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Fun Way To Fool Yourself -- Condemn Someone for Doing What You're Doing

Cooky

Veteran Member
Explain this "survival instinct". I don't follow what you mean.

Sure, just imagine all the elements of the physical universe -gravity, mass, electromagnetism, radiation, all the things that are not alive. None of these things reproduce and become animated beings capable of moving around and working towards their survival... These things, like rocks, just sit there and do nothing except be thrust around by other elements or forces they come into contact with.

...We, on the other hand are achievers, who set goals and work towards them. This goal-setting, is exclusive only to life. And these goals are what we come to these forums for, in the hope's of making accomplishments.

These accomplishments are the pillar of life and stem from our inclination to live on.

...Thus, our debates are an extension of *what life is* -one of many branches in the survival of life, which all life forms deal in to various degrees, but all do none the less.
 
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Cooky

Veteran Member
A little background information of why I talk like this, is that I dislike the way many reductionists tend to 'look back' to the beginnings of life, and try to theorize the meanings of life from earlier examples.

...My method is to look at the human being, the diamonds of life, as I see it, and actually learn about the past from the present -the result of millions of years of refining... This is the complete opposite method of what the sciences do.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
So why should we condemn people for doing it? It is one thing to point out to folks that they are doing it -- but why try to condemn them for it?

Ultimately, I think you're right. We can't condemn people for being people.
 

Phaedrus

Active Member
There is a world of difference between having a belief and then attempting to enforce those beliefs on others. People can think whatever they want of me, because it in no way makes me less of a person except through their limited perspective. It is when they infiltrate secular law with their sociologically damaging religious or political ideologies that I will stand up against their inability to reason.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
There is a world of difference between having a belief and then attempting to enforce those beliefs on others. People can think whatever they want of me, because it in no way makes me less of a person except through their limited perspective. It is when they infiltrate secular law with their sociologically damaging religious or political ideologies that I will stand up against their inability to reason.

What if the ideologies going into effect under secular laws, are ideologies you DO hold though (what ideas you embrace I'm not sure)? Will you still be against enforcing them if others deem them sociologically damaging?

...Because not everyone agrees on what is or is not sociologically damaging.
 

Scott C.

Just one guy
Have you noticed how much fun it is to fool yourself by attacking and condemning someone else for "feeling smug and superior" in such a manner that it makes you feel smug and superior to them?

I prefer the humble brag to flagrant statements of superiority.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Have you noticed how much fun it is to fool yourself by attacking and condemning someone else for "feeling smug and superior" in such a manner that it makes you feel smug and superior to them?

Like,"Those religious folks think their religion makes them better than us atheists, but us atheists are really better than those religious folks because we don't go around feeling superior like they do".

Or, "Those atheist folks think their atheism makes them better than us religious folks, but us religious folks are really better than those atheist folks because we don't go around feeling superior like they do".

Ever notice how easy it is to fool yourself?

Ever notice how much fun it is?

I thinking ranking oneself as superior or inferior in comparison to other people pretty much goes with the territory of being human. It's almost impossible to escape doing it. So why should we condemn people for doing it? It is one thing to point out to folks that they are doing it -- but why try to condemn them for it? Does condemning people for feeling superior or inferior to you make any sense to you? Do you think condemning people is gong to change human nature? If so, why? If not, why not?

That is an insight. Will multiple robots, all instantiated from one code, try to act smarter than each other?
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Have you noticed how much fun it is to fool yourself by attacking and condemning someone else for "feeling smug and superior" in such a manner that it makes you feel smug and superior to them?

Like,"Those religious folks think their religion makes them better than us atheists, but us atheists are really better than those religious folks because we don't go around feeling superior like they do".

Or, "Those atheist folks think their atheism makes them better than us religious folks, but us religious folks are really better than those atheist folks because we don't go around feeling superior like they do".

Ever notice how easy it is to fool yourself?

Ever notice how much fun it is?

I thinking ranking oneself as superior or inferior in comparison to other people pretty much goes with the territory of being human. It's almost impossible to escape doing it. So why should we condemn people for doing it? It is one thing to point out to folks that they are doing it -- but why try to condemn them for it? Does condemning people for feeling superior or inferior to you make any sense to you? Do you think condemning people is gong to change human nature? If so, why? If not, why not?

You're acting like there's something wrong with this.

This is human behavior.

The universe is set up in such a way that it is religiously neutral with a slight bias to theism (that is, assuming we don't believe in biocentrism where we humans created everything with our minds, and assuming we don't assert a universe that is eternal, denying these two things makes you a dumbass because you will them have to prove how an original creation happened without an original creator), and a tendency to amplify bias. Honestly, if you put forth an argument that doesn't work you need to be mocked publicly in order so you'll come up with a better one. If not for censorship, learning would take place, and atheists would become better atheists. The natural state of the world is to reduce faulty assumptions and strengthen the core beliefs. That is, Christians through their encounter with the world become stronger Christians, while atheists become more convinced atheists.

You may see it as being smug but it's like this. Suppose you have a child who is never told no. Do they learn and grow and become responsible adults? No, they usually become whiny psychopaths and poor human beings. In the same way, ppl who always get easy A in debate, and then get a pass because mods confuse the gentle correction of saying "no you're ****ing wrong" for smugness and arrogance, then arguments continue to be of poor quality.

So, creation without a creator doesn't work (especially since you're borrowing theistic ideas from Lemaitre in the form of Big Bang), nor does asserting the universe is random chance (for the same reason typing random gibberish with monkeys will NEVER make Shakespeare level poetry but rather gmhfkhssdurscuydmhdtjrxkcykdtkwcgcycoiyciycvoyro), neither does trying to categorically defy everything theism says regardless of logic. If you want to actually have a chance, eternal universe works, as does a cyclic universe, as does the idea space aliens did it, or that humans imagined reality. All of these things are possible to at least sorta defend. But the traditional method of stating atheism is like sawing legs from a table and expecting it to stand.

Likewise, asserting that God is perfect as well as omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, and always good is likely to run into the problem of evil. Likewise the assertion that Jesus is the only way into Heaven will have to explain the ppl before Jesus, and those those in remote places.

It's like one of Jesus's own parables, of a man who built a tower but didn't have materials, and was mocked for it. If you have an argument but no way to follow through, to make it work, you get mocked.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
you noticed how much fun it is to fool yourself by attacking and condemning someone else for "feeling smug and superior" in such a manner that it makes you feel smug and superior to them?
Yes

Like,"Those religious folks think their religion makes them better than us atheists, but us atheists are really better than those religious folks because we don't go around feeling superior like they do".
Good example

Or, "Those atheist folks think their atheism makes them better than us religious folks, but us religious folks are really better than those atheist folks because we don't go around feeling superior like they do".
Good example

Ever notice how easy it is to fool yourself?
Yes

Ever notice how much fun it is?
When I allow ego to indulge itself .... yes

I thinking ranking oneself as superior or inferior in comparison to other people pretty much goes with the territory of being human
Forgetting being human(e) I would call it

It's almost impossible to escape doing
Yes.

So why should we condemn people for doing it?
Should we?
Okay to do it once
Realize how silly you acted
Do it again proves to others a donkey outsmarts you

It is one thing to point out to folks that they are doing it -- but why try to condemn them for it?
1) Blind, without using common sense, follow scripture verses
2) Doing so, because of "lack of Love"
3) As a consequence of ignorance
 
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ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Have you noticed how much fun it is to fool yourself by attacking and condemning someone else for "feeling smug and superior" in such a manner that it makes you feel smug and superior to them?

Like,"Those religious folks think their religion makes them better than us atheists, but us atheists are really better than those religious folks because we don't go around feeling superior like they do".

Or, "Those atheist folks think their atheism makes them better than us religious folks, but us religious folks are really better than those atheist folks because we don't go around feeling superior like they do".

Ever notice how easy it is to fool yourself?

Ever notice how much fun it is?

I thinking ranking oneself as superior or inferior in comparison to other people pretty much goes with the territory of being human. It's almost impossible to escape doing it. So why should we condemn people for doing it? It is one thing to point out to folks that they are doing it -- but why try to condemn them for it? Does condemning people for feeling superior or inferior to you make any sense to you? Do you think condemning people is gong to change human nature? If so, why? If not, why not?


Many years ago when i was christian i was taught that i should be superior to those who dont follow the christian bible... Even those who interpret it differently. Both testaments are jam packed with verses about the superiority of christianity.

When i took steps (big ones) to rid myself of the __________ (fill blank as required) of the christian church i realised how superior i was in doing so.

Lets face it, christian or atheist, one always feels superior to those on the other side.

Conclusion... I am superior no matter which side i am on :innocent:
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Have you noticed how much fun it is to fool yourself by attacking and condemning someone else for "feeling smug and superior" in such a manner that it makes you feel smug and superior to them?

Like,"Those religious folks think their religion makes them better than us atheists, but us atheists are really better than those religious folks because we don't go around feeling superior like they do".

Or, "Those atheist folks think their atheism makes them better than us religious folks, but us religious folks are really better than those atheist folks because we don't go around feeling superior like they do".

Ever notice how easy it is to fool yourself?

Ever notice how much fun it is?

I thinking ranking oneself as superior or inferior in comparison to other people pretty much goes with the territory of being human. It's almost impossible to escape doing it. So why should we condemn people for doing it? It is one thing to point out to folks that they are doing it -- but why try to condemn them for it? Does condemning people for feeling superior or inferior to you make any sense to you? Do you think condemning people is gong to change human nature? If so, why? If not, why not?


To quote Dr Sheldon Cooper:

"It's not arrogance if you are correct!"


;-)


Joking aside, I hope I never gave the impression that I consider myself superior to other people, just because I think I'm right and they aren't.

I might consider my beliefs and/or knowledge on a specific topic superior as opposed to othe viewpoints on that same issue. But that's quite different from thinking I, as a person, are superior to them overall.

I also don't consider it a problem either, as long as it can be justified.

If you believe that 2+2 equals 9 and I believe it equals 4, I think it's quite clear that one is supperior to the other. I also think I don't have to explicitly mention which is which.
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
It is one thing to point out to folks that they are doing it -- but why try to condemn them for it? Does condemning people for feeling superior or inferior to you make any sense to you? Do you think condemning people is gong to change human nature? If so, why? If not, why not?

Humans are a species that often suffers a widespread condition of misaligned egos. The Ego is not always perceived correctly, it seems to be a problem of perception. If one cannot see the color blue, there is no means in the universe for me to explain the color. Condemnation would mean nothing.
 
Pretty much everyone who debates in these forums are exercising their survival instincts via social topics. But the instinct itself is so strong and is such a major pillar of life, that we often don't even notice it's there ourselves. Our inability to identify it, also serves the purpose of us actually 'believing' in our own arguments.

Self-deception indeed has many evolutionary benefits

It's much easier to lie when we are being completely honest, and it's much easier to hypocritically malign others when we know are being entirely fair minded.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Have you noticed how much fun it is to fool yourself by attacking and condemning someone else for "feeling smug and superior" in such a manner that it makes you feel smug and superior to them?

Like,"Those religious folks think their religion makes them better than us atheists, but us atheists are really better than those religious folks because we don't go around feeling superior like they do".

Or, "Those atheist folks think their atheism makes them better than us religious folks, but us religious folks are really better than those atheist folks because we don't go around feeling superior like they do".

Ever notice how easy it is to fool yourself?

Ever notice how much fun it is?

I thinking ranking oneself as superior or inferior in comparison to other people pretty much goes with the territory of being human. It's almost impossible to escape doing it. So why should we condemn people for doing it? It is one thing to point out to folks that they are doing it -- but why try to condemn them for it? Does condemning people for feeling superior or inferior to you make any sense to you? Do you think condemning people is gong to change human nature? If so, why? If not, why not?

There are times to not respond to mockery, other times a response is required/suggested.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Have you noticed how much fun it is to fool yourself by attacking and condemning someone else for "feeling smug and superior" in such a manner that it makes you feel smug and superior to them?

Like,"Those religious folks think their religion makes them better than us atheists, but us atheists are really better than those religious folks because we don't go around feeling superior like they do".

Or, "Those atheist folks think their atheism makes them better than us religious folks, but us religious folks are really better than those atheist folks because we don't go around feeling superior like they do".

Ever notice how easy it is to fool yourself?

Ever notice how much fun it is?

I thinking ranking oneself as superior or inferior in comparison to other people pretty much goes with the territory of being human. It's almost impossible to escape doing it. So why should we condemn people for doing it? It is one thing to point out to folks that they are doing it -- but why try to condemn them for it? Does condemning people for feeling superior or inferior to you make any sense to you? Do you think condemning people is gong to change human nature? If so, why? If not, why not?

Although Freudian psychology has seemingly been discredited by modern research into the subject?

I think his idea of Ego was based on valid observation, in that most humans (if not all) have a kind of inner self, which Freud labeled 'ego' that does appear to drive us forward.

I have observed this same 'drive' also exists in dogs and cats, too. The drive to get ahead, or what @"Landon Caeli" described as survival instinct.

What ever it's called? I think all life forms seem to posses this drive in one or more forms, even simple single-celled creatures are driven to ingest nutrients, and reproduce.

The more complicated the brain? The more complicated this 'ego' can become, it would appear.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
So, how exactly would one go about the business of trying to get people to stop claiming themselves superior to oneself, without claiming that the non-superior position/mode is superior? Isn't this all just a bit paradoxical? I think I'll just continue condemning people. Seems easier than thinking about it.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I remember Pastors ranting about various kinds of sin, only to be caught in the same sin...
I once had a tenant who was a Unity Church minister.
He railed against Paul Reubens (aka Pee Wee Herman)
for wanking in a pornor theater.
Turned out later that he was a closeted homo.
I never had a chance to discuss the potential conflict there.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
I once had a tenant who was a Unity Church minister.
He railed against Paul Reubens (aka Pee Wee Herman)
for wanking in a pornor theater.
Turned out later that he was a closeted homo.
I never had a chance to discuss the potential conflict there.

My sister-in-law married into a family where her new FIL (Stanley) was a pastor... Stanley's wife was handicapped and so he had a girlfriend on the side that he would vacation with and spend most of his time with while his wife stayed home (she eventually passed away).

Everyone knew about it and nobody talked about it... Awkward. But the oddest part was how Stanley would always condemn Catholics.
 
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