Birmingham Muslims pull their kids out of LGBT-inclusive lessons

[sooda]

How do you propose explaining to kids that some kids have two parents of the same gender without bringing sexual orientation into it? Seriously? I'm genuinely trying to come up with a way here and can't see how you could. Especially since the first question 8 year olds like to ask when discovering a new concept is "why?"

So please, purely as thought experiment, how would you explain two same gender parents to an 8 year old class without mentioning sexual orientation?

Seems simple enough to me. When you were 8 or 10 were you made aware that the bond between your parents was also sexual?

 

[sooda]

Well, it is only you who used the word, I talked constantly about relationships and family.

No.. YOU brought it up. Not I.

 

[Rival]

Seems simple enough to me. When you were 8 or 10 were you made aware that the bond between your parents was also sexual?

I was aware of it by age 6 and of gay people by about age 7 or 8.

 

[icehorse]

How do you propose explaining to kids that some kids have two parents of the same gender without bringing sexual orientation into it? Seriously? I'm genuinely trying to come up with a way here and can't see how you could. Especially since the first question 8 year olds like to ask when discovering a new concept is "why?"

So please, purely as thought experiment, how would you explain two same gender parents to an 8 year old class without mentioning sexual orientation?

By talking about two people loving each other?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Seems simple enough to me. When you were 8 or 10 were you made aware that the bond between your parents was also sexual?

Yep. "Where did I come from" was a regular in the bedtime storybook roster. And even if it weren't, having siblings and observing a pregnant mother is a pretty common childhood experience. I'm pretty confident most 8 year olds have at least some idea that their parents' relationship is of a sexual nature, even if the specifics aren't clear.

So, if it's simple for you, go ahead:

"Good morning class, today we're talking about..."

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

By talking about two people loving each other?

"Billy has two Mums who love each other just like Tommy has a Mum and a Dad who love each other"?

Not trying to be obtuse, but that seems like a fairly clear reference to sexual orientation to me.

 

[icehorse]

You can certainly read political agendas into the Qur'an and Hadith. But lots of Muslims choose not to. And when a Muslim expresses a desire to live under Shariah, that doesn't necessarily mean the full whammy. I'm not sure many Muslims really understand what Shariah would actually entail. But even if we grant that about half the world's Muslims do mean the full whammy, that leaves half who wouldn't want to live under Shariah, which is a pretty big number of Muslims with different ideas about what it means to be a Muslim.

It would be extremely helpful to the whole world if Muslims openly declared denominations or sects or whatever, that specifically addressed such crucial differences in beliefs. So for example, it would be fantastic if there was a "non-Sharia" denomination of Islam that individuals could declare themselves a part of.

 

[sooda]

Yep. "Where did I come from" was a regular in the bedtime storybook roster. And even if it weren't, having siblings and observing a pregnant mother is a pretty common childhood experience. I'm pretty confident most 8 year olds have at least some idea that their parents' relationship is of a sexual nature, even if the specifics aren't clear.

So, if it's simple for you, go ahead:

"Good morning class, today we're talking about..."

The answer I got at age five was God put the baby in Mom's tummy.

If this is presented to conservative parents as Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Transgender, I just think you'll get a lot of pushback.

 

[sooda]

It would be extremely helpful to the whole world if Muslims openly declared denominations or sects or whatever, that specifically addressed such crucial differences in beliefs. So for example, it would be fantastic if there was a "non-Sharia" denomination of Islam that individuals could declare themselves a part of.

Do you know what Sharia means?

 

[icehorse]

"Billy has two Mums who love each other just like Tommy has a Mum and a Dad who love each other"?

Not trying to be obtuse, but that seems like a fairly clear reference to sexual orientation to me.

To an adult, sure. But I would guess that until kids are 10 or 12, they wouldn't make that connection. And as other posters have mentioned, kids ARE in a world in which same-sex couples are common.

 

[Altfish]

No.. YOU brought it up. Not I.

I give up, I presume you are referring to my use of the word 'Heterosexual'

You definitely are obsessed with sex.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

It would be extremely helpful to the whole world if Muslims openly declared denominations or sects or whatever, that specifically addressed such crucial differences in beliefs. So for example, it would be fantastic if there was a "non-Sharia" denomination of Islam that individuals could declare themselves a part of.

Is there a non-canon law Christian sect?

 

[icehorse]

Do you know what Sharia means?

Short answer: Islamic law.

Why do you ask? What do you think I'm missing?

 

[Altfish]

"Billy has two Mums who love each other just like Tommy has a Mum and a Dad who love each other"?

Not trying to be obtuse, but that seems like a fairly clear reference to sexual orientation to me.

Sexual orientation - yes
Sex - no

 

[icehorse]

Is there a non-canon law Christian sect?

I'm pretty sure the Unity Church would fall into that category. I would guess that other modern, liberal denominations do as well.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

To an adult, sure. But I would guess that until kids are 10 or 12, they wouldn't make that connection.

If you say so. What language are they being exposed to that is more suggestive than what I just said? I doubt very much you'd find an 8 year old in any western country who wouldn't understand that such relationships are sexual, in as far as they understand sex. I guess I just don't see what we're shielding them from.

And as other posters have mentioned, kids ARE in a world in which same-sex couples are common.

Well... you kinda can't have it both ways. If it's common, why shouldn't it be addressed as other common forms of relationship are?

 

[Altfish]

The answer I got at age five was God put the baby in Mom's tummy.

If this is presented to conservative parents as Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Transgender, I just think you'll get a lot of pushback.

You'd get push back from me too. It is just plain wrong.
You might as well teach them about the stork

 

[sooda]

You'd get push back from me too. It is just plain wrong.
You might as well teach them about the stork

You teach children as much as they need to know at a given age. If they want to know more. They will tell you.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

You teach children as much as they need to know at a given age. If they want to know more. They will tell you.

There is "teaching them what they need to know" and "teaching them false or misleading information because it's less challenging to the those teaching it". It's important not to mistake them.

 

[Shad]

A bit young to learn that same-sex couples exist (and raise children)? Not at all. These kids will probably be experiencing this already, or they will later as they progress through their education. It's important to help them understand that this is a fact of life and is not inherently harmful.

Toss in entertainment outside of the education system. LGBT characters have increased dramatically since the 70s and 80s in children shows. So chances are a child with a TV and computer will see a gay character early in life.

List of animated works with LGBT characters - Wikipedia