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Featured Israel shuts down missionary news channel

Discussion in 'Religious News' started by Harel13, Jun 29, 2020.

  1. Rival

    Rival Noahide
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    The Jewish people have one Jewish state. One.

    Christians and Muslims have tens; whole continents, nearly.

    Christians especially have been trying to convert Jews specifically since there have been Christians. They have been purged, exiled, killed, raped, tortured and libelled for centuries. Now they want one country, one, without Christians trying to tell them they're wrong, they have scales over their eyes, they need Jesus etc. Christians have tens of countries to do this in. Why can't they leave the Jewish one alone?

    I'm against preaching outside of pulpits pretty much wholesale, but Christians trying to convert Jews really does my head in.
     
  2. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    Apparently the holocaust was not able to get rid of the Jewish identity, but a TV Channel is?

    :rolleyes:
     
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  3. columbus

    columbus member

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    OK.
    I don't think Jewish identity in Israel is in any danger from a TV channel, but whatever.
    And I sincerely doubt that a Christian TV channel broadcast anything like this. The Christians I know about are more likely to be staunch Zionists.
    Maybe the Christians in Israel are different?:shrug:
    Tom
     
  4. Harel13

    Harel13 Well-Known Member

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    Let's put it this way: among non-Jews there are essentially two types of Zionists: those that want the Jewish people to have a state in the land of Israel and those that want the Jewish people to have a state in the land of Israel and convert to [insert religion] (and subsequently, people of said religion will want to join the ex-Jews in living and governing that state, with a good chance of making the Jewish people a minority in their own country).
     
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  5. columbus

    columbus member

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    One of the reasons I have found Israel superior to most states is their first world democracy. That includes freedom of speech. @Harel13 said he doesn't believe in that. I'm surprised to find that you don't either.

    I believe Judaism can easily survive a TV channel, given the last several centuries. Perhaps you disagree.
    Tom
     
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  6. Rival

    Rival Noahide
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    I dislike preaching as a whole. If your religion has any merit to it at all, it shouldn't need to preach. Then again, I'm from the U.K.; in fact, in Europe in general, seeing preachers on the street etc. is very rare and very unwelcome. A lot of Brits tend to find it incredibly rude. Preaching is for Churches.
     
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  7. Vee

    Vee Well-Known Member
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    Shouldn't people be allowed to chose their religion, and change their mind if they have new information at some point in their lives?
     
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  8. Harel13

    Harel13 Well-Known Member

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    I don't see how this is different from a democratic state creating laws to protect itself from becoming a dictatorship or anarchy.
     
  9. columbus

    columbus member

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    You know I'm with you on all this, right?

    But what I'm talking about is the other side of the coin. If your religion has merit, shutting down free speech isn't necessary. It can stand on it's own. A TV channel isn't going to end your religion.
    @Harel13 specifically answered "Yes, I'm against free speech".
    Personally, I have more faith in Judaism than that. Rome, "The Eternal City", is gone. It's a touristy destination that's unimportant. Judaism endures.

    Largely because Jewish ethics are better than most modern ideologically based ethics. Like Christian and Islam.
    Tom
     
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  10. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    I understand. Here in the USA it is necessary not to let our government obtain that kind of authority. In Israel...I am not sure and am a little bit suspicious about this decision, but Israel is a much much smaller piece of land. I don't think that smaller places can be governed in the same manner as larger ones.

    The colonial governments here have had such power in the past, and churches (such as the Calvinist church) were in charge of some places. Churches taxed everyone and put people into jail for not going to church. Many people had to flee from one colony to another. It was like a disease caught from the churches under the king Henries.

    I guess just watch your backsides. If you let the government have religious power then it can start abusing that power. For example if it can ban a radio station it might start requiring you to listen to a particular station and fill in reports and answer questions about what you were taught. You wouldn't want that.
     
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  11. Rival

    Rival Noahide
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    I see the problem as being that people are travelling to and living in Israel specifically to preach to Jews that they need Jesus. They do this in droves. They're in the streets, on television, on pamphlets, you name it. As far as I am concerned, this is like some people turning up at a pride parade and telling queers they're going to hell and they need to stop. Maybe some people would give them that freedom; I think it's far too rude and would not allow them.
     
  12. Harel13

    Harel13 Well-Known Member

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    I find things like that to be a type of hate speech - hate towards the religion and culture of the Jewish People, AKA Judaism.
    I get that, but it's one of the first steps in a process. First you let in Christian (or another religion) media and what'll be next?
     
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  13. columbus

    columbus member

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    We were talking about a TV channel.

    And being a staunch supporter of freedom of speech,
    I don't like that. But I prioritize freedom of speech, so I won't call the cops to stop them.

    I cannot put you on ignore, but I can Harel13.
    Tom
     
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  14. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    While other countries allow differing levels of "freedom" of speech, no country has an absolute freedom. In the US, there are a priori restraints allowing government intrusion and censorship, and post hoc causes of action allowing law suits for damages. One thing that is not covered in the US is advocating of the imminent violent overthrowing of the government. The line for "imminent" and "likely" is subject to argument, sure, but the point is that, if you want to say something which will lead directly to the attempt to overthrow the government, you can be censored.

    Now, Israel does have a concept of freedom of speech, but it also has limits. One limit is on proselytizing. Missionizing isn't allowed in particular situations (such as targeting children). From here:

    "the first law, from section 174 of the Penal Code – 1977, forbids a person to proselytize another to change his religion by means of material benefit. The second law, from section 368 of the Penal Code, forbids persuading or seducing a minor (under the age of 18) to change his religion."

    In the case of the TV station, though, this is not an issue of any freedom of speech, but of terms of a license for a regulated medium. From here:

    "Asher Biton, chairman of the Communications Ministry’s Cable and Satellite Broadcasting Council, told Haaretz that he did not know that the new channel would engage in missionary activities and said that while religious programming is permitted, missionary programming is prohibited under the terms of its license.

    “According to our regulations, it is fine to broadcast religious programming,” Biton said, “but it is forbidden to broadcast content that has the potential to influence viewers in an undue fashion, and most certainly young and impressionable viewers.” "

    If they were allowed license, agreeing to a certain set of regulations, and broke those regulations, then they get their broadcast license pulled. The corporation's right to broadcast within Israeli law isn't being denied. From here:

    "God TV was told by the council that it was welcome to submit a new license application that provided a more honest depiction of the nature of its programming. Proselytizing, in certain circumstances, can be against the law in Israel."

    and, the kicker,

    "Biton notes that in its application for a license for the new channel, Hot said that the target audience was the Christian community in Israel, when in fact it was Jews. Even after Hot was put on notice, the letter says, the channel continued to broadcast programs about Christianity aimed specifically at Jews."
     
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  15. Rival

    Rival Noahide
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    I would. I would think they represent a potential danger to the people at the parade. I think their freedom of speech stops when people's lives could be at risk.
     
  16. columbus

    columbus member

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    I live in a country where
    WBC_protest.jpg
    is legal.
    Not just legal, Constitutionally protected.

    I'm still not willing to give the government the power to squelch free speech.
    Tom
     
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  17. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    But the government has it in the US. They just draw a different line
    Prior Restraints

    and government agencies can make rules limiting access to finite channels
    The Public and Broadcasting
     
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  18. columbus

    columbus member

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    Oh, there's plenty to criticize in USA policies. Like, what is "obscenity"? You could show a guy being executed by shotgun in his shower, as long as the camera angle doesn't show his penis.

    But what I'm referring to here is squelching political and religious views. I don't like Christian Zionists much, but their opinions definitely must be protected(at least from government intrusion, not necessarily the social or market forces). I'm sure I would dislike the God TV channel as much or more than you do. But I'm not willing to give the government power enough to shut people up because the elite prefer not to hear what the people have to say.
    As much as I despise many religious and political opinions, my distrust of the government is even stronger.
    Tom
     
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  19. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    North Korea approves ...
     
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  20. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    Well the people can always go onto youtube to if they are really interested in Christianity.

    From what I understand as well, isn't Israel a secular state? Like many Jews in country aren't actually religious are they?.
     
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