Religious Faith and life beyond this mortal realm

[ecco]

So imagine life without problems. No one hungers, no one is sick.

Yes. Now seriously think about life without problems, no one hungers, no one is sick - for all of eternity.

After 0.00000000000000000000000000000001% of eternity, you would gladly accept a final death.

 

[ecco]

Adam is man and Eve is our Soul. The tree of good and evil is our ability of mind.

Where is that written in Hebrew Scripture? Where is that written in Bahai scripture?

Or is that another something that you just made up?

 

[Neuropteron]

What does your faith or worldview have to say about an afterlife? Some world views see death as final whereas others see us having a soul that continues for eternity. How does an afterlife or lack thereof help us live the best we can in this world?

Gen 3:19 “For dust you were and to dust you will return”
According to this we were non-existent before our birth, at death we will return to non-existence.
(Eccl 9:5)

That is the reason the dead need a resurrection. Jesus said: I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life.(John 11:25)

 

[Dawnofhope]

Agreed that Jesus (perhaps, quite possibly), Mohammad and Bahaullah are historic, but that is the end of it. That proves nothing about their being Son/Messenger/Manifestation of any God or any divinity of their message. How does historicity validates what they said? In case of Hindus we had many historic teachers since Buddha's time and many before him, who were wise and humble enough not to make any claim of divinity but explained their view of what will be good for the people and the society.

That which is grounded in established history is an essential starting point. Of course my great grand mother was real but that doesn't make her a Manifestation of God. The evidence lies within the book attributed to their Teachings. Jesus claimed to be the 'Son of God'. He did not claim to be a Messenger of God or Manifestation. Muhammad claimed to be a Messenger of God. He did not claim to be a Manifestation or the 'Son of God'. Baha'u'llah claimed to be a Manifstation of God. Many Hindus attribute both Krishna and Buddha as being Avatars of Vishnu. The claims are not the same but are similar. They are titles, each providing insight into the nature of these Great Educators of humanity whose influence is unquestioned. Were they wise people? It is only through study of the Gospels, Quran and Vedas we can meaningfully answer those questions. Did they have special abilities and powers beyond this mortal realm? Through study of their Teachings and the influence they had on the course of history and continue to have, we have evidence. Admittedly the evidence will satisfy some and not others. So while we will not agree about the Divine origins of their Teachings, I hope we could agree on more than their having existed.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Thank you for saying “other” Christian denominations!

We appreciate that.

I am aware some of our Christian brothers and sisters will speak unkind words about your faith and mine, even denying we really believe in Christ and His Teachings at all. IMHO we are both followers of Christ. It does not bother me in the slightest if others curse my religion and consider me amongst the damned.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Where is that written in Hebrew Scripture? Where is that written in Bahai scripture?

Or is that another something that you just made up?

I am glad you asked that question as my thoughts had come from an early translation of a talk given by Abdul'baha.

That translation has been reviewed and it does give a different perspective.

This is the new translation of the full talk on Adam and Eve.

Some Answered Questions | Bahá’í Reference Library

An extract that puts a different light on the subject;

".... These verses of the Torah have therefore numerous meanings. We will explain one of them and will say that by “Adam” is meant the spirit of Adam and by “Eve” is meant His self. For in certain passages of the Sacred Scriptures where women are mentioned, the intended meaning is the human self. By “the tree of good and evil” is meant the material world, for the heavenly realm of the spirit is pure goodness and absolute radiance, but in the material world light and darkness, good and evil, and all manner of opposing realities are to be found... The meaning of the serpent is attachment to the material world....... By “the tree of life” is meant the highest degree of the world of existence, that is, the station of the Word of God and His universal Manifestation. (Some Answered Questions)

www.bahai.org/r/113689484

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Agreed that Jesus (perhaps, quite possibly), Mohammad and Bahaullah are historic, but that is the end of it. That proves nothing about their being Son/Messenger/Manifestation of any God or any divinity of their message. How does historicity validates what they said? In case of Hindus we had many historic teachers since Buddha's time and many before him, who were wise and humble enough not to make any claim of divinity but explained their view of what will be good for the people and the society.

Just so many humble saints and teachers the length and breadth of India, and beyond. Many scorned attention of any kind. Quite the opposite of this constant seeking attention. Very different paradigms. Many, in the recent centuries were seen by Abrahamics who immediately tried to make a Messiah of them. Fortunately, most were able to put a quick stop to that nonsense.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Many Hindus attribute both Krishna and Buddha as being Avatars of Vishnu. The claims are not the same but are similar. They are titles, each providing insight into the nature of these Great Educators of humanity whose influence is unquestioned. Were they wise people? It is only through study of the Gospels, Quran and Vedas we can meaningfully answer those questions. Did they have special abilities and powers beyond this mortal realm?

Krishna is mythology and BhagawadGita is from beginning of the Christian era, though the philosophies discussed in it must have existed before that time. Buddha being an avatara is a recognition of the strength of what he taught. I take it as a Hindu Nobel prize in Religion. What is a mortal realm and what is an immortal realm? What proof you have for that? What special powers did Jesus, Mohammad, Bahaullah or any other such claimant had?

We will explain one of them and will say that by “Adam” is meant the spirit of Adam and by “Eve” is meant His self. (Some Answered Questions)

Surely, Abdul Baha did not know about Y-Chromosomal Adam and Mitochondrial Eve. But if ignorance is revered why would one want to be knowledgeable?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I haven't really fact-checked whether this is 100% compatible with the Baha'i faith, though I usually put my own spin on things anyway...

All or almost all people go to an afterlife. A good one. Those less in tune with what God wanted, will be taught by God until they are ready.

I fathom it could be possible there may be a time when a person falls from grace though. So, I'm really not sure whether someone like Hitler, would or wouldn't go. To me, such a person is almost like the opposite of a manifestation of God, having a role, but that role being some some form of destruction and being guided by the lower self rather than God.

 

[YoursTrue]

No thank you, how much hell can one take.

Regards Tony

Remember, Tony, Jesus said the ruler (or prince) of the world was coming to get him. And he didn't mean his heavenly father. John 14:30 - "I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming, and he has no claim on Me," Also, to clarify, he earlier said, "Now judgment is upon this world; now the prince of this world will be cast out." So if it comforts you, this world is going to be judged.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Remember, Tony, Jesus said the ruler (or prince) of the world was coming to get him. And he didn't mean his heavenly father. John 14:30 - "I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming, and he has no claim on Me," Also, to clarify, he earlier said, "Now judgment is upon this world; now the prince of this world will be cast out." So if it comforts you, this world is going to be judged.

No doubt it is being judged.

Regards Tony

 

[YoursTrue]

No doubt it is being judged.

Regards Tony

Definitely. Thanks. True there are so many bad things that outweigh the good people claim to do. Reading the news about holdups, murders, and worse, it is obvious that any horrible thing can happen to anyone at any time. Plus, people are generally not set up to make others feel good.
No doubt many are doing good, depending on situation. But -- according to the Bible, God wanted Adam and Eve to live forever in paradisaic conditions, expanding that to the whole earth for all. Men, women, children, animals, etc. But of course that was not to be at that time. Yet it will come.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes. Now seriously think about life without problems, no one hungers, no one is sick - for all of eternity.

After 0.00000000000000000000000000000001% of eternity, you would gladly accept a final death.

I doubt it.

 

[osgart]

See posts #57 and #58. Then think long and hard.

I certainly can imagine life that is worth living forever and ever. But whether that's possible or not is another story.

No food dependence, glorious invincible bodies with no unworthy pains, the ability to trek endless distances, nothing but virtues to live, perfect superintelligence, throw in the u.s.s. Enterprise, portality, artificial life, endless dignified life forms, federation and Jedi cultures and civilizations, and alien world's and civilizations, music, fine art, and a one true wife, disciplines and challenges in everything, and time for perfect peaceful rest, love beyond ever measuring, and creation science for the ability to create anything. Create knowledge, and an infinity of things, and I sign up for eternal life.

Lol. Perhaps some noble adversaries too. None evil though.

Give me all that and I will

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Definitely. Thanks. True there are so many bad things that outweigh the good people claim to do.

I am more inclined to think there is more good being done and it will win the day.

Regards Tony

 

[YoursTrue]

That is false hope and wishfull thinking.

I get that it can bring people psychological comfort, but I also see it poisoning a lot of things and I think the comfort doesn't weigh up to the damage it does.




I think that an eternal afterlife, diminishes the value of actual life. I think the fact that life eventually ends is what makes it valueable and meaningfull.

In actuality, frankly, I believe that life ending renders it meaningless. If we know the end of life is death, and final death-- meaning no resurrection or future life possible--there is no hope. It is possible for people with no hope of everlasting life to do good things while alive, but for me, the true hope lies in the concept the Bible and Jesus Christ in the Bible put forth for a paradise on earth. I did not always have this hope, so I can tell you that I was one who had no hope and while I did some good things, I was a very unhappy individual. I am much, much better now that I realize what the Bible is saying. Not perfect. (Looking forward to that.) But better.

 

[YoursTrue]

I am more inclined to think there is more good being done and it will win the day.

Regards Tony

That is your idea, and many people do good things, that is true. But -- one must also understand what is good in the eyes of God. Let's take the idea of war, for instance. Many people martyr themselves to serve their country. Not only do they risk their lives but upon direction, will kill others. So either way, whether the soldier is killed or killed someone else, the merit is determined by one's conscience, as well as relationship with God. Perhaps a dire example, but the persons (just as an example) involved who were killed or did the killing did not "win the day," unless of course, one thinks he did. It's a long story, Tony. Regards to you also.

 

[YoursTrue]

I certainly can imagine life that is worth living forever and ever. But whether that's possible or not is another story.

No food dependence, the ability to trek endless distances, nothing but virtues to live, perfect superintelligence, throw in the u.s.s. Enterprise, portality, artificial life, endless dignified life forms, federation and Jedi cultures and civilizations, and alien world's and civilizations, music, fine art, and a one true wife, disciplines and challenges in everything, and time for perfect peaceful rest, love beyond ever measuring, and creation science for the ability to create anything. Create knowledge, and an infinity of things, and I sign up for eternal life.

Lol. Perhaps some noble adversaries too. None evil though.

Give me all that and I will

May I ask what you mean by no food dependence? I think about things like that sometimes. Our bodies were created to depend on food in order to live. The Bible says that food will be in abundance in the future.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

one must also understand what is good in the eyes of God.

Who knows God Will?
Who Understands God?
Who sees through God's eyes?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's a long story, Tony. Regards to you also.

The history of mankind is a long story and the story continues.

All the best, regards Tony