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Israel shuts down missionary news channel

rosends

Well-Known Member
There are two issues. Mixing the two does no one any good.

1. The terms of license. The broadcaster said he would do one thing but he, even after being warned, did something else. That's a breach of contract. The content is irrelevant. License was granted based on a lie.

2. The content. In some countries, content is deemed inappropriate in part or in whole. Pornography (of various sorts) is one example. It doesn't matter that what is being portrayed is an accurate depiction of the human reproductive process -- the content runs afoul of what is considered appropriate for at least part of the whole based on community standards. Hate content (or advocating the violent overthrowing of the government, or presenting something which puts national security at risk are other possibilities) is also limited in some places even if the broadcaster believes the content to be true. The regulated airwaves provide channels and licensure in what is considered the public interest. Not serving that public interest gets the license revoked.

Israel has Christian channels and programming content. It just has other rules about honesty in licensing and missionizing. Deciding that the area of religion is categorically different is a projection of a personal attitude towards religion. A pornographer might say that pornography is different and shouldn't be subject to any limitations.
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
Put a PG18 rating on it.

They did that already. In the Middle East not showing up on TV is the PG18 rating.

Maybe, godTV should try to get broadcast in Lebenon, Gaza, the West Bank, Jordan, Iran, Syria, and Iraq. Those markets are probably more open to godTV content than Israelis are. Besides, as I stated before Israel is a secular nation in the Middle East. A channel called "godTV" doesn't exactly fit the mold.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Maybe we should work together to have godTV broadcast in your country instead. ;)

Feel free to do so. Don't count on my help because it doesn't interest me.
There are already equivalent channels, and channels that broadcasts such programs among other things, and it doesn't bother me at all. Doesn't interest me either.

I have some 150 channels and only watch like 5 - 7 of them. All the rest is nonsense or simply not my cup of tea.

Besides, I think we Israelis would have annoyed godTV to the point where they would have shut down on their own.

That would have been better.

In the end, it is for the best that they didn't waste their time and resources here with us pesky Israelis.

Ow, disagree.
I think the bigger the piece of their evangalizing budget they throw out the window with zero results, the better.
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
Can someone from the US tell me what was COINTELPRO?

Also, aren't there some countries in Europe that are banning some type of so called "religous" clothing? Which countries are we defining as being democratic and free for all?
 
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TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Actually you won't find freedom of speech (as you know it) in most if not all of Europe.

As an atheist european resident, whose father and his family is muslim and whose mother's side of the family is catholic, who has an old friend who entered a Krshna "monestary" or alike (in belgium), who works not far from a hindu community, and who's country subsidizes churches, mosques and synagogues... etc I'm gonna call BS.

If you are talking about something specific, something else, by all means let's hear it


The US allows Neo Nazi rallies.

We don't, as your freedom of speech ends where it turns into rallies PRO racism, homophobia and alike.
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
Feel free to do so. Don't count on my help because it doesn't interest me.

Well, there goes their big chance to hit the spot light in the free world. ;)

There are already equivalent channels, and channels that broadcasts such programs among other things, and it doesn't bother me at all. Doesn't interest me either.

I have some 150 channels and only watch like 5 - 7 of them. All the rest is nonsense or simply not my cup of tea.

Here in Israel we wouldn't be able to concentrate with that many channels. It is better that the rest of the world take the godTV challenge on, but their advertising potential is a lot higher in the US and Europe than it would be here.

Ow, disagree.
I think the bigger the piece of their evangalizing budget they throw out the window with zero results, the better.

I have to be concerned about their financial and personal well being. It is better that they use that budget that would have been wasted here in Israel to feed the hungry and needy of the world.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
As a european resident, I'm gonna call BS.
Holocaust denial is illegal here.

Many countries ban the sale of NS or Communist material, or party forming.

Pretty much all countries have hate speech laws.

We cannot preach in school classrooms.

Etc.


We don't, as your freedom of speech ends where it turns into rallies PRO racism, homophobia and alike.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally

325px-Charlottesville_%27Unite_the_Right%27_Rally_%2835780274914%29_crop.jpg
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Blocking YouTube in Israel? What? You have never been here before I assume. ;) In terms of where does it stop. It already has stopped. Once godTV's offered was revoked everything essentially stopped. So essentially the line appears to have been godTV. The power of a secular country wins again.
If the GodTV was pulled of the air for religious (cenosrship) reasons, then secularims didn't win. Instead, it lost. Big time.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
In Judaism if one leaves or stops practicing it's considered a kind of death. I don't want to derail the thread too much with this, but even just one convert away is a loss for the whole nation. Spiritually, Israel is treated as one, not many, so even one loss is significant. So to those of us who believe this, yes, if one person is spiritually killed by Christianity, it spiritually drags the whole nation down. It's very serious.

That's nice, but you are just confirming the point of objection: it's religiously inspired political action.
It leaves the realm of secularism and enters the realm of theocracy.

That never ends well.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
So, can you suggest some free democratic societies that godTV can broadcast in instead of Israel? That should be a win/win for everyone if they get a better deal somewhere else where there is no secular-unfree-authoritarian-theocracy like here, don't you think?

I really don't care where they broadcast.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
As an atheist european resident, whose father and his family is muslim and whose mother's side of the family is catholic, who has an old friend who entered a Krshna "monestary" or alike (in belgium), who works not far from a hindu community, and who's country subsidizes churches, mosques and synagogues... etc I'm gonna call BS.
Not sure what this has to do with free speech. This is freedom of religion. Two completely separate things.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Well, there was that time that Jews converted during the various inquisitions and the inquisitors searched for signs of converted Jews still practicing Torah in secret. There were a lot of Jews who lost their lives during that one.


That "time" being back when the secular democracies of today were theocracies themselves, somewhere between +1000 and 500 years ago. :rolleyes:

Are you really meaning to say there that through GodTV the inquisition would be resurected in Israel who will then go hunting on "closet" jews?

Come on now...
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
There are two issues. Mixing the two does no one any good.

1. The terms of license. The broadcaster said he would do one thing but he, even after being warned, did something else. That's a breach of contract. The content is irrelevant. License was granted based on a lie.

2. The content. In some countries, content is deemed inappropriate in part or in whole. Pornography (of various sorts) is one example. It doesn't matter that what is being portrayed is an accurate depiction of the human reproductive process -- the content runs afoul of what is considered appropriate for at least part of the whole based on community standards. Hate content (or advocating the violent overthrowing of the government, or presenting something which puts national security at risk are other possibilities) is also limited in some places even if the broadcaster believes the content to be true. The regulated airwaves provide channels and licensure in what is considered the public interest. Not serving that public interest gets the license revoked.

Israel has Christian channels and programming content. It just has other rules about honesty in licensing and missionizing. Deciding that the area of religion is categorically different is a projection of a personal attitude towards religion. A pornographer might say that pornography is different and shouldn't be subject to any limitations.

For the record: my posting here is entirely and purely from the perspective of taking political action, or pushing political legislation, based on religious motivation only. Because that is how the OP represented it.

If it turns out that it really concerns another issue... like for instance that they failed to comply to financial obligations to acquire the license or whatever, then off course none of my postings are relevant.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Besides, as I stated before Israel is a secular nation in the Middle East.


If they engage in political action or legislation based on religious motivations, then they are not a secular nation.
If they don't preserve and secure freedom from religion, then they are not a secular state.

A channel called "godTV" doesn't exactly fit the mold.

Allowing such channels to exist, does. Forbidding such channels for religious reasons, is what doesn't fit the mold of secularism.

That's literally what secularism is about: to NOT push one religion over another.
So when political action is literally geared towards preserving the "favoured" religion and "bannishing" the preaching of other religions, that is literally diametrically opposed to secularism.

You couldn't be more anti-secular if you tried.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Disagree.

Children aren't born christian or jewish (the religion, not the ethnicity).
They need to be indoctrinated into it.

I don't see how that's different.
The law states that converting a minor is an offence.

Conversion implies replacing something with something else.

You're just trying to muddy the waters to make out that everyone ought to be raised an atheist if this law is the case, as if you have no idea what conversion means.
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
That "time" being back when the secular democracies of today were theocracies themselves, somewhere between +1000 and 500 years ago. :rolleyes:

Are you really meaning to say there that through GodTV the inquisition would be resurected in Israel who will then go hunting on "closet" jews?

Come on now...

I didn't say that godTV would resurect the inquistion. Especially not in Israel. What I wrote was the following:

"Well, there was that time that Jews converted during the various inquisitions and the inquisitors searched for signs of converted Jews still practicing Torah in secret. There were a lot of Jews who lost their lives during that one."
Meaning, there have been times in history that Jews lives were threatened before and after converting to Christianity. When it comes to Jews who convert to Christianity we have no guarentee of what the future holds. We only have those not so nice times in history when it didn't go so well. Besides, in some places the inquisition was still on the books into modern history.

Even if I were to make such a claim because they are not currently able to convince anyone to let them broadcast on Israeli TV such a thing couldn't happen, even in theory.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member

Also, aren't there some countries in Europe that are banning some type of so called "religous" clothing?

For non-religious reasons and in many cases even to preserve the secular nature of the state.
For example, people who represent the government not being allowed to wear any clear religious symbols.

In many cases I think it's ridiculous as well and not at all necessary.

But the main point, is that the motivation for such rules is not religious, nore is it geared towards specific religions while making exceptions for a "favoured" religion.

For example, if a government representative can't wear such religious symbols... then that goes for nikaabs, burka's and hijabs. But ALSO for visible crosses, that jewish hat I forgot the name of, etc.

So there is no discrimination going on. And if it were, it would be quickly and swiftly be ruled unconstitutional.
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
For the record: my posting here is entirely and purely from the perspective of taking political action, or pushing political legislation, based on religious motivation only. Because that is how the OP represented it.

Here is the problem then. There are secular Israelis who don't want religious content on TV or any additional content. Don't they have a right to oppose godTV being on their TV's?
 
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