When evangelists knock on your door...

[savagewind]

LSD had/has nothing to do with it.




They didn't make use of any magazines. But yeah, these particular JWs did carry weapons and did carry out a home invasion. You shouldn't make sweeping generalizations like that; it's harmful to society.

Personally, I think these two were just opportunists who took advantage of my partner at the time answering the door.




I'm certain that I'm not suffering from any delusions. And I don't need to see a doctor at the moment. It's kinda condescending of you to suggest that I do.

I think it should be obvious to anyone that they were posing as Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[Deeje]

Yes life saving information... The last time, several years ago, that i was harassed by JW, they offered me a magazine, and told me it contained life saving information. It looked precisely like an official NHS (national health service) magazine, same layout, same colour scheme. The items on the front cover implied NHS studies on heart health, smoking, pregnancy and alcohol. I accepted the magazine expecting some professional health advice articles. After they left i opened to see. The front cover printed, the rest of the flysheet blank,. Inside was a copy of the watchtower.

I decided there and then that if your faith has to resort to subterfuge, even fraud to palm of the watchtower then they do not deserve civility when they disturb my family life.

This is NOT something that we would do.....we have no desire to fool people or to use those means to trick you into taking literature. I'm sorry but I can't accept that any JW would deliberately set out to deceive anyone. We are counseled strongly against any such tactics. We follow the Bible's guidelines on our preaching activity. We strongly value honesty.

I told them not to call again every single time they called. I even had a notice pinned to the notice board in the local kingdom hall. Did it stop them??? What do you think?

This doesn't sound right either. If you request us NOT to call, we have to respect your right to refuse our visits. Anyone who didn't comply with your request should have been reprimanded. And, we don't pin things to the notice board at the Kingdom Hall. We alert the brother in charge of our witnessing activity and he will see to it that all who are on the "do not call list" have their wishes respected. Its his job to see that we don't cause undue animosity. You think we somehow enjoy being on the receiving end of a hostile householder? I assure you we would rather avoid people like you.

Ehhh?, who are Jehovah's witnesses to dictate at what time a family eats meals?

I never said we did...I said that if people eat at odd times, we do not deliberately call to disturb people when they are eating a meal.

If you can read then a sign saying "unsolicited callers will be reported to the police" should be fairly obvious that it applies to all uninvited callers, not all but Jehovah's witnesses.

Again, I do not understand how that happened. It is drummed into us that we are not to call on those who request us not to. If you had a sign saying "NO Jehovah's Witnesses" you might have done better.

We have people come to our door all the time, some wanting to set up solar panels on our rooves...others want to connect us to a better electricity supplier....or to ask for donations to various charities. I receive them all hospitably and even offer them refreshments on a hot day. What is with all the grumpy people who can't find it in themselves to be civil?

These complaints don't seem to me to be genuine because they are completely opposite to what we are instructed to do. No deception, no subterfuge.....what would be the point? You can't deceive people and have them trust you.....

 

[stvdv]

Most of the police in that town were JWs too. If we called them, the police could very well be the JWs who might've came round and finished us off.
We left town a couple of days after the home invasion. It was like something out of a horror movie.
And you shouldn't generalize about entire groups of people; it can be very harmful to society.
There's a few bad apples in every bunch; I guess we just got the raw end of the stick with these particular JWs.
One thing's for sure: they were sincere in their faith.

Now that you are safe, out of town, you can give the name of the town, and I would be surprised if @Deeje would not do a bit of research. It should be very easy to check out, because as you said "MOST of the police in that town are JWs". And it would be good get the bad apples out, because they should not continue to rape girls as you said.

1) I think it is quite a big claim to make "MOST of the police in that town were JWs", but of course that can be true. Easy to check though for Deeje
2) Better to be sure that those were JWs before making such a claim (you agree, as I saw you in another thread imply hearsay and conjecture not to be good)
3) How can you be "100% sure" they were sincere in their faith. Entering with a gun, threaten to rape your girlfriend does not convince me of that
4) No watch tower magazine with them. Was it just their word "we are Jehovah Witnesses". Their actions for sure were not JW actions.

I did check and found that many JWs hold this kind of position (police and law) in the world, so you might be right,
https://www.quora.com/Why-cant-Jehovahs-Witnesses-be-police-officers

I also checked how many Jehovah Witnesses on earth ... ca. 8.5 million
I also checked how many Police men on earth ... ca. 8.5 million (average of 100 officers per 100.000 people)

So the chance that you just were in a town where "MOST of the police being JWs" seems infinitesimal small, unless of course it was a 3 person police force. BUT as you mentioned "MOST of the police force" indicating a large amount, this seemed not to be the case either. Hence my thought "maybe these gun men were just pretending to be Jehovah Witnesses". I think you agree that this is a logical thought for someone reading your quite amazing and hard to believe story; esp. since you did not tell "why you are 100% sure they are JW".

Anyway, before making such a claim, I think it would be best to give the name of the town. First to be sure you do not make a false claim (you even mentioned above that one should not generalize about entire groups of people; it can be very harmful to society), but also very important to get them arrested. The first thing I saw @Deeje mention was "did you not report them"? I do know that JW do their best to keep their own group also as clean as possible.

 

[Deeje]

JWs don't have to be strict JWs.

You don't know much about JW's do you? If you did you would know that there is no such thing as a non-strict JW. If they are not conforming to the standard set in the Bible, they would never be allowed into our ranks in the first place. You can't join Jehovah's Witnesses.....you have to study the Bible and choose to become one. You have to qualify to do that. If you are a member of the police force or the military, you would have to forego that form of employment.

And if JWs can't be police officers, then why did I keep getting hammered with misdemeanors and told by the police that if I converted to JW like them they would leave me alone like every other "good" JW in that town?

That is just ridiculous! We do not operate like that......not even close. That is not the kind of conversion we would accept or promote in any way. Where is this town? I will report the fake JW's!

Like I said - you shouldn't paint with such a broad brush. Many JWs are very much into deadly weapons and violence like the ones I encountered.

That is just nonsense....sorry. They would not be allowed to remain if they did so....they would be out on their ear.

 

[ChristineM]

This is NOT something that we would do.....we have no desire to fool people or to use those means to trick you into taking literature. I'm sorry but I can't accept that any JW would deliberately set out to deceive anyone. We are counseled strongly against any such tactics. We follow the Bible's guidelines on

This i do not believe because is is entirely counter to my personal experience

This doesn't sound right either. If you request us NOT to call, we have to respect your right to refuse our visits. Anyone who didn't comply with your request should have been reprimanded. And, we don't pin things to the notice board at the Kingdom Hall. We alert the brother in charge of our witnessing activity and he will see to it that all who are on the "do not call list" have their wishes respected. Its his job to see that we don't cause undue animosity. You think we somehow enjoy being on the receiving end of a hostile householder? I assure you we would rather avoid people like you.

See above.
What is "undue" animosity?
In the entrance to the local kingdom hall where i used to live is a notice board, i dont care what you do at yours.

If you dont enjoy it then you know the answer.

I never said we did...I said that if people eat at odd times, we do not deliberately call to disturb people when they are eating a meal.

What do you consider odd times for a working family, a family with school children, a retired couple, a single mother? Do you mean odd as in 'they should not be eating when we call?'. Also not that family life does not always mean eating.

Again, I do not understand how that happened. It is drummed into us that we are not to call on those who request us not to. If you had a sign saying "NO Jehovah's Witnesses" you might have done better.

We have people come to our door all the time, some wanting to set up solar panels on our rooves...others want to connect us to a better electricity supplier....or to ask for donations to various charities. I receive them all hospitably and even offer them refreshments on a hot day. What is with all the grumpy people who can't find it in themselves to be civil?

These complaints don't seem to me to be genuine because they are completely opposite to what we are instructed to do. No deception, no subterfuge.....what would be the point? You can't deceive people and have them trust you.....

So no unsolicited callers signs need to list the occupation of each caller?

As i stated, disturbing family life is an intrusion. It may for example be the only few minutes in a period of time in which quality family time is possible. And of course, every householder has the right to their privacy. That does not mean they are grumpy, it means you make them grumpy

So you think i am lying? Way to go. FYI, i do not lie, i find lies to be the lowest form of insult.

Precisely, what is the point, personally i think the point is proselytising does away with decent human behaviour

 

[JJ50]

The ghastly JW cult is evil and people should steer well clear of it. If a god exists it might not want it in its gang.

 

[sooda]

If they said NO BLOOD then their wishes should have been respected. Your young OB/GYN's career was ruined by him/herself. It wasn't his/her call. You will never know if the patient may have survived with other life saving measures performed within her beliefs....you never gave them a chance.

Blood does not always save lives...in fact I will wager that more people die after a blood transfusion than ever die without one. Doctors are waking up to how dangerous these transfusions really are. Bloodless medicine is practiced in many hospitals around the world. Whole hospitals are dedicated to bloodless medicine. What does that tell you? They are not our hospitals.



We don't even meet for our local witnessing until 9am.....so I have no idea what that was all about. We do not call on people that early. You must be mistaken. If someone came to my door at 7am three days running I would send them off too.

Then she should have had her baby in the parking lot.

Yes they often call between 7 and 8 AM in groups of 5-6.

 

[LiveBetterLife]

The ghastly JW cult is evil and people should steer well clear of it. If a god exists it might not want it in its gang.

I'll say. One of the worst experiences of my life.

 

[savagewind]

@Deeje keeps on saying "we" but not all Jehovah's Witnesses live up to Deeje's strict standards for herself. I can't believe that she doesn't know that.

 

[LiveBetterLife]

@Deeje keeps on saying "we" but not all Jehovah's Witnesses live up to Deeje's strict standards for herself. I can't believe that she doesn't know that.

Precisely.

 

[SomeRandom]

What a load.....

Ahh come on. Where’s your Aussie larrikin spirit?
Never be afraid to laugh at yourself. Or you might miss the joke of the century. -Dame Edna Everage.

Mock everything, because life is a cruel joke. And all that, right?

 

[Shiranui117]

LSD had/has nothing to do with it.




They didn't make use of any magazines. But yeah, these particular JWs did carry weapons and did carry out a home invasion. You shouldn't make sweeping generalizations like that; it's harmful to society.

Personally, I think these two were just opportunists who took advantage of my partner at the time answering the door.




I'm certain that I'm not suffering from any delusions. And I don't need to see a doctor at the moment. It's kinda condescending of you to suggest that I do.

Pics or it didn't happen

 

[LiveBetterLife]

Pics or it didn't happen

They took all our ****.

 

[sooda]

This is NOT something that we would do.....we have no desire to fool people or to use those means to trick you into taking literature. I'm sorry but I can't accept that any JW would deliberately set out to deceive anyone. We are counseled strongly against any such tactics. We follow the Bible's guidelines on our preaching activity. We strongly value honesty.



This doesn't sound right either. If you request us NOT to call, we have to respect your right to refuse our visits. Anyone who didn't comply with your request should have been reprimanded. And, we don't pin things to the notice board at the Kingdom Hall. We alert the brother in charge of our witnessing activity and he will see to it that all who are on the "do not call list" have their wishes respected. Its his job to see that we don't cause undue animosity. You think we somehow enjoy being on the receiving end of a hostile householder? I assure you we would rather avoid people like you.

I never said we did...I said that if people eat at odd times, we do not deliberately call to disturb people when they are eating a meal.



Again, I do not understand how that happened. It is drummed into us that we are not to call on those who request us not to. If you had a sign saying "NO Jehovah's Witnesses" you might have done better.

We have people come to our door all the time, some wanting to set up solar panels on our rooves...others want to connect us to a better electricity supplier....or to ask for donations to various charities. I receive them all hospitably and even offer them refreshments on a hot day. What is with all the grumpy people who can't find it in themselves to be civil?

These complaints don't seem to me to be genuine because they are completely opposite to what we are instructed to do. No deception, no subterfuge.....what would be the point? You can't deceive people and have them trust you.....

"Rooves"?

What is the plural form of roof - roofs or rooves?
Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questionsrooves
1. The plural of roof is roofs or rooves. "Rooves" is an older form of the word and rarely used these days. Australian children right up to the 1980s, for example, were brought up with the word ...

 

[savagewind]

Why are some people here believing that @LiveBetterLife is telling a false story but haven't come to the conclusion yet that it was his visitors who were false? Or, the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses is being infiltrated by liars, thieves, and perverts. Watch your back @Deeje because bad associations spoil useful habits. If you are in the company with bad people what excuse will you give to save your life?

 

[SomeRandom]

Please watch the video put out by the Australian Government Blood Authority.

It is amusing to me that they call this video "Blood, still saving lives but...there are risks" and then proceed to tell us how dangerous blood transfusions are.....

There are risks? And?
There are risks for removing a rotten tooth. So what? No sensible doctor, no matter how arrogant, will claim that any procedure is without risks. Chemo has risks, should we stop treating cancer too? Like what are you on about? No one says that blood transfusions are 100% safe. Even taking antibiotics could potentially kill you. As can water.

Since it is clear from these clinicians that there is more "morbidity" and "mortality" associated with blood transfusions than in practically any other medical procedure, one has to wonder why more people aren't taking advantage of the low risk alternatives. It's as if they don't even know about them. I wonder who didn't tell them?

I didn't get that from the video.
There are risks and some transfusions are not necessary. Sure. And? The video is literally called BLOOD STILL SAVING LIVES BUT THERE ARE RISKS.

The video doesn't advocate for the nullification of blood transfusions in the slightest. It just cautions against using it as a crutch. Which I agree with. It doesn't say that people should not get blood transfusions. Since we should be always looking to improve patient care.
By the way, my father fought cancer. Without blood transfusions he would have died 10 times over. I had my dad for 10 years longer than I would have with blood transfusions, so I'm probably not the most sympathetic ear to tug.

You are almost correct.....but failed at the commercial aspect. You see, not having blood speeds up recovery, which results in less time in hospital, and there are way less complications, so money is saved...this is why hospitals are now practicing bloodless medicine....it is now considered best practice by many experts in this field. The success rate of patient recovery among JW patients, when compared to the same procedures using blood in other patients, was seen to have a much better outcome. It was just common sense.

If you want a commercial incentive, look no further than the multi-million dollar blood banking industry. That cash cow will not get shut down in a hurry, especially when old, died in the wool medicos refuse to learn the benefits of new procedures.

Source?

Exactly. If it wasn't for those wonderful doctors who care about our sincerely held beliefs, then perhaps none of the alternative procedures would have been developed and many JW's would have lost their lives. God's law on blood is not negotiable for us. So having plasma volume expanders, cell salvage, hemodilution, the administration of EPO, realizing that a low hematocrit level is not necessarily a death sentence....all these things have helped not only Witness patients, but many thousands of others who benefited from non-blood patient management.

And I applaud them. If that is your sincere belief, then no blood should flow into your body that is not your own. I would never dream of arguing otherwise.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Penguin, why do you persist with this pernicious lie?

I have shown you repeatedly that the medical profession themselves are now aware that blood transfusions are NOT the “life saving” treatment that they were once thought to be.

I linked to a video put up on the Australian Government website indicating that blood transfusions were more dangerous than they ever imagined and that clinicians had to change their entrenched attitudes...urgently.

Watch it again....
For Media | National Blood Authority

Bloodless medicine is now spreading all over the world because transfusion is NOT best practice, and those who cling to it and promote it are the real ‘child killers’.

You don’t seem to realise that blood is a multi million dollar business....you think that they are going to let go of that cash cow? Listen to the physicians on that video from around the world who are experts in their field.....listen for the words “morbidity” and “mortality” and if you know what those words mean, ask yourself if you would want such a treatment for yourself or your children.

Your comments are pure ignorance.

Just stop it.

 

[stvdv]

@Deeje keeps on saying "we" but not all Jehovah's Witnesses live up to Deeje's strict standards for herself. I can't believe that she doesn't know that.

I used to be very gullible, always giving people the benefit of the doubt. Then you think others are like you. Took a while to find out others are different

1) I was with my Master and there were maybe 15.000 visitors. When my Master passed, someone nicked a purse. I could not believe it.

2) I was in the Ashram with my Master and there came an Indian man offering to help foreigners with tickets. I trusted him, but he disappeared with my 100$. 1 year later I got a dream of my Master showing me this Indian man walking in the village again. I woke up, went outside, saw him and asked him for the money. He promised he would bring it in the afternoon (he did not have it on him). I trusted him. Of course he left. 1 year later another dream, I saw him again and he said "come with me, I get you your money". Suddenly he ran off. Third year another dream, I just had a shave at a barber shop and saw him. Run out, cream all over my face, grabbed his arm, and did not let go until he gave me the money.

I was lucky, I always got my money back, but now I am much more careful.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Just stop it.

Must be why the Red Cross doesn't collect blood any more. What's that? They do? You mean the poster was posting purely bias confirming articles stripped of context? How about that?

Australian Red Cross Blood Service

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I know you have difficulty understanding, but I also feel it suits you not to. It has nothing to do with anyone's intelligence.....it has everything to with their heart appreciation for the Creator and his creation....something even a child can demonstrate.

Offering your opinion on whether some woman's make up is well applied, or whether a man's suit is well tailored, or if their home is tastefully decorated, is hardly a life or death matter...it might be personal, but it has no bearing on whether they live or die. Your religious beliefs or lack of them, might be personal but if there is a God who requires something of his creation, and we do not deliver it when requested to do so, who do we blame if he lowers the boom on us? Can we plead ignorance?...insanity? Did he make no attempt to inform us? Did we balk at the caliber of the messengers?

If you misunderstand the reason for the warning, or fail to see the danger approaching, then you will never heed the warning and will suffer the consequences. If someone tries to give you the means to avoid the impending disaster, why shake your fist at them? It will be like Noah's day all over again. (Matthew 24:37-39)

The fact is that God wants everyone to be saved from what is coming....but he will not force anyone to worship him either with threats or with displays of his power....all that does is illicit fear. He does not want us to be afraid of him...he wants us to get to know him....and to know him is to love him.....but how many will really bother when there is an enemy at work slandering him at every turn? They will prefer to believe the slander rather than hear the truth, because it suits them to do so.



God has always kept things "imminent", because they are to him. If he was to indicate that thousands of earth years were still to go before he steps in the rectify the whole situation, how many would lose heart and give up? The Bible tells us that "hope is an anchor for the soul".....to keep one's hope bright doesn't take much, especially since we have such a short life on this earth at present. Death overtakes us all but to the dead, time has ceased. They do not have to wait any longer for the promised Kingdom to fix everything that is wrong here on this earth.

When the earth is finally cleansed of all wickedness and those who practice it, then the dead will be restored to life to enjoy what God purposed in the beginning......sinless humankind living in paradise conditions on earth forever. The Bible says that God always finishes what he starts (Isaiah 55:11).....he just doesn't do it in earth time.

Or you might just consider this: infinite power doesn't need your puny help.