If this pandemic/pestilece is a sign of the end..next sign is in the heavens

[MNoBody]

Whatever the great signs in the heavens will be, I am confident people will not need to strain at nats in the sky to see them.

that i can agree with

 

[dad]

I didn't. You're taking what I'm saying personally. We have not sinned.

God says we did.

We are all blessed, for good pair of words

Good luck with that.

We don't need redemption because we're not drowning.

The wages of sin is death actually.

If drowning helps you find value in life, who is to say your view has no meaning.

The meaning is found is being saved from death, not in dying.

Life doesn't revolve around our beliefs. It is what it is.

Jesus disagrees.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

God says we did.

We have not. Why do you need to see yourself deprived or drowning (or accept that you are)?

Good luck with that.

Actually, my life is better when it's blessed. It lets me see the positive myself and in others. It gives me a reason to do what I do. I learn from my mistakes rather than feel "the need" to suffer from them.

If that's negative, I honestly don't know what to say.

The wages of sin is death actually.

There is no sin. The wages of blessings is life.

The meaning is found is being saved from death, not in dying.

But you're not drowning, so there isn't separation from god. Why do you personally feel you need to drown in order to be saved? I know you said god told you, but do you follow god without thinking about what you're following? Do you have a good understanding of who/what you are following or do you do so just because god says so?

Jesus disagrees.

It doesn't. Beliefs are things you accept are true. They're not facts by definition. If you can show your beliefs are fact, then that's knowledge and you can correct me with that knowledge.

How does accepting something is true make it true?

 

[gnomon]

I prefer to have God somewhere in the picture. Whether as the One we turn to for deliverance from evil things, or even possibly as the One who told us in advance that such things would come one day.

If you prefer to have God in the picture......stop worrying about the end of everything.

Do what is necessary NOW to have god in the picture. Like staying safe and helping others.

If "the end" comes than it does. Sitting around and whining about self fulfilled prophecies....what good does that do?

 

[dad]

We have not. Why do you need to see yourself deprived or drowning (or accept that you are)?

Since God says one thing and you the opposite I need to take what you say with a grain of salt.

Actually, my life is better when it's blessed. It lets me see the positive myself and in others. It gives me a reason to do what I do. I learn from my mistakes rather than feel "the need" to suffer from them.

Glib little fantasy you have there.

There is no sin. The wages of blessings is life.

Overruled by God.

But you're not drowning, so there isn't separation from god. Why do you personally feel you need to drown in order to be saved? I know you said god told you, but do you follow god without thinking about what you're following? Do you have a good understanding of who/what you are following or do you do so just because god says so?

He says we all need to be saved.

It doesn't.

Yes, He does disagree and in black and white.

 

[dad]

If you prefer to have God in the picture......stop worrying about the end of everything.

Do what is necessary NOW to have god in the picture. Like staying safe and helping others.

If "the end" comes than it does. Sitting around and whining about self fulfilled prophecies....what good does that do?

We are told to watch. The signs are for those who can read them. Not for those choosing to pretend there could be no signs.

 

[gnomon]

We are told to watch. The signs are for those who can read them. Not for those choosing to pretend there could be no signs.

No.

We were not told to watch.

We were told to love.

Those who look for signs, need signs, have lost their way.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

This is no more a sign of the end than any other plague in the past.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Since God says one thing and you the opposite I need to take what you say with a grain of salt.

It does help to take other people's views into consideration without thinking we need to convince you of something. It's not personal.

Glib little fantasy you have there.

I was following you up until this insult. Is seeing positive things in human nature a negative thing???

Overruled by God.

No. Blessings arnt overruled by god; they are from god.

He says we all need to be saved.

We don't. Those who believe they are drowning need to be saved. Those who know we are not, do not need to be.

Yes, He does disagree and in black and white.

How does accepting something is true (belief) make it true?

 

[izzy88]

We have not sinned

You don't understand the concept of sin, if you believe this. You can believe that committing sins is okay, that there's nothing wrong with it, but that doesn't then mean you haven't committed them. If you commit murder but don't believe there's anything wrong with it, that doesn't change the fact that you committed murder.

 

[dad]

No.

We were not told to watch.

We were told to love.

Those who look for signs, need signs, have lost their way.

Mt 24:42 - Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

 

[dad]

This is no more a sign of the end than any other plague in the past.

Other pestilences were signs also. I notice that the time from the black plague till the Spanish Flu was longer than say, Ebola or Sars to Covind 19. So, it seems the intensity and frequency is more. That is what we look for, like a woman in labor. The pains get shorter and shorter apart.

 

[dad]

It does help to take other people's views into consideration without thinking we need to convince you of something. It's not personal.

You really can't convince anyone your opinion is better than Scripture.

I was following you up until this insult. Is seeing positive things in human nature a negative thing???

If we pretend it is all roses and no thorns it could be.

No. Blessings arnt overruled by god; they are from god.

Yes they are. Salvation needs to be asked for though. It doesn't come by osmosis.

We don't. Those who believe they are drowning need to be saved. Those who know we are not, do not need to be.

God said we are all sinners and all need to be saved. If some poor folks are so demented or far gone, or clueless or whatever, that they think they have no sin, it changes nothing.

How does accepting something is true (belief) make it true?

Jesus is True before we accept Him. Accepting Him does not make Him true!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You don't understand the concept of sin, if you believe this. You can believe that committing sins is okay, that there's nothing wrong with it, but that doesn't then mean you haven't committed them. If you commit murder but don't believe there's anything wrong with it, that doesn't change the fact that you committed murder.

The context I'm referring to is inherited sin. We don't have inherited sin that causes us to sin (or act in transgression of one's morals, law, or so have you). When we sin, it isn't a separation from god.

The general definition, yes. We all commit sins. As per christianity, we don't all believe we have sinful nature that causes us to sin-it's our choice (in most cases, let's say) rather than a pull to temptation.

 

[MNoBody]

isn't this "sin" imputed onto all the seed of adam/eve through what they did, and not specifically regarding any subsidiary "sins" the aforementioned seed may do after the fact?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You really can't convince anyone your opinion is better than Scripture.

I'm actually writing one to two sentence replies.

I said that I don't know why you think I'm trying to convince you of anything. Maybe you feel threatened because I'm challenging your opinions? (Even if you don't use the words, the context is the same)

I do not know: It is not personal.

If we pretend it is all roses and no thorns it could be.

Well, I never considered seeing god's blessings and positivism in human nature as fantasy view.

It would make more sense that god would keep me from drowning not save me once I've drowned.

Yes they are. Salvation needs to be asked for though. It doesn't come by osmosis.

I think I phrased it wrong. I tried to edit.

The wages of blessings is life.

I honestly know I am not internally deprived. That's just not my reality. I know people get depressed. I suffered from chronic depression myself. That. is horrible in itself-who would want to see themselves as spiritual depressed when they have someone to help them Not get into it in the first place?

Unless you like to be depressed so you can be saved?

God said we are all sinners and all need to be saved. If some poor folks are so demented or far gone, or clueless or whatever, that they think they have no sin, it changes nothing.

We are not all sinners (inherited sin?) and we do not all need to be saved.

Believers feel they need to be saved because they see their internal nature as bad for some reason. While their view is their view, making it everyone else's is totally inappropriate.

Jesus is True before we accept Him. Accepting Him does not make Him true!

For the believer only.

No one else.

 

[gnomon]

Mt 24:42 - Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I don't recognize a book regarding a very specific politic situation against the Romans as pertinent to today.

 

[gnomon]

Other pestilences were signs also. I notice that the time from the black plague till the Spanish Flu was longer than say, Ebola or Sars to Covind 19. So, it seems the intensity and frequency is more. That is what we look for, like a woman in labor. The pains get shorter and shorter apart.

You missed the plague that wiped out so many human beings between the Black Plague and the Spanish Flu. It's very well known. It was perhaps the greatest plague among humanity. In some communities it wiped out 80 percent of the population. This plague was spearheaded by a European community, there's your first hint, in an Age of Exploration, your second hint. Much of it driven in the name of Christendom. Not all, but much of it.

 

[izzy88]

When we sin, it isn't a separation from god.

That depends entirely on what your god is. If your god is truth, beauty, justice, and love, as the Judeo-Christian god is, then sin is - by definition - a separation from God. But if you worship pleasure, or the self, or anything else in Creation, then your sin may actually unite you more with your god. It's all relative.

As per christianity, we don't all believe we have sinful nature that causes us to sin-it's our choice (in most cases, let's say) rather than a pull to temptation.

You don't believe human beings have a temptation to sin? You don't believe our natures are imperfect and conflicted, that it's often a great struggle to do what's right even if we know that it's right?

You don't need to believe that this nature is a result of the Fall, but I don't see how anyone could deny the reality of our "fallen" nature, itself.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That depends entirely on what your god is. If your god is truth, beauty, justice, and love, as the Judeo-Christian god is, then sin is - by definition - a separation from God. But if you worship pleasure, or the self, or anything else in Creation, then your sin may actually unite you more with your god. It's all relative.

There isn't a black and white in this, though. That and worship of pleasure, self, and creation is not bad in and of itself. Both bring truth, beauty, justice, and love. Yes. It is relative.

You don't believe human beings have a temptation to sin? You don't believe our natures are imperfect and conflicted, that it's often a great struggle to do what's right even if we know that it's right?

No. I don't believe our natures are imperfect and conflicted. When I suffered from chronic depression, I thought this. Now that I'm not, I'm learning to get back in touch with my true nature. Imperfection is in the eye of the beholder. It's also depressing and counterproductive to living a blessed life.

Yes. People are tempted to sin but I disagree it has to do with our natures. We have conflict with our actions because inside, we are not imperfect. Yet, our society, beliefs, etc make us think that is so. So, we struggle trying to get back to how we are (presently) instead of going back and forth with we should do this and they should do that.

You don't need to believe that this nature is a result of the Fall, but I don't see how anyone could deny the reality of our "fallen" nature, itself.

There isn't a fallen nature. I never thought of it as denial from my perspective because I never held the belief in order to deny it. Others say I deny their belief but thankfully, I never had that to where it's a burden to choose their views and mine.

I don't know where I'd be if I thought I was fallen and couldn't get up.

If god gives blessings and protects, wouldn't it make sense to lean on him as so Not to fall rather than see yourself fallen in order for him to pick you up?

Isn't the point not to fall in the first place?