky Israelis.

 

[Rival]

This is why freedom of speech and freedom from religion are things in free democratic societies.

Actually you won't find freedom of speech (as you know it) in most if not all of Europe.

The US allows Neo Nazi rallies. That would have you locked up here.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Irony.

Such policies, as with the religious censorship of forcing the TV channel to go dark, are exactly the kind of things that dictatorships do.

This is why freedom of speech and freedom from religion are things in free democratic societies.
Because the opposite results in an unfree authoritarian theocracy instead of a free democracy

It is for this reason that it is better that godTV has the ability to broadcast to the freeworld rather than be bogged down with Israeli censorship and oppression. I am sure that the CEO of godTV will sleep better at night w/o having to be concerned with broadcasting in this part of the Middle East.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

So what's next then? The blocking of youtube? The blocking of any and all religious websites and forums and apps? The banning of sales of the christian bible and quran and all other religious books that aren't the torah?

Where does it stop? Because this decision of making the tv channel stop it's broadcasting, is a nasty precedent that would make all of the above a logical continuation of such a policy.

Blocking YouTube in Israel? What? You have never been here before I assume. In terms of where does it stop. It already has stopped. Once godTV's offered was revoked everything essentially stopped. So essentially the line appears to have been godTV. The power of a secular country wins again.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I see the problem as being that people are travelling to and living in Israel specifically to preach to Jews that they need Jesus. They do this in droves. They're in the streets, on television, on pamphlets, you name it. As far as I am concerned, this is like some people turning up at a pride parade and telling queers they're going to hell and they need to stop. Maybe some people would give them that freedom; I think it's far too rude and would not allow them.

I consider that a false analogy. Religious evangelism / preaching, is not at all the same as homophobia (or racism or alike)

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I get that, but it's one of the first steps in a process. First you let in Christian (or another religion) media and what'll be next?

Maybe turn that question around.

First you force a tv channel to go dark and what'll be next?

Shutting down youtube?
Blocking half of social media?
Blocking every religious website and app which isn't pro-judaism?
Deporting everyone that isn't a jewish believer?



As a small point of interest here also...
If everyone in Israel and Palestine would abbandon their religious beliefs, you might actually even see some peace there for once.

 

[Rival]

I consider that a false analogy. Religious evangelism / preaching, is not at all the same as homophobia (or racism or alike)

In Judaism if one leaves or stops practicing it's considered a kind of death. I don't want to derail the thread too much with this, but even just one convert away is a loss for the whole nation. Spiritually, Israel is treated as one, not many, so even one loss is significant. So to those of us who believe this, yes, if one person is spiritually killed by Christianity, it spiritually drags the whole nation down. It's very serious.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I would. I would think they represent a potential danger to the people at the parade. I think their freedom of speech stops when people's lives could be at risk.

Please... how are people's lives at risk if jews in israel would convert to christianity?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Irony.

Such policies, as with the religious censorship of forcing the TV channel to go dark, are exactly the kind of things that dictatorships do.

This is why freedom of speech and freedom from religion are things in free democratic societies.
Because the opposite results in an unfree authoritarian theocracy instead of a free democracy

So, can you suggest some free democratic societies that godTV can broadcast in instead of Israel? That should be a win/win for everyone if they get a better deal somewhere else where there is no secular-unfree-authoritarian-theocracy like here, don't you think?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Please... how are people's lives at risk if jews in israel would convert to christianity?

Well, there was that time that Jews converted during the various inquisitions and the inquisitors searched for signs of converted Jews still practicing Torah in secret. There were a lot of Jews who lost their lives during that one.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Jews have been harassed and murdered by Christians for centuries. Their faith is anything but weak. All they want is Christians to leave them alone in the one Jewish state they have. Not sure why this is hard.

I want christians to leave me alone as well. In fact, I want everybody to leave me alone - especially when it comes to religious preaching.

I'ld half understand a rule that would say that you can't go bother people directly by showing up at their house unannounced for such things. But a TV channel doesn't do that. Nobody forces you to watch it.

In fact, you can even remove the channel from your digital list. Most setup boxes or analogue tv's support such features. Or push them back to the bottom of the list, if you really feel like you must.
The point is: nobody force you to watch it. So it's quite nonsensical to call compare it to "harassment".

I cringe and am disgusted by anything related to the Kardashians. I feel like vomitting from the contents of the show "keeping up with the kardashians". So you know what I do? I don't watch it.

I don't think it would be justified to say that I am being "harassed" by the kardashians, because their show is broadcasted on tv.

And as mentioned by rosends above, there are legal ramifications for trying to convert minors.

Put a PG18 rating on it.


Also note that this law, unless it is hypocritical (which I'm sure it is), would also prevent parents to indoctrinate their children into their religion.