Theory in Crisis

[Neuropteron]

“Darwin had nothing to support his theory… It is still a highly speculative hypothesis entirely without factual support and very far from that self evident axiom some would have us believe...One might have expected that a theory of such cardinal importance would have more than metaphysics and myth to offer”.
M.Denton (Molecular Biologist)1986 Theory in crisis p69

“...evolution has many dissidents, some with advanced scientific degrees, who deny that evolution is a fact and who insist that an intelligent Creator caused all living things to come into being in furtherance of a purpose.
Phillip E. Johnson Darwin on Trial p1

“Biologist indulge in unsubstantiated fantasies in denying what is obvious. Simple calculations wipe the idea of life originating spontaneously entirely out of court”.
C.Wickromasighe Evolution From Space 1983

“The results of the cumulative efforts of [biologist] to investigate life at the molecular level is a loud, clear , piercing cry of “Design!” The result is so unambiguous and so significant that it must be ranked as one of the greatest achievements in the history of science”. Darwin’s Black Box Michael J. Behe p232


Above are a few comments from scientist regarding the theory of evolution.
Often we hear of Evolutionist stating that evolution is not a theory but a scientific fact.

What do you think ?
Is evolution a proven fact, a theory or a construct to undermine belief in a creator ?

Please keep in mind that ubiquitous statements such as “everybody know it’s a fact” or “you have to be stupid not to believe in it...” are not convincing proof of evolution.

 

[LuisDantas]

We have quite a few threads on this matter already. The short of it is that there is a lot of misinformation around, and that is the only reason why people even ask whether evolution is in doubt.

 

[sun rise]

Evolution is a fact.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Oh, a comedy thread. It has been a while since we had one of those.

 

[Ouroboros]

I took some college classes in anthropology. I think it's self evident it's true.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

“Darwin had nothing to support his theory… It is still a highly speculative hypothesis entirely without factual support
What do you think ?
Is evolution a proven fact, a theory or a construct to undermine belief in a creator ?

Please keep in mind that ubiquitous statements such as “everybody know it’s a fact” or “you have to be stupid not to believe in it...” are not convincing proof of evolution.

Yes, Darwin DID have evidence to support his theory, and No it is not a highly speculative hypothesis without factual support. Those statements are utterly ridiculous and need to be countered.

Darwin's ideas were, of course, much more speculative than they are today, yet they were based on his observed evidence. They weren't made up out of whole cloth. He was a theist at the time, so they weren't designed to support an atheist world view or anything like that. He simply voyaged and observed, and drew conclusions from what he saw, and made further hypotheses that future generations could test.

It is amazingly remarkable just how accurate he was. In the years since Darwin, not only has the plethora of fossil evidence backed up his idea, but we now have the science of Genetics, which thoroughly supports Evolution.

Let us divide this into two.

There is the process of evolution, which is defined as a change in the frequency of gene variants, alleles, in a population over generations. IOW living beings gradually change over time because their genes gradually change. This is not theoretical, but factual. There is absolutely overwhelming evidence for this, so much so that it is utterly beyond question.

Then there is the THEORY of Evolution, which is the HOW of evolution, or What is the Driving Force Behind Evolution. Is it natural selection? God? Random mutations? Isolated populations? Is it slow gradual change or is it punctuated? This goes beyond hypothesis. In science a theory is much much more than a philosophical theory. In science a theory is supported by tons of evidence, so that it is practically fact, but not quite. There could come along new evidence that might shed new light on it, such as adding a new cause to the already existing list of causes. In the modern theory of evolution (which goes way beyond Darwinism) natural selection may remain the single greatest factor, but also included are random mutation, isolated populations, and punctuated equilibrium.

Anyone who says different simply doesn't know what they are talking about. They have blinders on, almost always because they are giving more scientific authority to a literal reading of a religious text than to the actual empirical evidence of science.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I took some college classes in anthropology. I think it's self evident it's true.

Yeap. I used to believe in a literal Genesis 1 creation until I took an Anthropology 101 course. Following the fossils of the primates up through the hominids, especially Homo Habilis, thoroughly thrashed that belief. No objective person can reject evolution when faced with the hard, cold facts.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

We have quite a few threads on this matter already. The short of it is that there is a lot of misinformation around, and that is the only reason why people even ask whether evolution is in doubt.

Misinformation is “The only reason”? Really?

What about the “Explanatory Deficits of the Modern Synthesis”?

For example...Where is the evidence that reveals the origin of the bacterial flagellum? How would mindless, unguided mechanisms build such machines?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Misinformation is “The only reason”? Really?

What about the “Explanatory Deficits of the Modern Synthesis”?

For example...Where is the evidence that reveals the origin of the bacterial flagellum? How would mindless, unguided mechanisms build such machines?

You do realize that that problem was solved over ten years ago, don't you? You should you have raised that claim before. It has now joined the rank of PRATT's.

Please keep us updated. When you find a serious problem we would like to be the first to know.

 

[Jose Fly]

“Darwin had nothing to support his theory… It is still a highly speculative hypothesis entirely without factual support and very far from that self evident axiom some would have us believe...One might have expected that a theory of such cardinal importance would have more than metaphysics and myth to offer”.
M.Denton (Molecular Biologist)1986 Theory in crisis p69

“...evolution has many dissidents, some with advanced scientific degrees, who deny that evolution is a fact and who insist that an intelligent Creator caused all living things to come into being in furtherance of a purpose.
Phillip E. Johnson Darwin on Trial p1

“Biologist indulge in unsubstantiated fantasies in denying what is obvious. Simple calculations wipe the idea of life originating spontaneously entirely out of court”.
C.Wickromasighe Evolution From Space 1983

“The results of the cumulative efforts of [biologist] to investigate life at the molecular level is a loud, clear , piercing cry of “Design!” The result is so unambiguous and so significant that it must be ranked as one of the greatest achievements in the history of science”. Darwin’s Black Box Michael J. Behe p232


Above are a few comments from scientist regarding the theory of evolution.
Often we hear of Evolutionist stating that evolution is not a theory but a scientific fact.

What do you think ?
Is evolution a proven fact, a theory or a construct to undermine belief in a creator ?

Please keep in mind that ubiquitous statements such as “everybody know it’s a fact” or “you have to be stupid not to believe in it...” are not convincing proof of evolution.

Two things. First, quotes don't really mean anything in science. Data is what matters

Second, I suggest if you really are interested in evolutionary biology you not rely on creationists (and especially creationist lawyers such as Johnson) for your info. After all, you wouldn't refer a person interested in geography to flat-earthers, would you?

 

[Twilight Hue]

“Darwin had nothing to support his theory… It is still a highly speculative hypothesis entirely without factual support and very far from that self evident axiom some would have us believe...One might have expected that a theory of such cardinal importance would have more than metaphysics and myth to offer”.
M.Denton (Molecular Biologist)1986 Theory in crisis p69

“...evolution has many dissidents, some with advanced scientific degrees, who deny that evolution is a fact and who insist that an intelligent Creator caused all living things to come into being in furtherance of a purpose.
Phillip E. Johnson Darwin on Trial p1

“Biologist indulge in unsubstantiated fantasies in denying what is obvious. Simple calculations wipe the idea of life originating spontaneously entirely out of court”.
C.Wickromasighe Evolution From Space 1983

“The results of the cumulative efforts of [biologist] to investigate life at the molecular level is a loud, clear , piercing cry of “Design!” The result is so unambiguous and so significant that it must be ranked as one of the greatest achievements in the history of science”. Darwin’s Black Box Michael J. Behe p232


Above are a few comments from scientist regarding the theory of evolution.
Often we hear of Evolutionist stating that evolution is not a theory but a scientific fact.

What do you think ?
Is evolution a proven fact, a theory or a construct to undermine belief in a creator ?

Please keep in mind that ubiquitous statements such as “everybody know it’s a fact” or “you have to be stupid not to believe in it...” are not convincing proof of evolution.

Maybe you should stop listening to the wack-jobs and look for something a bit more educational and reliable. Like your local University that has courses in evolutionary science.

 

[Ouroboros]

Misinformation is “The only reason”? Really?

What about the “Explanatory Deficits of the Modern Synthesis”?

For example...Where is the evidence that reveals the origin of the bacterial flagellum? How would mindless, unguided mechanisms build such machines?

If I remember right it came through e coli. I'll check tomorrow.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What do you think ?
Is evolution a proven fact, a theory or a construct to undermine belief in a creator ?

Please keep in mind that ubiquitous statements such as “everybody know it’s a fact” or “you have to be stupid not to believe in it...” are not convincing proof of evolution.

Personally I see the evolution of man is as a distinct species, no matter how it happens. I see it is part of a process given by an intelligent mind.

My sources are Faith based and as such, I see they will be confirmed by science.

Regards Tony

 

[Valjean]

“Darwin had nothing to support his theory… It is still a highly speculative hypothesis entirely without factual support and very far from that self evident axiom some would have us believe...One might have expected that a theory of such cardinal importance would have more than metaphysics and myth to offer”.
M.Denton (Molecular Biologist)1986 Theory in crisis p69

“...evolution has many dissidents, some with advanced scientific degrees, who deny that evolution is a fact and who insist that an intelligent Creator caused all living things to come into being in furtherance of a purpose.
Phillip E. Johnson Darwin on Trial p1

“Biologist indulge in unsubstantiated fantasies in denying what is obvious. Simple calculations wipe the idea of life originating spontaneously entirely out of court”.
C.Wickromasighe Evolution From Space 1983

“The results of the cumulative efforts of [biologist] to investigate life at the molecular level is a loud, clear , piercing cry of “Design!” The result is so unambiguous and so significant that it must be ranked as one of the greatest achievements in the history of science”. Darwin’s Black Box Michael J. Behe p232

These quotations are all demonstrably false, and false not just in detail or interpretation.They are propaganda.

Questions, Neuropteron? Ask.

Above are a few comments from scientist regarding the theory of evolution.
Often we hear of Evolutionist stating that evolution is not a theory but a scientific fact.

I question their credentials, and motivation.

Theory? Seriously?
You don't know what a scientific theory is. In science "theory" denotes the highest level of confidence. It is a theory that the Earth revolves around the sun, that it's round, that germs cause disease....

What do you think ?
Is evolution a proven fact, a theory or a construct to undermine belief in a creator ?

Evolution is both a fact and a theory, and has nothing to do with any creator. Evolution as fact and theory - Wikipedia

Please keep in mind that ubiquitous statements such as “everybody know it’s a fact” or “you have to be stupid not to believe in it...” are not convincing proof of evolution.

No-one has "proof" of anything in science. Science doesn't prove things, you're thinking of mathematics.

There is overwhelming evidence from multiple disciplines supporting the fact that organisms change over time. There is no controversy among scientists, and support continues to accumulate.

 

[Valjean]

Misinformation is “The only reason”? Really?

What about the “Explanatory Deficits of the Modern Synthesis”?

For example...Where is the evidence that reveals the origin of the bacterial flagellum? How would mindless, unguided mechanisms build such machines?

The same way mindless evolution produces anything.
The basic mechanisms of evolution are well established. The only controversy lies in the details.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

“Darwin had nothing to support his theory… It is still a highly speculative hypothesis entirely without factual support and very far from that self evident axiom some would have us believe...One might have expected that a theory of such cardinal importance would have more than metaphysics and myth to offer”.
M.Denton (Molecular Biologist)1986 Theory in crisis p69

“...evolution has many dissidents, some with advanced scientific degrees, who deny that evolution is a fact and who insist that an intelligent Creator caused all living things to come into being in furtherance of a purpose.
Phillip E. Johnson Darwin on Trial p1

“Biologist indulge in unsubstantiated fantasies in denying what is obvious. Simple calculations wipe the idea of life originating spontaneously entirely out of court”.
C.Wickromasighe Evolution From Space 1983

“The results of the cumulative efforts of [biologist] to investigate life at the molecular level is a loud, clear , piercing cry of “Design!” The result is so unambiguous and so significant that it must be ranked as one of the greatest achievements in the history of science”. Darwin’s Black Box Michael J. Behe p232


Above are a few comments from scientist regarding the theory of evolution.
Often we hear of Evolutionist stating that evolution is not a theory but a scientific fact.

It is both. Evolution is an observed fact, and the theory of evolution explains it.

What do you think ?

I think quoting a few paragraphs from a handful of scientist is in no way indicative of widespread or justified rejection of evolutionary theory in the face of millions of scientists who accept the evidence.

Is evolution a proven fact, a theory or a construct to undermine belief in a creator ?

Yes and no. Evolution is a demonstrable fact, and it in no way exists to undermine belief in a creator. People should have no issue reonciling belief in a God with evolution, provided that their view of God is more than a childish view akin to equating God to a magician who pulls life out of hat.

 

[LuisDantas]

Misinformation is “The only reason”? Really?

Yes, exactly.

What about the “Explanatory Deficits of the Modern Synthesis”?

For example...Where is the evidence that reveals the origin of the bacterial flagellum? How would mindless, unguided mechanisms build such machines?

Google it, or ask a biologist.

 

[Brickjectivity]

a construct to undermine belief in a creator ?

hmmm Fair for a believer to ask this.

Creators make things, invent things, form things; but they always use a development method. They start with something and form it into something else gradually by iterations. All of our creators and inventors start with some invention and improve it or fork from it to something new. Dancers are the same way. Look at the 'Moon walk' of Michael Jackson. He modifies other things to make his invention. Flight controls are based upon previous things. The ruby laser begins with something else. The printing press begins with something else. A sculptor starts with another sculpture or a head and develops ideas based on that. We have no examples of anything that is not developed over time.

What if Evolution isn't sent to undermine belief in a creator but is instead sent to embarrass those who profit financially from the sheep? What if it were a tool withheld until now to get rid of hired workers and replace them with a good shepherd? Would that be so far fetched? Its logically as good as the quoted statement.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Misinformation is “The only reason”? Really?

What about the “Explanatory Deficits of the Modern Synthesis”?

For example...Where is the evidence that reveals the origin of the bacterial flagellum? How would mindless, unguided mechanisms build such machines?

Evolution myths: The bacterial flagellum is irreducibly complex

Science doesn't have all the answers. But to fill the gaps with 'God' is not a particularly convincing argument, imho.

 

[Darkforbid]

Michael Denton describes himself as an evolutionist and he has rejected biblical creationism.

In the book you've quoted from,, case closed