Israel shuts down missionary news channel

[rosends]

Israel both is and isn't a secular nation and this is where it gets confusing. For everyone. In some ways, the country is very secular. In some ways, some cities are very secular and others are (mandatorily and legistlatively) religious. In some ways, there is a state religion, or a state religious mentality. In others, there isn't. It is a "Jewish State" but its laws are not always in line with religious law. It has political parties that are religious and many that are not, so the arguments in politics about religious issues are still argued -- nothing is by default.

 

[Rival]

Israel both is and isn't a secular nation and this is where it gets confusing. For everyone. In some ways, the country is very secular. In some ways, some cities are very secular and others are (mandatorily and legistlatively) religious. In some ways, there is a state religion, or a state religious mentality. In others, there isn't. It is a "Jewish State" but its laws are not always in line with religious law. It has political parties that are religious and many that are not, so the arguments in politics about religious issues are still argued -- nothing is by default.

Reminds me somewhat of the UK. We have 26 Bishops in the House of Lords by default.

 

[rosends]

Reminds me somewhat of the UK. We have 26 Bishops in the House of Lords by default.

Right, so, in any case, the decisions made may be in line with a religious sensibility, a religious understanding or even a religious law, or counter to (or separate from) that religious idea. If religion is, on any level intertwined with the identity of the country then criticizing a religious country for involving religion seems strange. One should look at the number of rules and laws which sidestep religion and recognize (or admire?) that display of guts in the face of religion. At least, one should not export one's home sensibility onto another independent system.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

For non-religious reasons and in many cases even to preserve the secular nature of the state.
For example, people who represent the government not being allowed to wear any clear religious symbols.

In many cases I think it's ridiculous as well and not at all necessary.

But the main point, is that the motivation for such rules is not religious, nore is it geared towards specific religions while making exceptions for a "favoured" religion.

For example, if a government representative can't wear such religious symbols... then that goes for nikaabs, burka's and hijabs. But ALSO for visible crosses, that jewish hat I forgot the name of, etc.

So there is no discrimination going on. And if it were, it would be quickly and swiftly be ruled unconstitutional.

Banning symbols and head gear is freedom? You know there are some who would say that what you described is tyranny and not freedom. I.e. it is a type a tyranny that works perfectly fine for some and not so much for others.

What if someone is cold and decides to put on a hijab to keep warm is that banned? How do they prove up there that the person is wearing a peice of clothing for religion and not for fashion?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Let's not forget that Israel is defined as secular country. Most of the country is run by secular interests and a larger number of so called religous Israel's don't have TV's. So that maens that godTV got shut down because they couldn't convince a secular government and the secular portion of the country to give them a chance.

Like was mentioned earlier. godTV still has the internet. If their content was such a must and so ground breaking they still have the internet. So what exactly did they lose here again?

Besides, there is a tax on having a TV here in Israel.......we can't afford to have godTV here! They are better off in Qatar where they will get better ratings.

 

[danieldemol]

Let's not forget that Israel is defined as secular country. Most of the country is run by secular interests and a larger number of so called religous Israel's don't have TV's. So that maens that godTV got shut down because they couldn't convince a secular government and the secular portion of the country to give them a chance.

Like was mentioned earlier. godTV still has the internet. If their content was such a must and so ground breaking they still have the internet. So what exactly did they lose here again?

Besides, there is a tax on having a TV here in Israel.......we can't afford to have godTV here! They are better off in Qatar where they will get better ratings.

Sorry but the OP was not raised by a secular Israeli.

Even in secular countries there are still conservative forces at play (consider Pakistan and to a lesser extent the US).

And there are sure to be hypocrites who have a TV all the while objecting to it. The claim that the ‘larger’ number has no tv implies that there is at least a small number who do

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Sorry but the OP was not raised by a secular Israeli.

Even in secular countries there are still conservative forces at play (consider Pakistan and to a lesser extent the US).

And there are sure to be hypocrites who have a TV all the while objecting to it. The claim that the ‘larger’ number has no tv implies that there is at least a small number who do

It was shut down by laws that were created by a secular country and it was also shut down by having no secular support for it. If they really wanted to be on TV here they could have easily turned to the secular populace to plead their case. I have been living here for more than 13 years, and I can tell you that if the secular populace wanted it on TV it would be on TV. Further, there are secular forces here that do not want religious stuff on TV. There are Torah based rabbis here in Israel who can't even get on TV because the secular parts of society don't want them there; why should godTV get special treatment?

So if godTV was not able to market themselves to the right institutions that is their fault.

 

[danieldemol]

There are Torah based rabbis here in Israel who can't even get on TV because the secular parts of society don't want them there

Do you have any sources to back up that secular Israeli society is banning Jewish TV channels?

Also given that all those complaining about the channel here are religious Jews with the exception of Rival who is a religious Noahide anyway and not one atheist or agnostic Jew complaining about it here do you genuinely think that the opposition to the TV channel in question is anything other than religiously motivated?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Do you have any sources to back up that secular Israeli society is banning Jewish TV channels?

Also given that all those complaining about the channel here are religious Jews with the exception of Rival who is a religious Noahide anyway and not one atheist or agnostic Jew complaining about it here do you genuinely think that the opposition to the TV channel in question is anything other than religiously motivated?

Are you kidding? I can show secular Israeli society doing way more than banning Torah based content on TV. How good is your Hebrew?

Until then, let’s first understand the “real” reasons that the godTV license was revoked; not banned. My emphasis added in important parts of the article originally posted by Harel.

"The Cable and Satellite Broadcasting Council launched an investigation to determine if GOD TV had misrepresented its content when it applied for a license.

Council chairman Asher Bitton said on Sunday that following the probe and a hearing, he had informed Hot that Shelanu broadcasts must be removed within seven days.

"The channel is aimed at Jews with Christian content, in contrast to the original broadcast request, which stated it was designated for Christians," Bitton said in a council statement.

It said that a Christian channel for Jews would not be automatically disqualified in the future, but that it would have to seek the council's approval, which Shelanu had not done.

HOT could file a new request for Shelanu that would include "a truthful and detailed" characterization of the channel, the statement added."​

So, in short they got shut down because they did not follow secular Israeli “law” for applying for a license. Their license was "legally" revoked using same said secular laws.

So, now that we have gotten the facts out there – all free countries have laws and if someone doesn’t follow the law, including misrepresenting themselves then it is within most legislations to revoke a license. HOT is a secular channel and if they want they make a new request for godTV with the correct information.

As the below article shows, they wouldn't have had their license revoked if they had been clear from the start what their channel was about and had followed the Israeli law; which so happens to be secular.

לא מסתירים כוונות: ערוץ מיסיון נוצרי ב-HOT

 

[danieldemol]

I can show secular Israeli society doing way more than banning Torah based content on TV

Then it shouldn’t be that hard to show secular Israeli society banning a Jewish TV channel as I requested.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Then it shouldn’t be that hard to show secular Israeli society banning a Jewish TV channel as I requested.

Given that GodTV wasn't banned but instead their license was revoked because they did not follow secular Israeli “law” for applying for a license; I will ask again. How good is your Hebrew? Also, have you heard of Arutz 7?

 

[danieldemol]

Given that GodTV wasn't banned but instead their license was revoked because they did not follow secular Israeli “law” for applying for a license; I will ask again. How good is your Hebrew? Also, have you heard of Arutz 7?

My Hebrew is of no relevance. If you have only a source in Hebrew and not in English provide it and maybe someone will be found who can comment on it.

I googled Arutz 7 now and it looks like it is Israeli national news.

Are you going to provide a source or just stall with more questions?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

My Hebrew is of no relevance. If you have only a source in Hebrew and not in English provide it and maybe someone will be found who can comment on it.

I googled Arutz 7 now and it looks like it is Israeli national news.

Are you going to provide a source or just stall with more questions?

Of course I am stalling because you claim tha godTV was banned but according to the news, from here in Israel, they were not banned - their license was revoked because they did not follow secular Israeli “law” for applying for a license.

So, are you asking when an equivalent situation happened to an Torah based organization or are you specifically looking for a BAN; which is not the case in the godTV situation?

Your level of Hebrew is important because if the only sources are in Hebrew and I provide; you may rightfully state, "but I understand that."

 

[danieldemol]

So, are you asking when an equivalent situation happened to an Torah based organization or are you specifically looking for a BAN; which is not the case in the godTV situation?

Ok, so do you have a case where a Jewish channel had their licence revoked for preaching to Israelis?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Ok, so do you have a case where a Jewish channel had their licence revoked for preaching to Israelis?

There is a situation where a religious zionist organization, Arutz 7 was shutdown from broadcasting, due to an interpretation that they also were NOT FOLLOWING the laws about how broadcasting is required to take place by the secular laws of Israel - due to the type of religious zionist positions they broadcast.

Let's be clear on what we are talking about here. Again, godTV had their license revoked not because they wanted to preach to Israelis. Their license was revoked because - godTV misrepresented its content when it applied for a license. Further to this point, as the articlle pointed out: It said that a Christian channel for Jews would not be automatically disqualified in the future, but that it would have to seek the council's approval, which Shelanu had not done.

So, are clear on what we are discussing here?

 

[danieldemol]

There is a situation where a religious zionist organization, Arutz 7 was shutdown from broadcasting, due to an interpretation that they also were NOT FOLLOWING the laws about how broadcasting is required to take place by the secular laws of Israel - due to the type of religious zionist positions they broadcast.

Let's be clear on what we are talking about here. Again, godTV had their license revoked not because they wanted to preach to Israelis. Their license was revoked because - godTV misrepresented its content when it applied for a license. Further to this point, as the articlle pointed out: It said that a Christian channel for Jews would not be automatically disqualified in the future, but that it would have to seek the council's approval, which Shelanu had not done.

So, are clear on what we are discussing here?

Not really, you appear to make out that they were revoked on a mere technicality, and that it would have been perfectly ok for them to preach to the Jews if they had been honest with their intentions.

I find this suspect because of
1. The tone of this thread, much of which echoes the tone of the OP in making it out to be an issue that they were preaching to the Israeli Jews
2. If preaching to the Israelis is not an issue there is no reason for such a legal technicality to exist (ie they should never even have had to disclose who their preaching was aimed at in the first place)

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Not really, you appear to make out that they were revoked on a mere technicality, and that it would have been perfectly ok for them to preach to the Jews if they had been honest with their intentions.

I find this suspect because of
1. The tone of this thread, much of which echoes the tone of the OP in making it out to be an issue that they were preaching to the Israeli Jews
2. If preaching to the Israelis is not an issue there is no reason for such a legal technicality to exist (ie they should never even have had to disclose who their preaching was aimed at in the first place)

It doen't matter what we posters think. What matters is the law. They did not comply with the Israeli law and their license was revoked. Legally. Of course, a license can be revoked for not following the law. They can easily go to court if they were unjustly revoked.

Besides, what evidence do you have that they would not have been allowed to broadcast license IF they had followed the law set up by the government of Israel?

Arutz 7 got shutdown to the point where they had to broadcast from a boat in the ocean.

 

[rosends]

I would have to go back to the documents again but I'm not sure that the proper language is that they were "shut down." Space on the bandwidth is regulated and one needs a license for access to that bandwidth. Their license was revoked. They have the right (and the intention) to reapply for a license the same as any other broadcaster who was found in violation of their stated charter. Now, if their charter makes missionizing explicit, it would have to (among other hurdles) prove that it specifically excludes children from its audience as missionizing to children violates Israeli law.

As to the question of why they have to state their intent at all, that is in order to justify that they operate in the public interest -- a standard element to proving that one deserves to be granted a license, at least in the US.

 

[danieldemol]

It doen't matter what we posters think.

Except that it does, because “we posters” can and should seek to have unjust laws overturned.

And you still have not provided a source for your boat story.

Do you dislike sources or something?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Israel orders Evangelical GOD TV off air



To missionaries I say: we didn't wait nearly 2000 years to return to our land and live freely as Jews, only to have other religions attempt to turn us away from our religion.

If they don't have the freedom to hear or believe what they choose, how could they possibly be "living freely?"