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War As A Means Of Distraction

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
What chemical weapons did the US supply to Iraq? What quantities?
I don't know the quantities of "dual use pesticides" (which can be weaponized).
But in addition to chemical weapons, we also supplied Iraq with anthrax.
We clearly knew of Iraq's plan to use these WMDs against Iran, & even
assisted them with intelligence (the information kind...not the wisdom kind).
Some background....
Michael Dobbs, U.S. Had Key Role in Iraq Buildup Trade in Chemical Arms Allowed Despite Their Use on Iranians, Kurds
Rumsfeld 'helped Iraq get chemical weapons' | Daily Mail Online
US History Of Chemical Weapons Use & Complicity In War Crimes
Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Sorry, I disagree. What happened in 1953 should be left for the history books. In the meantime, the global community is concearned with Irans intent on going nuclear. An obvious no, no...
Said by the guy from the only country ever to have used nuclear weapons in war, who maintains the largest operational nuclear arsenal.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
I don't know the quantities of "dual use pesticides" (which can be weaponized).
But in addition to chemical weapons, we also supplied Iraq with anthrax.
We clearly knew of Iraq's plan to use these WMDs against Iran, & even
assisted them with intelligence (the information kind...not the wisdom kind).
Some background....
Michael Dobbs, U.S. Had Key Role in Iraq Buildup Trade in Chemical Arms Allowed Despite Their Use on Iranians, Kurds
Rumsfeld 'helped Iraq get chemical weapons' | Daily Mail Online
US History Of Chemical Weapons Use & Complicity In War Crimes
Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran

When Saddam gassed all those Kurds at Halabja in the late 1980s the US didn't bat an eye.

  1. DUAL CONTAINMENT: US POLICY IN THE PERSIAN GULF AND A ...
    www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/acsc/97-0306.pdf
    This paper is a critical analysis of the US foreign policy toward Iran and Iraq known as dualcontainment. The objective of dual containment is to isolate these regimes politically, economically, and militarily. This paper evaluates recent American policy directed toward the region in order to place the policy of dual containment in perspective.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
I don't think that's true.. I mean I think we sent Iraq MORE than bio weapons samples and strains.

Dual containment - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_containment
Dual containment was an official United States foreign policy aimed at containing Iraq and Iran, Israel's and the United States' two most important strategic adversaries in the Middle East.

Nothing about chemical and biological weapons in this article.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Said by the guy from the only country ever to have used nuclear weapons in war, who maintains the largest operational nuclear arsenal.

Think of us as the West's pit bull. We only attack when you unleash us. We protect you, it's our duty.

636293373145198404-050217pitbull.jpg
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
When Saddam gassed all those Kurds at Halabja in the late 1980s the US didn't bat an eye.
Ameristanian outrage is highly selective.
War crimes are bad when we dislike the perps.
But they're hunky dory when we & our allies commit them.

And now the Saudis are joining Israel in lobbying that we
wage a preemptive attack on Iran. So much for these
"religions of peace" (Jews, Christians, Muslims) actually
being peaceful, eh.
Saudi paper urges US 'surgical strikes' on Iran
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
I don't know the quantities of "dual use pesticides" (which can be weaponized).
But in addition to chemical weapons, we also supplied Iraq with anthrax.
We clearly knew of Iraq's plan to use these WMDs against Iran, & even
assisted them with intelligence (the information kind...not the wisdom kind).
Some background....
Michael Dobbs, U.S. Had Key Role in Iraq Buildup Trade in Chemical Arms Allowed Despite Their Use on Iranians, Kurds
Rumsfeld 'helped Iraq get chemical weapons' | Daily Mail Online
US History Of Chemical Weapons Use & Complicity In War Crimes
Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran

It is a stretch to say we supplied him with chemical weapons when you can't identify them or the quantity.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Ameristanian outrage is highly selective.
War crimes are bad when we dislike the perps.
But they're hunky dory when we & our allies commit them.

And now the Saudis are joining Israel in lobbying that we
wage a preemptive attack on Iran. So much for these
"religions of peace" (Jews, Christians, Muslims) actually
being peaceful, eh.
Saudi paper urges US 'surgical strikes' on Iran

I never saw that in the Arab News which I read nearly every day.. Israel is working it for sure.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It is a stretch to say we supplied him with chemical weapons when you can't identify them or the quantity.
I'd found more detailed sources in the past.
I thought those would paint an illuminating picture.
The telling thing is that our supplying WMDs comes from
government sources, & our leaders do not deny any of it.
Btw, one source did identify anthrax.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
I'd found more detailed sources in the past.
I thought those would paint an illuminating picture.
The telling thing is that our supplying WMDs comes from
government sources, & our leaders do not deny any of it.
Btw, one source did identify anthrax.

I am not denying that the government was involved. I AM objecting to your characterization that we sold them biological and chemical elements in quantities large enough to be called 'weapons.'
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I am not denying that the government was involved. I AM objecting to your characterization that we sold them biological and chemical elements in quantities large enough to be called 'weapons.'
I cannot find actual quantities shipped from US authorized suppliers.
I have found figures of VX, sarin, mustard gas, etc which Iraq possessed
& used, but since they also manufactured their own chemical weapons,
this sheds no light on how much of what the US supplied via contractor
authorizations.
Ref....
Iraq’s Chemical Warfare Program — Central Intelligence Agency

https://www.counterpunch.org/2002/10/10/iraq-and-chemical-weapons-the-us-connection/
By late 1992, the sales of chemical and biological weapons were revealed. Congressional Records of Senator Riegle’s investigation of the Gulf War Syndrome show that that the US government approved sales of large varieties of chemical and biological materials to Iraq. These included anthrax, components of mustard gas, botulinum toxins (which causes paralysis of the muscles involving swallowing and is often fatal), histoplasma capsulatum (which may cause pneumonia, enlargement of the liver and spleen, anemia, acute inflammatory skin disease marked by tender red nodules), and a host of other nasty chemicals materials.

The larger picture....
GW Bush, having been involved in supplying Iraq with WMDs, was in a
privileged position to know that Iraq had them. This was crucial in his
desire to have us attack Iraq. It's now obvious that turned out poorly.

Regarding Iran's hostility towards & fear of us, they're keenly aware
that we have before & might again will use chemical & biological against
them. Impossible, some might say? Reagan & Bush did it.
Is Trump any better than they are?
Iran Still Haunted By Chemical Weapons Attacks
Excerpted....
Hassan Hassani Sa’di has been dying from chemical weapons for almost 30 years. The Iranian still remembers the moment he realized Iraqi warplanes were dropping more than regular bombs. “I knew,” he says, “because of the smell of garlic.” It was the pungent and telltale aroma of mustard gas.

Death from mustard gas is gruesome; so is survival. It hideously disfigures skin, sears lungs and mucus membranes, and often blinds. Unlike nerve gas, there’s no antidote. Sa’di, then an 18-year-old fighting in the Middle East’s grisliest modern war — the 8-year conflict between Iran and Iraq — survived the Iraqi attack on the strategic Fao Peninsula in 1985. Within hours, his body was badly blistered, and he had gone blind. “The last thing I remember is vomiting green,” he says, during an interview at the Tehran Peace Museum, a facility dedicated to education and the documentation of weapons of mass destruction.

Iran is today the world’s largest laboratory for the study of the effects of chemical weapons, in part because of the sheer numbers of Iranian victims, but also because of a little-studied phenomenon called low-dose exposure. In 1991, a declassified CIA report estimated that Iran suffered more than 50,000 casualties from Iraq’s repeated use of nerve agents and toxic gases in the 1980s. Mustard gas — in dusty, liquid and vapor forms — was used the most during the war. It was packed into bombs and artillery shells, then fired at frontlines and beyond, including at hospitals.

Years after the war, however, Iranian doctors noticed that respiratory diseases with unusual side-symptoms — corneal disintegration, rotting teeth and dementia, a combination synonymous with mustard gas — had started killing off veterans who had not always been on the frontlines. Civilians were also dying.

So in 2000, the government launched a media campaign urging people who had been in certain areas during the war to report for check-ups. The ads didn’t specify why.

The troubling pattern was soon diagnosed as secondary contamination to mustard gas. “We may only have seen the tip of the iceberg. We may not yet have seen the majority of victims,” Dr. Farhad Hashemnezhad told me in 2002. “At least 20 percent of the current patients are civilians who didn’t think they were close enough to be exposed.”

Numbers have since soared from the lingering, and unanticipated, effects of mustard gas. Dr. Shahriar Khateri, Iran’s leading expert on chemical weapons victims, now says 70,000 are registered, many from low-dose exposure that is now killing them.

“We now know that the latency period can be 40 years,” says Khateri, who is unsure of his own fate. Khateri volunteered to fight at age 15 after his brother was killed in the war. He was gassed in 1987 during the battle for southern port of Khorramshahr. After the war, he went to medical school and co-founded the Society for Chemical Weapons Victims Support.

Iranian doctors say the final toll of Iraq’s chemical weapons could ultimately rival the 90,000 who died from toxic gases in World War I.

In the meantime, Iran has struggled to tend to victims. Sa’di has had 8 surgeries to transplant or repair both corneas, but still has to hold his watch to his face, and sunlight is painful. He takes multiple medications to help breathe, but has a hacking cough. He does not work — the state gives him disability allowance — although he volunteers as an occasional docent at the Tehran Peace Museum to tell his story.

In Tehran, chemical weapons victims often end up at Sasan Hospital, a grim facility that had been the American Hospital of Tehran before the 1979 revolution. Abolfazl Afazali is one of 22 patients struggling for life at Sasan when I visit in December. “One of my wishes,” he says, “is to be able to take a deep breath.”

U.S. sanctions have complicated treatment, Iranian doctors say. Humanitarian goods are technically exempt, but international banks have often been unwilling to conduct financial transactions with Iran, even when legal, for fear of repercussions.

Ahmad Zangiabadi represented Iranian victims at the 2013 conference of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, which won the Nobel Peace Prize last year. He is no longer mobile, however. He sleeps sitting upright on the floor of his small apartment because the exertion of lying down and getting up is too much for his lungs. He is kept alive on an Airsep New Life Alert oxygen machine, which pushes oxygen into his lungs and makes a thudding sound with every breath. But he has had increasing trouble getting inhalers made by Spiriva and Glaxo Smith Kline. “Life has become a prison the past four months,” he says.

The lingering impact of a war that ended in a 1988 truce, at a cost of an estimated 1 million Iranian and Iraqi casualties, still defines Iran’s worldview. It has been as important as economic sanctions in pushing Tehran to the negotiating table with the world’s six major powers on its nuclear program. As a result of the war, Iran suffers from “strategic loneliness,” explained Nasser Hadian, a University of Tehran political scientist.

The primary lesson learned, he said, was that Iran had no allies even when it was a victim of weapons banned since World War I by international norms.Tehran felt a sense of isolation and betrayal after the United Nations verified Iraq’s repeated use chemical weapons, but the outside world still almost unanimously sided with Saddam Hussein. Iran’s neighbors aided him. Europeans and Russians sold him arms.

The United States was complicit too. Washington provided Baghdad with intelligence on Iran’s equipment and troops strengths to help Iraq retake the Fao Peninsula in 1988. Iraq made widespread use of chemical weapons to win it back.
 

wandering peacefully

Which way to the woods?
What of our supplying Iraq with WMDs to kill a million Iranians?
The evil we've wrought makes us the greater danger. The best
way to prevent them from getting nukes is to stop creating the
need for them in self defense against the Ameristan-Israel chimera.
We had an agreement. Trump nixed that, & now ramps up a
military threat on top of an economic attack.
This is probably over the top but I believe Trump is becoming our greatest national security threat. Of course the military heads always love a good war. I already heard the call of WMD'''s this morning on the "news". Those crazy fs better not start another war. I cannot believe the rhetoric starting again when we just dumped the mess we made in Iraq.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
This is probably over the top but I believe Trump is becoming our greatest national security threat. Of course the military heads always love a good war. I already heard the call of WMD'''s this morning on the "news". Those crazy fs better not start another war. I cannot believe the rhetoric starting again when we just dumped the mess we made in Iraq.
Granted, Trump has always been a loose cannon.
But I don't see major objections from Congress.
They too have a history of war lust & inhumanity.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Granted, Trump has always been a loose cannon.
But I don't see major objections from Congress.
They too have a history of war lust & inhumanity.

Isn't it true though that Iran just threatened to use our carriers as "targets"..? Unless I'm misinformed, all this seems to be in preperation for Iran attacking us.

...And if they don't, then no problems in the near future. But I don't watch the news, and I havent checked my online news sources lately.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Isn't it true though that Iran just threatened to use our carriers as "targets"..? Unless I'm misinformed, all this seems to be in preperation for Iran attacking us.
Are their threats justification for our attacking them?
If so, would our threats be justification for their attacking us?

I'm pointing out the fallacy that attacking another country
because of threats is a recipe for endless needless war.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Are their threats justification for our attacking them?
If so, would our threats be justification for their attacking us?

I'm pointing out the fallacy that attacking another country
because of threats is a recipe for endless needless war.

Let me ask you this... If they shot rockets and blew up one or two of our carriers, killing Americans, like they said they wanted to do, what would you suggest we do after that?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Let me ask you this... If they shot rockets and blew up one or two of our carriers, killing Americans, like they said they wanted to do, what would you suggest we do after that?
You won't like my answer.
I'd still want to reinstate the nuclear deal, & negotiate peace.
Killing more people wouldn't bring us back from any loss.

Let me ask you something....
If we shot down another Iranian civilian airliner, killing Iranians,
as we did before, what would you suggest they do after that?
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
You won't like my answer.
I'd still want to reinstate the nuclear deal, & negotiate peace.
Killing more people wouldn't bring us back from any loss.

Let me ask you something....
If we shot down another Iranian civilian airliner, killing Iranians,
as we did before, what would you suggest they do after that?

You're nicer than me, Revoltingest. I envy you for that. But any act of kindness we offer them will be seen as weakness, I'm sure of it. Just like when they captured and paraded our soldiers around a few years ago and we did nothing... Now they're threatening to send rockets.

...If we shot down an airliner of theirs, purposely, which we never would even joke about, I would suggest Iran and other nations recognize our military leaders as terrorists, and ban them from all global partnerships and talks.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
You're nicer than me, Revoltingest. I envy you for that. But any act of kindness we offer them will be seen as weakness, I'm sure of it. Just like when they captured and paraded our soldiers around a few years ago and we did nothing... Now they're threatening to send rockets.
Nice? Kind?
Nah, I don't care about all these ignorant foreigners & sad eyed immigrants.
They can all die a miserable death for all I care.
But I do care that our foreign policy be rational, objective, selfish, fair, just, & free
of hypocrisy & religious hostilities (all that Jew & Christian vs the Muslim stuff).
Achieving that will give us peace & a stronger economy.
...If we shot down an airliner of theirs, purposely, which we never would even joke about, I would suggest Iran and other nations recognize our military leaders as terrorists, and ban them from all global partnerships and talks.
A double standard, perhaps?
If they attack us, we'll obliterate them?
But if we attack them, we should be sternly chided by other nations.
 
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