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Do You All Want the End of Humanity?

WhyIsThatSo

Well-Known Member

The "Christ" has always been here on this earth.
He never left at all, and has been here since the "body" of Jesus was transformed,
over 2000 years ago.

There is no literal "second coming" , not as you and others understand it.
"Christ" (Jesus) is "IN" some people (flesh), yesterday, today, and forever.
I mean, what do you think a "Christian" is ?

You have your Bible to tell you this, so don't take my word for it.
On second thought, DO take my word for it.
Because my words are HIS WORDS.

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but TEST the spirits to see whether they are from God,
for many false prophets have gone out into the world."

"This is how you will know the Spirit of God: EVERY SPIRIT THAT CONFESSES THAT JESUS CHRIST
HAS COME IN THE FLESH is from God "

"But every spirit that does not confess Jesus (has come in the flesh), is NOT from God.
This is the spirit of ANTICHRIST, which you have heard is coming, and NOW is already in the world "
(1John 4:1-3)
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...Most crime is carried out by religious people, statistics on the religiosity of prison inmates in several countries confirm this...

Yes, but the crucial statistic is, how many of them were religious when they did the crime. It is possible that all religious people in jail are either innocent really or became religious in the jail. And if we notice that Christian teaching is, don’t steal, lie, murder, how could any Christian end up in jail really? Anyway, I don’t think religions can be blamed on crimes, unless the religion commands to do them and even then I think people are responsible of their own actions.

...So my idea is get rid of all religion and the crime rate will be cut by at least 93%, possibly more.

I think that is almost funny joke. If you remove religion that says, love your enemies, I think you can assume that the crime rate will grow greatly. And eventually prisons will have only people who are against violence and crime. I think it can already be seen in that people who have the traditional values are treated as bad and people who are “modern” “liberals”, who care only about good feelings and pleasure from them, are heroes of this time. In my opinion secular world is sick and evil.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Your demonstrative bias, assumptive statements with no quotes to confirm, lack of ability to answer the question, your evasive answers, your use of fallacies, your goal post moving, your use of the tactics that you accused Christians of doing... make your position quite... well...

irrelevant.

You will have to do much better if you want to convince people. It makes me wonder if you ever were a Christian or whether you simply learned about Christianity and declared yourself a Christian.


Pure projection
 

WhyIsThatSo

Well-Known Member
Yes, but the crucial statistic is, how many of them were religious when they did the crime. It is possible that all religious people in jail are either innocent really or became religious in the jail. And if we notice that Christian teaching is, don’t steal, lie, murder, how could any Christian end up in jail really? Anyway, I don’t think religions can be blamed on crimes, unless the religion commands to do them and even then I think people are responsible of their own actions.



I think that is almost funny joke. If you remove religion that says, love your enemies, I think you can assume that the crime rate will grow greatly. And eventually prisons will have only people who are against violence and crime. I think it can already be seen in that people who have the traditional values are treated as bad and people who are “modern” “liberals”, who care only about good feelings and pleasure from them, are heroes of this time. In my opinion secular world is sick and evil.

What "religion" says, and what people do, are two different things.
You can say "love your enemies" till you are blue in the face,
but it will not do (change) anything.

NOTHING changes, until the person changes.
And the change needed is in the "heart" (mind/spirit).
Then that person "cannot sin".

"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains IN him; and HE CANNOT SIN, because he is born of God "
(1 John 3:9)
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Pure projection
evidenced by what you have not done and what you have said. ;)

Please remember that Christianity is based on a NEW Covenant - not the MOSAIC covenant. That is why I asked "Where did Jesus support your position?" - of course, you couldn't answer it as there is nothing that would support your position.

For an example - support for murder:

Anger 21 “You’re familiar with the commandment that the older generation was taught, ‘Do not murder or you will be judged.’ 22 But I’m telling you, if you hold anger in your heart toward a fellow believer, you are subject to judgment.

He not only did not support murder but went to the root - held anger in your heart.

A giant step beyond not liking or supporting murder.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Yes, but the crucial statistic is, how many of them were religious when they did the crime. It is possible that all religious people in jail are either innocent really or became religious in the jail. And if we notice that Christian teaching is, don’t steal, lie, murder, how could any Christian end up in jail really? Anyway, I don’t think religions can be blamed on crimes, unless the religion commands to do them and even then I think people are responsible of their own actions.

Ah the old apologist gambit? I find it interesting that every time the statistics for religiosity are brought up a devout Christian come back with 'ah, but...' they are so keen on this idea that you would actually think they would have commissioned a comprehensive survey on when a prisoner took up their faith. As far as i know this hasn't happened... But if you can show otherwise...

Christian teaching? I think not, i think that is more christian propaganda. I, for one, have read the bible and biblical teaching in 85% of the bible is that its ok to commit genocide if the people don't live up to your expectations, it's ok to commit murder, steal the property of the victim including their wives and daughters and use them as sex slaves. Such teaching instills an attitude in some people. An attitude of god is on my side so what i do is ok.



I think that is almost funny joke. If you remove religion that says, love your enemies, I think you can assume that the crime rate will grow greatly. And eventually prisons will have only people who are against violence and crime. I think it can already be seen in that people who have the traditional values are treated as bad and people who are “modern” “liberals”, who care only about good feelings and pleasure from them, are heroes of this time. In my opinion secular world is sick and evil.

The statistics seem to think otherwise.

Methinks you have a very biased view of liberals, is that christian teaching of love your enemies except the ones you don't like. If that's religious thinking then you prove my point
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
evidenced by what you have not done and what you have said. ;)

Please remember that Christianity is based on a NEW Covenant - not the MOSAIC covenant. That is why I asked "Where did Jesus support your position?" - of course, you couldn't answer it as there is nothing that would support your position.

For an example - support for murder:

Anger 21 “You’re familiar with the commandment that the older generation was taught, ‘Do not murder or you will be judged.’ 22 But I’m telling you, if you hold anger in your heart toward a fellow believer, you are subject to judgment.

He not only did not support murder but went to the root - held anger in your heart.

A giant step beyond not liking or supporting murder.


Foot stomping and strawmen don't help, facts do.
 

WhyIsThatSo

Well-Known Member
Yes, but the crucial statistic is, how many of them were religious when they did the crime. It is possible that all religious people in jail are either innocent really or became religious in the jail. And if we notice that Christian teaching is, don’t steal, lie, murder, how could any Christian end up in jail really? Anyway, I don’t think religions can be blamed on crimes, unless the religion commands to do them and even then I think people are responsible of their own actions.



I think that is almost funny joke. If you remove religion that says, love your enemies, I think you can assume that the crime rate will grow greatly. And eventually prisons will have only people who are against violence and crime. I think it can already be seen in that people who have the traditional values are treated as bad and people who are “modern” “liberals”, who care only about good feelings and pleasure from them, are heroes of this time. In my opinion secular world is sick and evil.

What "religion" says, and what people do, are two different things.
You can say "love your enemies" till you are blue in the face,
but it will not do (change) anything.

NOTHING changes, until the person changes.
And the change needed is in the "heart" (mind/spirit).
Then that person "cannot sin".

"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains IN him; and HE CANNOT SIN, because he is born of God "
(1 John 3:9)
evidenced by what you have not done and what you have said. ;)

Please remember that Christianity is based on a NEW Covenant - not the MOSAIC covenant. That is why I asked "Where did Jesus support your position?" - of course, you couldn't answer it as there is nothing that would support your position.

For an example - support for murder:

Anger 21 “You’re familiar with the commandment that the older generation was taught, ‘Do not murder or you will be judged.’ 22 But I’m telling you, if you hold anger in your heart toward a fellow believer, you are subject to judgment.

He not only did not support murder but went to the root - held anger in your heart.

A giant step beyond not liking or supporting murder.
Ah the old apologist gambit? I find it interesting that every time the statistics for religiosity are brought up a devout Christian come back with 'ah, but...' they are so keen on this idea that you would actually think they would have commissioned a comprehensive survey on when a prisoner took up their faith. As far as i know this hasn't happened... But if you can show otherwise...

Christian teaching? I think not, i think that is more christian propaganda. I, for one, have read the bible and biblical teaching in 85% of the bible is that its ok to commit genocide if the people don't live up to your expectations, it's ok to commit murder, steal the property of the victim including their wives and daughters and use them as sex slaves. Such teaching instills an attitude in some people. An attitude of god is on my side so what i do is ok.





The statistics seem to think otherwise.

Methinks you have a very biased view of liberals, is that christian teaching of love your enemies except the ones you don't like. If that's religious thinking then you prove my point


Ah the old apologist gambit? I find it interesting that every time the statistics for religiosity are brought up a devout Christian come back with 'ah, but...' they are so keen on this idea that you would actually think they would have commissioned a comprehensive survey on when a prisoner took up their faith. As far as i know this hasn't happened... But if you can show otherwise...
Christian teaching? I think not, i think that is more christian propaganda. I, for one, have read the bible and biblical teaching in 85% of the bible is that its ok to commit genocide if the people don't live up to your expectations, it's ok to commit murder, steal the property of the victim including their wives and daughters and use them as sex slaves. Such teaching instills an attitude in some people. An attitude of god is on my side so what i do is ok.





The statistics seem to think otherwise.

Methinks you have a very biased view of liberals, is that christian teaching of love your enemies except the ones you don't like. If that's religious thinking then you prove my point


The 'God' of the old testament is NOT the true God (Father),
that's why he had Jesus put to death, because Christ (Jesus) ratted him out.

He has a penchant for "murder", just as you can tell by reading the OT.
 

WhyIsThatSo

Well-Known Member
Ah the old apologist gambit? I find it interesting that every time the statistics for religiosity are brought up a devout Christian come back with 'ah, but...' they are so keen on this idea that you would actually think they would have commissioned a comprehensive survey on when a prisoner took up their faith. As far as i know this hasn't happened... But if you can show otherwise...

Christian teaching? I think not, i think that is more christian propaganda. I, for one, have read the bible and biblical teaching in 85% of the bible is that its ok to commit genocide if the people don't live up to your expectations, it's ok to commit murder, steal the property of the victim including their wives and daughters and use them as sex slaves. Such teaching instills an attitude in some people. An attitude of god is on my side so what i do is ok.





The statistics seem to think otherwise.

Methinks you have a very biased view of liberals, is that christian teaching of love your enemies except the ones you don't like. If that's religious thinking then you prove my point

Listen carefully Christine,
You are already one step ahead of these people in here who claim to be "religious",
by you recognizing the fact that there is something wrong with a "God" who kills and
murders out of "anger" "jealousy", "vengeance", etc.

You at least can "see" that, where as they are still "blinded" by the "god of this world".
I'm only trying to show you that you don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
What "religion" says, and what people do, are two different things.
You can say "love your enemies" till you are blue in the face,
but it will not do (change) anything.

Yes, that would be a different definition of "religion". Not wrong, just different.
 

WhyIsThatSo

Well-Known Member
No, I don't agree.

There is no "lawlessness or lawless" unless there is a law. Where there is no law, there is no sin.

That's correct.....and the "law" is "LOVE"

"We KNOW that the law is NOT made for a righteous person, but for the LAWLESS and insubordinate,
for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane. for murderers of fathers and murderers of
mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for slave traders and perjurers, etc..."
(1 Timothy 1:9-10)
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
That's correct.....and the "law" is "LOVE"

"We KNOW that the law is NOT made for a righteous person, but for the LAWLESS and insubordinate,
for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane. for murderers of fathers and murderers of
mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for slave traders and perjurers, etc..."
(1 Timothy 1:9-10)


Yes.. but not at the expense of other scripture:

Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. (That is you and me)

So
, we are righteous not by the works of the law but because of love which covers a multitude of sins. But we were ALL under sin but Jesus was made to be sin so that we would be made the righteousness of God.

In Living in the law of love will fulfill the law. But living the law of love is a faith walk for we are justified by faith.
 

WhyIsThatSo

Well-Known Member
Yes.. but not at the expense of other scripture:

Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. (That is you and me)

So
, we are righteous not by the works of the law but because of love which covers a multitude of sins. But we were ALL under sin but Jesus was made to be sin so that we would be made the righteousness of God.

In Living in the law of love will fulfill the law. But living the law of love is a faith walk for we are justified by faith.

I will try to explain this as best I can without writing a book, ok .
The first verse you quoted (Romans 4:15) says it all really, if you can understand it properly.
"the law brings wrath" means that the "god of this world" gave his creatures a moral law,

that in truth is just the "law of Karma".....the Law of Cause and Consequences (Effect).
The problem is that this Law is "blind", like the "God" that created this world.
I'm sure you have seen the very icon of our own system of judicial law, right ?

The "Lady Justice" with the blindfold on, with the pair of "balances" in her hands ?
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I will try to explain this as best I can without writing a book, ok .
The first verse you quoted (Romans 4:15) says it all really, if you can understand it properly.
"the law brings wrath" means that the "god of this world" gave his creatures a moral law,

No... I don't think that is correct and certainly the context of Romans 4 is about God and not the god of this world:


Revelation 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

God also has wrath although we are in a season of grace.

The Law was created by God and not the god of this world.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I do not understand why you said "evidence was incontrovertible for every believer who claimed the 2nd coming was coming during every generation" because Jesus never came. Claiming Jesus IS coming is not the same as having evidence that Jesus DID come. No Christian claims that Jesus HAS come. They simply believe he IS coming. One cannot have evidence for something that has not happened yet.

All those who said he IS coming during their generation have been WRONG, even though they CLAIMED to have incontrovertible evidence.
That is true, they were wrong if they made that claim.
I see that you however are claiming that Christ already HAS returned and that you have incontrovertible evidence that this is so. Please DO share it with us. What is the single MOST compelling prophecy that you say can't be interpreted any other way that provides verifiable evidence that Christ has already returned? Where exactly is Christ at this particular moment?
There are so many prophecies but Micah 7:12 is a good one.

Please note that Baha’u’llah had no control over His own destiny for the last 40 years of His Life after He declared His mission because He was deemed a prisoner of the government He was banished and exiled from place to place. The following prophecy was fulfilled by these exiles and banishments.

Map of Baháʼu'lláh's banishments

upload_2020-3-11_19-50-45.png


Micah 7:12“In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.”

He shall come from Assyria: At that time Assyria was a large area. Baha’u’llah and His family lived in the part that was Persia, now Iran, in the city of Tihran.

and from the fortified cities: Baha’u’llah was banished from city to city: After being released from the Black Pit dungeon in Tihran in 1852, His family and companions had only a short time before being sent to the fortified city of Baghdad. While living in Baghdad, He gained such a large following that the enemies where shocked. Right away He was banished again, this time to the fortified city of Istanbul.

The Governor of the city refused many times to fulfill the orders that he received to banish Him again. Finally forced to follow orders, Baha’u’llah was banished again to the fortified city of Adrianople. He was honored and praised, and shown respect everywhere, until He was finally sent to the most horrific of all places, the fortress of Akka, where it was expected that He would succumb to the terrible conditions.

and from the fortress even to the river: It was while in Baghdad that the Tigris river became a special place, as Baha’u’llah crossed it to the Ridvan Garden. April 21, 1863 was the fulfillment of prophecy, as that was when Baha’u’llah declared to those around Him His Station as the Manifestation of God.

and from sea to sea: After His banishment in Baghdad, His exile was by way of the Black Sea. Still a prisoner He crossed the Black Sea from Sinope on His way to Constantinople. After the banishment in Adrianople, He crossed the Mediterranean Sea from Gallipolis in Turkey, embarking at Alexandria, Egypt, then on to the fortress of 'Akka, the most desolate of cities.

and from mountain to mountain: The time in Baghdad was turbulent with opposition. To protect His family and companions Baha’u’llah went to the Kurdistan mountains. There He lived in poverty, but the area was magnetized by His presence. After two years, He was persuaded to return to Baghdad.

The other mountain was in Israel, Mount Carmel, where He had docked before His final journey to Akka. Later He had a chance to return to Mount Carmel, to pitch His tent. Here He wrote the Tablet Of Carmel, surrounded by pilgrims looking for the return of Christ to descend from heaven. Mount Carmel is the headquarters of the Baha’i Faith.

From: William Sears, Thief in the Night

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * *
You asked where Christ is at this particular moment. Jesus Christ is in the spiritual world at the Right Hand of God, which is simply a metaphor for being close to God. Baha’u’llah is with Jesus because He shares the same spirit with Jesus, what Baha’is refer to as the Christ Spirit.

Since you are a logical person, I hope you realize that if Baha’u’llah actually fulfilled the Bible prophecies, then it would make no sense for Jesus to come and re-fulfill them. Yet most Christians will continue to wait for the same man Jesus to come floating down out of the clouds till hell freezes over. Evidence is not something that matters much to Christians. If it mattered they would at least be willing to look at the evidence that Christ has returned.

Anyhow, please let me know if you want to see any more prophecies because I have many, many more. The Blooming Desert prophecies and the Mount Carmel prophecies are particularly good ones.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I did think we could work with Baha'i to save humanity, yet it is clear you're all quite determined to disregard the rest of the world's religious prophecy, even if that means the end of humanity - Just like all the other fake religions.
Since Baha’u’llah fulfilled all the OT and NT prophecies, as well as the prophecies of all the other major world religions, there is no need to disregard them.
 
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