Yeah, right.
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A Texas Welcome...come on in.
- Thread starter Good-Ole-Rebel
- Start date
Stanyon
WWMRD?
this reminds me how much I hated Texas when I had the misfortune to live there for a couple of years.
Were you a home invader/burglar?
That was too funny for a mere <funny> froobal.
Texas weather/climate is enuf to keep me away.
(I'm not tough enuf.)
esmith
Veteran Member
how nice
esmith
Veteran Member
Of course I'm right....you do realize that don't you.....
Hogwash, that that verse means what you say. Did he tell them to defend themselves when the priests and soldiers came? Do you think he thought "two swords" was actually "enough" to defend themselves? And when one servant cut off the ear of one of those sent to get them, Jesus did not then command, "Fight! Every last one of you, fight for our lives!", or did he do the exact opposite of "defending themselves" by healing the servant's ear instead?
No. I think what he was saying was "it's enough, because you are not going to need them". And since you likely believe that scripture does not contradict itself between the different gospel authors account of this capture of Jesus, then you have to stack Luke's verse you cite, against Matthew's which says in 26:52, "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword".
Don't make Jesus a liar in your sad defense of right wing Christians loving guns and Jesus on equal footing as the way of God.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Killing when it is unnecessary, especially gloating about it and calling it good as the OP, it is bloodlust.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
I am referring specifically to needlessly killing as bloodlust. Shooting to maim, fear, those aren't bloodlust, but "welcome to Texas *bang*" like its a damn movie, yes, that is bloodlust. Doing it when there is no reason to do it, that is bloodlust.
Your utter lack of support for your assertions sure makes a compelling case.
halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
Just in case no "Christian" showed up to point out that we do not have unlimited rights (in God's eyes for "self defense"), but instead only very limited rights (in God's eyes) in how we use force....
By the words from Christ, we are to live towards this level:
"In everything, do to others as you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law..."
So, it means you put yourself in the other person's shoes and then ask in that (at least partly) unique situation what would you want others to do to you, and then that's the rule for our own action.
If I was so out of my mind and crazed enough to enter a place to shoot strangers, then I'd want whatever people there that were able to disarm me however needed, using force --yes, but...only the force that unique, one-time-ever situation required.
(It's always unique and one-time, in that a potential defender has a unique set of options in an instant of time, which might range very widely, including what cover is available, what other people are in danger, what weapon is being used by the attacker, how much time there is to make a plan, and on and on -- every last situation fully unique in all of time)
The minimum level of force needed by that particular unique situation, which will tragically at times mean the attacker will be killed. But for a real Christian, the aim is never to simply execute an attacker.
Just shooting them down when not absolutely necessary is not what someone truly following Christ would do, even if they did end up killing the attacker in some situations in order to save some innocent lives in that instant in time.
So, just like a good police officer, the defender will be able sometimes to disarm the attacker without firing a shot. Sometimes.
But if the attacker is actively shooting people in that instant in time, the options do narrow a lot. They have to be disarmed very rapidly in order to save the lives of various 3rd parties. And that sometimes will cause a risk that you'd severely injure them because you don't have any choice in that rapid situation where lives could be lost every second.
But God knows what is in our hearts, and what our intent is, and will judge all and Romans 2:6 God "will repay each one according to his deeds." (which is the main reason all need a Redeemer, because even a lot of little things like ignoring neighbors, gossiping at someone's expense and such count also)
By the words from Christ, we are to live towards this level:
"In everything, do to others as you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law..."
So, it means you put yourself in the other person's shoes and then ask in that (at least partly) unique situation what would you want others to do to you, and then that's the rule for our own action.
If I was so out of my mind and crazed enough to enter a place to shoot strangers, then I'd want whatever people there that were able to disarm me however needed, using force --yes, but...only the force that unique, one-time-ever situation required.
(It's always unique and one-time, in that a potential defender has a unique set of options in an instant of time, which might range very widely, including what cover is available, what other people are in danger, what weapon is being used by the attacker, how much time there is to make a plan, and on and on -- every last situation fully unique in all of time)
The minimum level of force needed by that particular unique situation, which will tragically at times mean the attacker will be killed. But for a real Christian, the aim is never to simply execute an attacker.
Just shooting them down when not absolutely necessary is not what someone truly following Christ would do, even if they did end up killing the attacker in some situations in order to save some innocent lives in that instant in time.
So, just like a good police officer, the defender will be able sometimes to disarm the attacker without firing a shot. Sometimes.
But if the attacker is actively shooting people in that instant in time, the options do narrow a lot. They have to be disarmed very rapidly in order to save the lives of various 3rd parties. And that sometimes will cause a risk that you'd severely injure them because you don't have any choice in that rapid situation where lives could be lost every second.
But God knows what is in our hearts, and what our intent is, and will judge all and Romans 2:6 God "will repay each one according to his deeds." (which is the main reason all need a Redeemer, because even a lot of little things like ignoring neighbors, gossiping at someone's expense and such count also)
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Good-Ole-Rebel
Well-Known Member
Why would a "real Christian" not simply want to do what Jesus explicitly commanded?
But I say to you, do not resist the evildoer.
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5:39 - New English Translation
having something and using something are not the same thing. otherwise, everyone would be guilty of doing something because they had something..
but again, sounds like texans killing each other.
Let's consider the definition of the word....
Definition of execute | Dictionary.com
The most applicable definitions....
#4 is the closest to your usage.
Is killing in self defense either murder or assassination?
Nah.
I won't allow us to slip into the post dictionary age.
Good-Ole-Rebel
Well-Known Member
Wrong. If those at the Federalist's at the Constitutional convention had their way, there would have been no 2nd amendment or Bill of Rights. The States who had to ratify the new Constitution, were expecting and demanding a Bill of Rights. That is who you can thank for the Bill of Rights.
The democrats then are not the democrats now. The republicans then are not the republicans now.
Good-Ole-Rebel
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
I understand celebrating that people survived the violence, but that's not quite what I mean by glorifying gun violence.
The passage from Luke says that the swords were "for fulfillment of prophecy."
The Gospels also say that Jesus rode a donkey and a colt at the same time "for fulfillment of prophecy," but for some reason the Christian gun nuts never latch onto that verse as advice they should follow today.
Good-Ole-Rebel
Well-Known Member
If you don't want to use it, why would you carry it? Foolish statement.
Whether both are Texans is immaterial.
Good-Ole-Rebel
Opinions will vary.