ecco
Veteran Member
Well, I guess I need to apologize. However, somewhere in the back of my mind, there is the thought that a Bahai had posted that he (and Bahais) believed that Jesus was just as mortal as Balullah.
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Religious Faith and life beyond this mortal realm
- Thread starter Dawnofhope
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Well, I guess I need to apologize. However, somewhere in the back of my mind, there is the thought that a Bahai had posted that he (and Bahais) believed that Jesus was just as mortal as Balullah.
ecco
Veteran Member
Here we go again. YOU quoted (above) some stuff from www.bahai.org that stated certain knowledge was contained in scripture. I asked YOU where in scripture this knowledge could be found. YOU tell me it is my responsibility to verify the information in your quoted post. You do this when you make assertions that you cannot support. I guess that's the Bahai way - bluff and hope no one notices.
ecco
Veteran Member
A favorite tactic of the woosters is to accuse skeptics of having closed minds.
However, skeptics:
- Have listened to woo nonsense for many years
- Have looked at the evidence for and against woo many times
- Have decided that woo is woo
One does not need to smell every dog turd to know that dog turds stink.
So, no. We do not have closed minds. We are just aware that the world is filled with gullible people and more people ready to exploit their gullibility.
ecco
Veteran Member
Yes, the stories are amazing.
Yes, the stories are witnessed by many people.
What's your point?
ecco
Veteran Member
Eternity is a long time regardless of where one is. You admit that it would be a long time if we had to live in this world. If you had the entire universe to live in you would still be bored by the repetitiveness of your existence. It may take much longer. But any fraction of eternity is still just a fraction of eternity.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I can imagine never getting bored because I am never bored in this life. So why, if life continued in another dimension, would I be bored? Besides that, as I said before, we will not be thinking in terms of time in the spiritual world as we do here, because there will be no time as we experience it here.
Bored is probably not the best word I can use to describe how I feel about THIS life. No, I would not want it to continue forever because there are so many things in THIS LIFE that I do not enjoy, but rather have to tolerate in order to live.... But I am never bored because I do not have time to get bored.
As long as my mind is active, I can never be bored and since there is always something new to learn, I can never be bored. Before I came to forums I was in college for over 15 years because I have always sought knowledge.... Now I am in my religious period of life so I seek knowledge of God, but I continue to be fascinated by people, since psychology was my most recent academic field. I can never be bored as long as I have posts to read and people to post to on forums. People and their different thoughts and perspectives are fascinating and there are always new people to learn from.
Why do you think that the spiritual world would be repetitive experience? You probably think that because you project your experience in this world onto the spiritual world, but the spiritual world will be NOTHING like this world. You will still be you, but that is the only thing that will be the same. Of course, I do not expect you to believe what Baha'u'llah wrote because you are not a Baha'i, but here it is:
“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157
“If any man be told that which hath been ordained for such a soul in the worlds of God, the Lord of the throne on high and of earth below, his whole being will instantly blaze out in his great longing to attain that most exalted, that sanctified and resplendent station…. The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 156
No matter the religion, scriptures do not contain any detailed depictions of the afterlife, we are just left hanging for the most part. I do not like that, but there is not much I can do about it but read books about it.
I cannot understand how anyone can be attached to this earthly life, but I am sure many/,most people have had a happier life than I have because the world would not function very well if everyone had a life like mine.
This life has never been a picnic for me, but I *believe* the spiritual worlds will be a lot better. That does not mean I am not frightened of dying, I am scared to death, because I do not like the unknown. But I do have faith in Baha'u'llah so I believe what He wrote. I have no idea what it actually means except very generally, but I just accept that I am not supposed to know, for the reason noted in the passage above.
“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes.You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 329
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
Well, the present is the afterlife of the past, and the future is the afterlife of the now. The only life we know how to build for the better or worse appears to be this one
Apology accepted.
Concepts in regards the Sonship and Divinity of Christ are important theological narratives to enable us to understand who Christ was and His Mission. They are not necessarily straight forward.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Why do you watch a movie if it's just going to end?
Why do you read a book if you're eventually going to finish it?
Why do you enjoy any experience whatsoever eventhough it's just going to end at some point?
Why do we value gold eventhough there isn't an infinite amount of it?
In fact, it seems that the less there is of something, the more valuable it becomes.
Both in material value as in emotional vaue.
If your favorite aunt that lives at the other side of the country is in town for a day, you're going to make the most of it as well, right? That one day would be more valuable to you then if she would be living nextdoor, yes? Then it would be just another day.
Hope for what, exactly?
You're going to have to be more specific.
I don't buy this.
I don't believe for a second that the actual or main reason for why you try to act properly and do good things in life, is your belief in some religion. I propose you merely attribute it to that, but really, you do it because you care about people and their wellbeing, as well as your own wellbeing.
This is why when people abbandon their religious beliefs and become atheists, they don't turn into serial killers.
That doesn't mean the bible is true nore that you couldn't be happy without holding such beliefs.
ecco
Veteran Member
Yada, yada, yada.I can imagine never getting bored because I am never bored in this life. So why, if life continued in another dimension, would I be bored? Besides that, as I said before, we will not be thinking in terms of time in the spiritual world as we do here, because there will be no time as we experience it here.
Bored is probably not the best word I can use to describe how I feel about THIS life. No, I would not want it to continue forever because there are so many things in THIS LIFE that I do not enjoy, but rather have to tolerate in order to live.... But I am never bored because I do not have time to get bored.
Before I came to forums I was in college for over 15 years because I have always sought knowledge.... Now I am in my religious period of life so I seek knowledge of God, but I continue to be fascinated by people, since psychology was my most recent academic field. I can never be bored as long as I have posts to read and people to post to on forums. People and their different thoughts and perspectives are fascinating and there are always new people to learn from.
Why do you think that the spiritual world would be repetitive experience? You probably think that because you project your experience in this world onto the spiritual world, but the spiritual world will be NOTHING like this world. You will still be you, but that is the only thing that will be the same. Of course, I do not expect you to believe what Baha'u'llah wrote because you are not a Baha'i, but here it is:
“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157
“If any man be told that which hath been ordained for such a soul in the worlds of God, the Lord of the throne on high and of earth below, his whole being will instantly blaze out in his great longing to attain that most exalted, that sanctified and resplendent station…. The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 156
No matter the religion, scriptures do not contain any detailed depictions of the afterlife, we are just left hanging for the most part. I do not like that, but there is not much I can do about it but read books about it.
I cannot understand how anyone can be attached to this earthly life, but I am sure many/,most people have had a happier life than I have because the world would not function very well if everyone had a life like mine.
This life has never been a picnic for me, but I *believe* the spiritual worlds will be a lot better. That does not mean I am not frightened of dying, I am scared to death, because I do not like the unknown. But I do have faith in Baha'u'llah so I believe what He wrote. I have no idea what it actually means except very generally, but I just accept that I am not supposed to know, for the reason noted in the passage above.
“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes.You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 329
RE:
You, like most religious, like to believe that your god is eternal. However, you really cannot comprehend eternity. It's not just a gazillion times what you can experience here on earth. There are only about 10 ^ 80 atoms in the universe. 10 ^ ∞ is still less than eternity.
ecco
Veteran Member
So, if Jesus is part of the godhead and Balulah was just a mortal, shouldn't we give more credence to Jesus than the Balulah?
Why would god send a godhead to the earth 2000 years ago and just settle for a mortal 200 years ago?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Life is a different subject. Do we mourn when a movie ends? Or a book is finished? Not to my knowledge, but we do mourn when someone we love dies.
Now that you mention it, I had several aunts. One I liked very much, the other I didn't. Sad to say, I don't mourn the one I didn't like, but I believe her future life is up to God, not me. And I will have to learn to like her, she will also have to change, imo. I also had an aunt I long to see again.
I wouldn't say that atheists turn into serial killers. There's much more to acting properly than that.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
All we can know about eternity is that it is never-ending.
How is that related to what I said above in red?
Are you saying that eternity would have to be repetitive because it is never-ending?
To me, it seems like the opposite would be true, because there would always be *new things* to discover since there would be no time limits. In this world, we always have to think about time. I hate it. How much time am I going to have to answer all these posts today and still do all the other things I have to do? People look forward to retirement because they will have more time, and then they fill up all their time with meaningless activities. I look forward to retirement only so I can advance my spiritual development and hopefully help other people. I'd like to have more time to be with my cats too but that is the only other thing I care about. I have no trips planned.
To each his or her own. We all have to decide what is important to us and since time is limited we have to allocate it accordingly. I go by what Baha'u'llah wrote in making my decision:
“Gird up the loins of thine endeavor, that haply thou mayest guide thy neighbor to the law of God, the Most Merciful. Such an act, verily, excelleth all other acts in the sight of God, the All-Possessing, the Most High. Such must be thy steadfastness in the Cause of God, that no earthly thing whatsoever will have the power to deter thee from thy duty. Though the powers of earth be leagued against thee, though all men dispute with thee, thou must remain unshaken.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 339
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Adrian said: Concepts in regards the Sonship and Divinity of Christ are important theological narratives to enable us to understand who Christ was and His Mission. They are not necessarily straight forward.
Jesus and Baha'u'llah were both Manifestations of God and they were equal in their nature because both of them had two stations. Manifestations of God are mortal but they are more than mortal.
Manifestations of God, possess two stations: one is the physical station pertaining to the world of matter, and the others is the spiritual station, born of the substance of God. In other words, one station is that of a human being, and one, of the Divine Reality. It is because they possess both a human and a divine station that they can act as *mediators* between God and man.
Every Manifestation of God is a mirror of God, reflecting God’s Self, God’s Beauty, God’s Might and Glory. All other human beings are to be regarded as mirrors capable of reflecting the glory of these Manifestations Who are themselves the Primary Mirrors of the Divine Being,
The Manifestations of God are another order of creation above an ordinary man. They possess a universal divine mind that is different than ours and that is why God only speaks to them directly and through Them God communicates to humanity.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You know what I find interesting, although I do not share the same fascination as astronomers do with stars, planets, and the like. They can spend almost their entire lives gazing into the heavens yet don't seem to be bored. There are so many other things to do, but what I am saying is that the few years they put in virtually constantly looking into the heavens, discovering new things is hardly what they (not me) would call boring. So I truly doubt one would be bored living forever.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Why?
Aha. That's very interesting.
So, if you believe in an eternal afterlife in some paradise without suffering, where you'll see all your loved ones again... why would you mourn anybody at all?
See, the very act of mourning, to me is also evidence that deep down, you guys don't actually believe in an afterlife.
If you would TRUELLY believe in an afterlife, when a loved one dies it would be more like that loved one moving to the other side of the world without access to the internet of phones for a couple of years. Sure, it would make you sad and you'll miss them. But you wouldn't be mourning.
So why would you be sad when a loved one goes to a place of eternal hapiness, where you'll be eventually even joining them?
Something doesn't quite add up there.
And believing in a god, isn't part of it
I wonder if you’re confusing the trinity with Divinity? The Divinity aspect is when God speaks through either Jesus or Bahá’u’lláh. Baha’is believe God spoke through both. The Revelation through Bahá’u’lláh has precedence as its for this modern era. The Christian era has passed.
Its hard to draw conclusions from the data.
One of the characteristics of this age is religion has lost its power to meaningfully transform lives and communities. So in the West we are no longer living in a Christian era but post-Christian. The Christian religion in many ways is out of sync with the needs of today.
Bahá’u’lláh summarised the scenario when He used the analogy of a Divine Physician:
The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.
Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Page 213
Christianity carries teachings and dogmas that are no longer suited to this era in history and in fact becomes a barrier to truth. Often atheists are more insightful and moral than those claiming to be Christian.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
That is very much like a doctor trying to keep the patient under his control all the time and fleece him, not giving the correct medicine which can remove the disease once for all. What kind of doctor will that be?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
One reason is because death is not something most of us look forward to in the "natural" sense. That's the way we are. Animals fear being caught and killed, that is their natural response, they don't fear death in the same way we do. They fear being killed because that is their innate response, just as a bug tries to get away from being caught, that is usually called self-preservation or instinct.
Animals don't have banks where they stockpile for the future. They don't read or write about spiritual experiences. They don't have different religions. They don't talk about what happens or doesn't happen in the future. They live and then they die.
We (humans) think about it from the moment we realize death is. As I very young child, I really didn't know death existed. I remember when I finally realized it, I was about 5 or 6 years old. And so you have to ask yourself why is it we, generally speaking that is, go to doctors? But really, when we're alive, we know we're alive. Unless of course we're brain dead.
Now I could go into more detail about the differences between life and death. I do not believe a loved one suffers or is happy when they're dead. I believe in what the Bible teaches -- a resurrection. So when a person dies, he thinks or feels nothing. If read the account of Jesus, Lazarus, Martha and Mary in the Bible (John chapter 11), you will see in part what Jesus taught.