Tumah
Veteran Member
Judging from the bit I've seen of his work "scholar" is being quite generous.
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Why did the Jews reject their Messiah when he DID come?
- Thread starter Jonathan Bailey
- Start date
rosends
Well-Known Member
So you can't answer the point I made and now want to invoke an entire book. Useless. If you can't support your own claim then this will be fruitless. I'll just refer you to Tovia Singer's website in the future so you can read the material of a top scholar.
Spartan
Well-Known Member
There's not enough bandwidth. And besides, it's a waste of time with you. You just kick it all to the curb automatically.
Spartan
Well-Known Member
Then you haven't seen enough of it. Keep plugging.
So we have an archangel come down from Heaven with the authority to forgive sin, and you know more about what qualifies than God...
Have you ever thought you could actually have misunderstood the text, rather than assume God is wrong?
In my opinion.
Spartan
Well-Known Member
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
I think the ongoing argument is interesting, but as an outsider it's kind of distressing in a way to see all of you put so much energy into this. All of you abrahamists reject nature as your god, and nature will probably crush the human race in the next few hundred years. Nature does talk to us, and all of the abrahamists place nature on the bottom tier of reality
rosends
Well-Known Member
I have yet to see an archangel. Now, sure, I have read posts from someone delusionally calling himself an archangel, but little does he know that he is chatting with Batman!So we have an archangel come down from Heaven with the authority to forgive sin, and you know more about what qualifies than God...
Have you ever thought you could actually have misunderstood the text, rather than assume God is wrong?
In my opinion.
rosends
Well-Known Member
I've seen Singer and a variety of elementary school students refute Brown and others. So I'll pass. No doubt whatever I posted from him you would just kick to the curb.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Thanks, but I'm worried about my IQ being lowered if I were to see any more of those things he calls "answers". I understand where he's coming from, I do. He's talking to Christians who are already maybe not that intelligent for having decided to believe in the NT despite it's terrible argumentation to begin with. So his arguments don't need to be that great and could afford to have a little smudging of facts. But as a Jew, I'd rather keep my mind sharp.
Tumah
Veteran Member
The thing is, you here right now are doing exactly the same thing Christians are doing in this thread and the same thing that distresses you.
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
Both of you deny what I'm talking about. I'm in the thread to show you that this isn't some binary game here, and that all of it might actually be wrong. And you're all free to be wrong.
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I think a much more respectful way to approach the subject would be to ask, "Why do the Jewish people reject Jesus as the Messiah?" Your statement is quite presumptuous.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Yeah, the Christians are here to show us that the Jews read their texts wrong and you're here to tell us that we believe in the wrong god.
Elohim are Divine Beings that surround the throne of God, i.e Archangels...
So in Isaiah 52:10 Yehoshua is an Elohim, coming down here in the form of David (Isaiah 52:13-14 paraphrases Psalms 89:19-21).
In Exodus 23:20-22 it explains that God would put his angel before us with the power to forgive sin, and with his title upon him...
The idea the 'Fake Jews' would reject the Curse of Moses was already prophesied, that 'they no longer accept the Rock of their Salvation (Deuteronomy 32:15-18), and their Eloh' (Divine Being), as they no longer recognize God (El).
I get the argumentativeness, and that it is no longer understood that after the Babylonian Exile, Judah dropped the concepts of the Divine Council (Psalms 82:1); yet due to this it has also not been understood that Yahavah Elohim is not El Elyon - one is the Creator Divine Being who made reality, and the other is the Source of our reality...
That same structure is in most ancient theology; why reject something your own texts stated?
As for me being a return of David Elohim (Zechariah 12:8), with the name Zion Elohim (Isaiah 52:7); it isn't optional if we reach the Messianic Age, and it will be only those who accept what the Source of reality has stated globally.
In my opinion.
Why? Probably because those prophecies were either no prophecies, or they did not come true, according to Biblical scholarship.
I believe the main reason the jews have been oppressed all those centuries, is not because they killed Jesus. That is obvious, Jesus death was planned, according to the plan.
They have been oppressed because despite being the closest to what happened 2000 years ago, and being experts in the OT, they did not buy into the myth. And that must have been extremely disturbing to anyone trying to promote the Christian theory. A sort of “Dorn im Auge”, as the Germans would say.
A typical example of this behavior is M. Luther. The father of Christian reformation. When the Jews were against the Catholic church they were fine. But when he realized he could not convince them with his mythology, then he wrote books that put him at the same moral level as SS Obergruppenführer R. Heydrich.
That sort of Christian behavior, quite common in the last 20 centuries, is exhaustively described in Karlheinz Deschner historical treatise “Kriminalgeschichte des Christentums (the criminal history of Christianity).
There should be English translations, by now.
Ciao
- viole
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
that Christians and Jews both have it wrong... and from my perspective you're all putting too much energy into this whole debate. We humans belong in a relationship with nature instead of invisible gods or gods to come. Just giving you some perspective
Tumah
Veteran Member
Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I'm just saying that what you're doing isn't too different than what the Christians here are doing.
Mind rule 8.
Tumah
Veteran Member
I believe that you are right but that this feeling began much earlier. Apparently in 2 Cor. 4:4, the author already had to explain why the people they believe should have been the most into it, weren't buying in.