sooda
Veteran Member
I recommend learning to use the reply button. It isn't hard.
The Jewish book of Enoch is in my library of sacred texts. What it isn't in, is the Jewish cannon. The only texts in the Jewish Biblical cannon are those that are part of the Tanach. That means, the Book of Enoch is considered a Rabbinic text, rather than a Biblical one.
I think you're setting up a portrayal here that isn't based on reality.
The thing is - and I believe I made that clear in a previous post - there is no prohibition involved here and Judaism hasn't "abandoned" the book of Enoch. We still have it and it has been quoted by Rabbis over the ages.
Considering the above, it's hard to take this [or you at this point] seriously.
Similar to ben Sirach, Enoch isn't considered a vital text in any form of Judaism. It is an interesting text, that's true. It is a Jewish text, that is also true. But it isn't a text vital to Judaism. It's possible to live a completely Jewish life without having ever opened the book.
The citation is correct in that in contains most of the words that Midrash Rabbah uses. But it is incorrect in the way it portrays the recording as a stand alone passage, when its in fact a paraphrase of a discussion that takes place in the Jerusalem Talmud (which you have incorrectly understood as your understanding is based solely on the passage in the Midrash Rabbah). It's also incorrect in that it leads one to think that the Rabbi is saying something different than what he actually is saying.
Your previous citation was not of the opinion of Rabbi Yonah in the name Rabbi Levi, but of bar Kappara. You are either confusing the opinions, or changing your own.
Judging by your repeated assertion as to the nature of the prohibition, I'm guessing that there's an agenda here that requires you to believe that Judaism takes this particular stance, despite my proof to the contrary. So I'm really just posting this for others.
This is not a Mishnah, but a quote from Midrash Rabbah. The point made there is not why may one not inquire about pre-Adamic history. It is permissible to inquire about pre-Adamic history. The passage begins by asking
Why was the world created with [the letter] beth?
The question refers to the first letter of the Book of Genesis, Berei****h. It is essentially asking, what lesson may we derive from G-d's choosing to begin the Torah with the letter beth over any other letter?
From there, Rabbi Yonah explains, that it is to teach us that we may not inquire as to what happened before the Creation. Not before Adam, but what happened before the word Berei****h.
The quote you are citing is again not from the Jewish Mishnah, but from the Jewish Midrash Rabbah.
What Rabbi Yosi bar Chaninah is of the opinion is that it's not respectful to speak about the world having come from tohu. He isn't speaking about the creation in general, just that particular aspect. The opinion cited directly before this one, is Rav who is of the opinion that one may not speak about the creation in order to gain honor.
No one is of the opinion that it's forbidden to inquire into the creation in general, because that would be contradicting a[n actual] Mishnah which states:
One may not expound the act of Creation and the secrets of the beginning of the world before two or more individuals;The implication obviously that it is permitted to do so in front of one individual. And in fact - despite your assertion - there are plenty of Jewish texts that delve into the creation.
I really don't know how you expect me to take you as anything other than a joke. Even the book your quoting from (Midrash, not Mishnah) expounds on the creation. The fact that you're unable or unwilling to accept this is really odd.
Your theories are unfounded because they are based on mistaken assumptions and understandings about what is prohibited in Judaism, as explained above [twice].
It is helpful in giving me the measure of the Christian scholar. Your data is faulty. Both in quality and quantity on this subject. As Christians are wont to do, you have chosen particular passages that you believe prove your opinion, but only because you've ignored all the other passages and texts that strongly disprove your position. So yes, I do think Christian religious historians are jumping to conclusions.
Tumah, the Book of Enoch went missing for 16 centuries until they found it in Ethiopia.