If God exists, why does He allow suffering?

[Samantha Rinne]

This was the question that drove me away from Christianity.

What spontaneously comes to my mind is Epicurus' trilemma:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

Catholics believe in something I would now call similar to karma. They believe you consciously suffer something and then offer it up to God in atonement for you or others, compensating bad deeds which such a "good" deed. They believe suffering endured in such way is "very valuable".

And this is because you don't understand Christianity. You're basically a Jew or Muslim, because you see God as some faceless old guy in the clouds who just waves his hand and solves your problems because he acts like a robot.

" We played the flute for you and you did not dance, we wailed and you did not mourn. "

You're treating God like a parent who a kid takes it for granted that when their toy breaks, they'll get a new one. So he's malevolent because he wants you to stop breaking toys? Or is it just that he is tired of entitlement?
When you stop treating God like an object, and start caeing for the person, things tend to go smoother.

Is he able and willing? Yes, of course. But evil comes from a variety of sources. For instance, what would happen if God voided free will? You'd start to see ppl basically behaving like the lobotomized, unable to make decisions. There is also the fact rhat evil isn't the clear cut thing you think. Used to be pretty liberal then went conservative. I can fully see then mindset of liberals and even though this is now wrong to me, the idea of going too far is also evil. For instance, to stop crime everywhere the state would be willing to set up policemen at every corner, and might be able to. But this doesn't mean they SHOULD because cops might then behave like Storm Troopers in Star Wars, and search every home dor contraband. Do you see the difference?

And let's talk about the last one. Christianity says God is among us. This doesn't just mean there is a single God kinda like Superman in the crowd, it also at other times implies that all of us are God in fragment. So tell me, since you are God, are you willing to answer my prayers? Are you able? And yet, you are still part of the body of Christ.

 

[Earthtank]

Hey there. You look troubled as if the weight of the world is upon your shoulders. Friend, do not be disheartened and know that when the chips are down and everyone abandons you, Jesus still loves you. He will carry the burden of your sins. For those who are oppressed Christ will ease your suffering. Do not be afraid or perturbed.

Many of us are familiar with such a narrative in Christianity where suffering has meaning and a remedy is offered to alleviate misery. How that kind of narrative resonates is the topic of this OP.

We all experience loss, pain and inevitably our own mortality. We all know first hand suffering exists. So if there really is a God, does that God truly care and what is God’s purpose in allowing suffering?

Do religions other than Christianity provide similar narrative or is the a substantial difference in perspective?

If there is no God, is there harm in finding comfort in stories like those in the Bible? What should be our best response as we inevitably face adversity?

What does the Bahai faith say about this?

 

[Conceivia]

I know everyone has their own views on God and the Bible, and here's mine:

The entire purpose of the Bible, is to create World Peace and end poverty, and pretty much end all suffering and solve all the problems of mankind. The objective is to create Heaven on Earth.

If you don't believe this, ask yourself one thing. Does God love us? Because if God truly loves us, than this is what God would do.

Do you think this is not possible? If God created us, than we have enough love in us, to make this possible. All we need, is the right system of society. If you believe we human beings are not capable of this, than what you are saying is that God screwed up. That God created us... in his own image... flawed at the very core.

The reason the churches say that God does not want World Peace, is because Jesus came to bring division and war and hatred, which he did by bringing the Antichrist.

Unfortunately, these are people who are incapable of understanding complex strategy. People who think the only way to put out a fire, is to use water. In the real world, however, when a fire is totally out of control, the only way to put out the fire, is to use fire. When it gets really, really, bad, you have to fight fire with fire. Likewise, when hatred gets that bad, you have to fight hatred with hatred.

'Course, you all think you know better than God anyway, so I don't know why I'm telling you this... Maybe some one will listen...

 

[Trailblazer]

I know everyone has their own views on God and the Bible, and here's mine:

The entire purpose of the Bible, is to create World Peace and end poverty, and pretty much end all suffering and solve all the problems of mankind. The objective is to create Heaven on Earth.

Can you tell me what is in the Bible that has the capacity to end poverty, pretty much end all suffering, solve all the problems of mankind, and create Heaven on Earth?

If you don't believe this, ask yourself one thing. Does God love us? Because if God truly loves us, than this is what God would do.

Yes, that is what you noted above is God's Purpose for humanity, but what makes you think that the Bible is going to accomplish that Purpose? I mean we have had the Bible for 2000 years and it has not accomplished that Purpose yet. What is going to change?

 

[PearlSeeker]

In the real world, however, when a fire is totally out of control, the only way to put out the fire, is to use fire. When it gets really, really, bad, you have to fight fire with fire. Likewise, when hatred gets that bad, you have to fight hatred with hatred.

Really? When it was really bad for Jesus, he said on the cross: Father forgive them...

Peace won with force is sustained only with force. So it's not real and not long-lasting.

 

[james dixon]

Have you pondered how a God who created the universe would be unable to have a choice in the matter of suffering (If you believe in that attribute of God that is)?

I believe “suffering” is a manmade term to identify the definition; i.e. it is a condition of mental state

We all have experienced the feeling of suffering in our lives but none so great as the suffering God experiences when He watches his children go astray.

Choose the Right Synonym for suffering

DISTRESS, SUFFERING, MISERY, AGONY mean the state of being in great trouble. DISTRESS implies an external and usually temporary cause of great physical or mental strain and stress. the hurricane put everyone in great distress SUFFERING implies conscious endurance of pain or distress. the suffering of famine victims MISERY stresses the unhappiness attending especially sickness, poverty, or loss. the homeless live with misery every day AGONY suggests pain too intense to be borne. in agony over the death of their child
Definition of SUFFERING

suf·fer·ing (sŭf′ər-ĭng, sŭf′rĭng)
n.
1. The condition of one who suffers; the bearing of pain or distress.
2. An instance of pain or distress.
suffering

God is suffering knowing if His Children do not listen, we will all become lost and never return

as I see it
-

 

[james dixon]

Can you tell me what is in the Bible that has the capacity to end poverty

in my view of things--
God is suffering; knowing if we do not listen, we will all become lost and never return

Poverty is another manmade concept that only exists in our minds.

I have seen small boys and girls playing in front of a thatched canopy hut which they felt was their home. What I was seeing were several children smiling, laughing and enjoying the warm of the sunshine.

Are they suffering-?

NO

Are they living in poverty-?

NO

They are living the dream of life
as I see it
Hope you are too -

 

[Trailblazer]

in my view of things--
God is suffering; knowing if we do not listen, we will all become lost and never return

I do not believe we can know if God is suffering, but God is not a human so God would not suffer as a human suffers. I believe that any depictions in the Bible of God being sad or angry or having regrets are anthropomorphisms. We cannot know anything about God except what is revealed by and reflected in the Manifestations of God (Messengers of God), Imo.

Poverty is another manmade concept that only exists in our minds.

I have seen small boys and girls playing in front of a thatched canopy hut which they felt was their home. What I was seeing were several children smiling, laughing and enjoying the warm of the sunshine.

Are they suffering-?

NO

Are they living in poverty-?

NO

They are living the dream of life
as I see it
Hope you are too -

I cannot really disagree with you on this. Anyone can be happy despite their material conditions as long as they have their basic needs met, such as food, clothing and shelter.

 

[firedragon]

I believe “suffering” is a manmade term to identify the definition; i.e. it is a condition of mental state

We all have experienced the feeling of suffering in our lives but none so great as the suffering God experiences when He watches his children go astray.

Choose the Right Synonym for suffering

DISTRESS, SUFFERING, MISERY, AGONY mean the state of being in great trouble. DISTRESS implies an external and usually temporary cause of great physical or mental strain and stress. the hurricane put everyone in great distress SUFFERING implies conscious endurance of pain or distress. the suffering of famine victims MISERY stresses the unhappiness attending especially sickness, poverty, or loss. the homeless live with misery every day AGONY suggests pain too intense to be borne. in agony over the death of their child
Definition of SUFFERING

suf·fer·ing (sŭf′ər-ĭng, sŭf′rĭng)
n.
1. The condition of one who suffers; the bearing of pain or distress.
2. An instance of pain or distress.
suffering

God is suffering knowing if His Children do not listen, we will all become lost and never return

as I see it
-

That doesnt respond to the query i made. But thanks.

 

[Conceivia]

Can you tell me what is in the Bible that has the capacity to end poverty, pretty much end all suffering, solve all the problems of mankind, and create Heaven on Earth?

Yes, that is what you noted above is God's Purpose for humanity, but what makes you think that the Bible is going to accomplish that Purpose? I mean we have had the Bible for 2000 years and it has not accomplished that Purpose yet. What is going to change?

2000 years is nothing for God. For some reason, people think if it does not happen right now, it will never happen. We assume that time passes the same for God as it does for us. The Bible tells us that a day of the Lord is 1000 years.

As for what in the Bible has the capacity to end poverty and end all suffering and solve all the problems of mankind and create Heaven on Earth, this is done with a new form of society. Jesus' Apostles created a sort of prototype of this, but they did not get it fully right, and it was overthrown and re-purposed by Rome. It is not supposed to be focused on worship. We are not supposed to create graven images and worship them, as the churches do. It is about having the correct priorities in life. About knowing what truly is important, and what is not so important. About getting our priorities straight.

Jesus told us that his death would bring someone, who would show mankind the way. He said that person would come in his name. This means, he will not be the same person, but will be acting on behave of Jesus, doing the work of Jesus. This is the person who will end poverty and bring World Peace, and save mankind, by preventing World War 3, or at least preventing mankind from being completely wiped out.

I believe that person is me, but feel free to look for another, who has a plan to save mankind. The important thing is that you do something, not just sit around and wait for the end.

Here's a video that will tell more of God's plan.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus told us that his death would bring someone, who would show mankind the way. He said that person would come in his name. This means, he will not be the same person, but will be acting on behave of Jesus, doing the work of Jesus. This is the person who will end poverty and bring World Peace, and save mankind, by preventing World War 3, or at least preventing mankind from being completely wiped out.

I believe that person is me, but feel free to look for another, who has a plan to save mankind. The important thing is that you do something, not just sit around and wait for the end.

I believe that person was Baha'u'llah, who declared His Mission in 1863, so I do not have to sit around and wait for the end. He presented a carefully laid out plan to end poverty, bring World Peace and save mankind.

 

[Conceivia]

Really? When it was really bad for Jesus, he said on the cross: Father forgive them...

Peace won with force is sustained only with force. So it's not real and not long-lasting.

I don't understand. Are you calling that a win? That Jesus asked God to forgive them? They still killed Jesus. Anyway, God was not ever angry at the people for killing Jesus, it was always God's plan that they do so. It made no difference that Jesus asked him to forgive them.

I didn't say peace would be won with force. When you fight fire with fire, it is not the fire that wins the battle. It is the use of your brain that wins the battle. The fire is only a tool. You force the fire to use up all its resources, and it eventually kills itself. It is intelligence that wins, not the tools.

If you have ten enemies, all armed with tanks, and you have only a sling shot... Do you use the sling shot to fight them? Or do you get them to fight each other? What Jesus did, was get them to fight each other. He prevented them from uniting into one super power force, that we would have no chance of ever overcoming.

Those of us who are working on World Peace, have a situation similar to a small group of people armed with a sling shots, and fighting against an army of tanks. Yet, we still think we can win the battle. Part of this, is because we know that if we fail, the human race will become extinct. The other part, for some of us, is the believe that God is guiding us, and all we need to do, is follow God's guidance and we will win. I believe, that God's intelligence, will lead us to victory. Obviously we don't pull out our sling shots and start shooting, because we are hopelessly out gunned. We use our brains.

Watch the video I just posted in another reply, and you'll see.

 

[Trailblazer]

Here's a video that will tell more of God's plan.

That was a good video, very informative.
There is nothing I can disagree with.

I also believe in world peace. So how do you think world peace is going to come about?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Hey there. You look troubled as if the weight of the world is upon your shoulders. Friend, do not be disheartened and know that when the chips are down and everyone abandons you, Jesus still loves you. He will carry the burden of your sins. For those who are oppressed Christ will ease your suffering. Do not be afraid or perturbed.

Many of us are familiar with such a narrative in Christianity where suffering has meaning and a remedy is offered to alleviate misery. How that kind of narrative resonates is the topic of this OP.

We all experience loss, pain and inevitably our own mortality. We all know first hand suffering exists. So if there really is a God, does that God truly care and what is God’s purpose in allowing suffering?

Do religions other than Christianity provide similar narrative or is the a substantial difference in perspective?

If there is no God, is there harm in finding comfort in stories like those in the Bible? What should be our best response as we inevitably face adversity?

I find it strange that people blame God for suffering they have brought upon themself from past action, God did not ask people to do wrong actions, speech or thought. But when morality dropped (have been dropping for ages) humans experience suffering and pain.
Then again it is wise to look at every spiritual scripture and see that there is a red line between everyone, where it is clear that we humans were brought in to this realm because of our own wrongdoings a long long time ago. So to me, it sounds so strange when someone curses God for not doing what humans want God to do. (it should be the other way around)
I do not know the answer to who created the human race in the first place But call it source or cosmos, or God it really does not matter in the situation the human race has become stuck in.
But the way i see it (probably other answers too) It is only by purifying our own beings that we can realize that what human beings are doing to each other and to ourself, is far from what a God or other heavenly being would want us to do. because we can not save ourselves if we do not try.

 

[Dawnofhope]

What does the Bahai faith say about this?

There are many things that could be said about suffering from a Baha’i perspective. It is clear that suffering is an inevitable part of our lives. We will all experience loss, will become sick, be hurt by others and eventually our physical bodies will die. We will most likely experience many tests and difficulties. Some of these will also be a result of our own actions or inactions and at other times because of others. However our fundamental purpose in this world is a spiritual one where we should come to draw closer to God. Suffering can enable us to grow and develop spirituality.

I thought you might be interested in this link that explores the theme a little more.

Suffering and the Problem of Evil

 

[PearlSeeker]

I don't understand. Are you calling that a win? That Jesus asked God to forgive them? They still killed Jesus. Anyway, God was not ever angry at the people for killing Jesus, it was always God's plan that they do so. It made no difference that Jesus asked him to forgive them.

You said when hatred gets bad you have to fight hatred with hatred. Well, Jesus on the cross didn't fight hatred with hatred. Forgiveness makes a difference because Jesus didn't hate them back. Love won in his heart. And yes, they killed his body but they didn't kill him. "Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it."

If you have ten enemies, all armed with , and you have only a sling shot... Do you use the sling shot to fight them? Or do you get them to fight each other? What Jesus did, was get them to fight each other.

Jesus didn't say: I won because I will make you destroy each other. That would be hate and revenge not love. What you're teaching is negative philosophy. Jesus ont the contrary taught to love your enemies, bless them, pray for them ... All who follow him are to be one ... "Whoever does not gather with me scatters." He didn't make governing people and forces of darkness to fight each other. He didn't have to. They alone are prone to entropy. Political divisions in the the pursuit of power were always there in human history. It's not the work of Jesus. What he brought is not political. It's primarily a spiritual light. A religious renewal. That caused a different division. You are interpreting "I have not come to bring peace, but a sword" out of context. Intertextuality shows a different meaning: "If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also." We know what happened to prophets, Jesus and his followers ... Spiritual light makes no division because it's enlightening every man. What makes separation is that some accept light and some still like darkness more. If light is increased the resistance against light is also big. If someone is reveling real truth and real good he is also disclosing fake truth and fake good. So such man becomes a thorn in others flesh. Before there will be global peace there will be tension and a cataclysm.

Watch the video I just posted in another reply, and you'll see.

Thanks, I watched it. I agree that in the future kingdom of peace God will be the highest authority of all. Man's kingdoms will come to an end. However I don't agree Roman and Orthodox churches belong to secular governments although in history there was some degeneration. I already argued for Jesus as peacemaker. Who is in your opnion the peacemaker that came after Jesus? The promised Comforter in the Bible is the Holy Spirit, that just continues the work of Jesus. It's the same peacemaking work.

 

[Conceivia]

I believe that person was Baha'u'llah, who declared His Mission in 1863, so I do not have to sit around and wait for the end. He presented a carefully laid out plan to end poverty, bring World Peace and save mankind.

I don't know his plan, but do you really believe that God would send someone to bring World Peace, and have it not be achieved in that person's lifetime? That may be ok as a plan to keep around, as a backup, but you really should be looking for something that will happen right now. Are you not paying attention to the insane risk mankind is at right now? Mankind could literally become extinct by any of multiple reasons, in a very sort time.

There is no where near enough progress made on that plan, since 1863, to qualify as a realistic plan to save mankind. If mankind survives another 20 years, without achieving World Peace, I will be truly amazed!!!

 

[Spirit of Light]

I know everyone has their own views on God and the Bible, and here's mine:

The entire purpose of the Bible, is to create World Peace and end poverty, and pretty much end all suffering and solve all the problems of mankind. The objective is to create Heaven on Earth.

If you don't believe this, ask yourself one thing. Does God love us? Because if God truly loves us, than this is what God would do.

Do you think this is not possible? If God created us, than we have enough love in us, to make this possible. All we need, is the right system of society. If you believe we human beings are not capable of this, than what you are saying is that God screwed up. That God created us... in his own image... flawed at the very core.

The reason the churches say that God does not want World Peace, is because Jesus came to bring division and war and hatred, which he did by bringing the Antichrist.

Unfortunately, these are people who are incapable of understanding complex strategy. People who think the only way to put out a fire, is to use water. In the real world, however, when a fire is totally out of control, the only way to put out the fire, is to use fire. When it gets really, really, bad, you have to fight fire with fire. Likewise, when hatred gets that bad, you have to fight hatred with hatred.

'Course, you all think you know better than God anyway, so I don't know why I'm telling you this... Maybe some one will listen...

Hate can never create peace one earth because human beings have become extremely selfish, so if we hate someone (we should not) they would give back the same hate, and then our own anger and hate again rise to a new level, and the spiral goes toward war. the only way to create peace on earth is to speak truthfully, have compassion for all living beings and have forbearance for those who try to harm us.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I don't know his plan, but do you really believe that God would send someone to bring World Peace, and have it not be achieved in that person's lifetime? That may be ok as a plan to keep around, as a backup, but you really should be looking for something that will happen right now. Are you not paying attention to the insane risk mankind is at right now? Mankind could literally become extinct by any of multiple reasons, in a very sort time.

There is no where near enough progress made on that plan, since 1863, to qualify as a realistic plan to save mankind. If mankind survives another 20 years, without achieving World Peace, I will be truly amazed!!!

God only gives human beings the tools to make peace, it is the human beings who must make peace within themself, and with others that can create peace on earth. Many human beings are lost because they only see anger and violence as a tool to create peace, But the love within them for other beings have been lost, so they can only see the "unfairness" that was brought upon themself, but actually, it was themself and their anger that brought suffering on them. Humans have to learn to understand, we are not human beings who are spiritual. we are spiritual beings who become human beings because of our own fault and attachments.

 

[Conceivia]

That was a good video, very informative.
There is nothing I can disagree with.

I also believe in world peace. So how do you think world peace is going to come about?

World Peace requires a new system of society. One which utilizes love, rather than selfishness, to motivate people. Jesus' Apostles demonstrated a prototype of this, but I believe they did not fully understand what was needed. Belief in God is not necessary. All can be accomplished, through belief in love.

People get confused when they try to worship God. They assume that God wants things like praise, which no truly intelligent being cares about. Even an intelligent human has no interest in praise from non-intelligent humans, and for God to want praise from humans is like humans wanting praise from ants. It is totally illogical. Idiots tend to praise idiots, that is how we get the presidents we get. Truly intelligent people, usually have very few people who like them, or like their ideas.

Unfortunately, this is also true of ideas for World Peace. The ideas that will work, are the ones, which no one listens to. The ideas that are to complicated for simple minds to understand. This is why we were told that God would send us a Savior. A person who would know what to do. I believe that is me, but no one will listen, until I can start showing proof. Until I start to actually save mankind. So, I have to do unbelievably amazing things, with a few thousand dollars of my own money, because no one wants to help, or cares about saving mankind.

I could focus my time on begging for money, to save mankind, from which I make about... $0.001 per hour for my time, or I can focus my time on trying to change my plan to something I can accomplish with my own money. What I find really funny, is people will spend $2 on a lottery ticket, with a one in a billion chance of winning, which if they win will more likely destroy their lives than help, but I can't get them to give $2 on a plan that will save their life, and the lives of 7 billion people, and literally create Heaven on Earth. The odds of success can't be calculated, but I am confident it will work. I put the odds at around between 5% and 70% depending on how I feel. I put the odds at me being the Savior that God has chosen, at 90%, but the odds that it is possible to save these humans is what I don't have so much confidence in.

The problem with our current system of society, is that money changes people. The money system creates poverty in some, and wealth and absolute uncaring in others. To fix this problem, we need to prevent money from changing people. I made a video which tells how we can begin the process of fixing this, in a way that at least some people seem to understand.

There is also information about my plan on my web sites. I've got several websites. There's one listed below, and you can follow the links to the others.